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Best Amp for being mic’d up?


payton.piglia

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Hey guys, I don’t know if this is the right section to post this in, but I am looking at either a blackstar ht studio 20 combo or blackstar ht club 40 combo. I have a JCM800 2203 with a 2x12 cab. I relieved that is too big for some of the venues I will be playing. Everything is mic’d up & I want to try to get the most out of the amp. I have listened to both amps & like both, but I don’t know which one will be more beneficial, I am afraid the 40 will still be too loud, but I want more control out of the amp as well. Can someone with more gigging experience help me out with this situation. Please and thank you guys in advance for the responses.

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Hey guys' date=' I don’t know if this is the right section to post this in, but I am looking at either a blackstar ht studio 20 combo or blackstar ht club 40 combo. I have a JCM800 2203 with a 2x12 cab. I relieved that is too big for some of the venues I will be playing. Everything is mic’d up & I want to try to get the most out of the amp. I have listened to both amps & like both, but I don’t know which one will be more beneficial, I am afraid the 40 will still be too loud, but I want more control out of the amp as well. Can someone with more gigging experience help me out with this situation. Please and thank you guys in advance for the responses.[/quote']

 

40 watts may be too much. I have a DR Z Maz 18 that is pretty damn loud.

 

I'd order one through MF or Sweetwater. They have a nice return policy if you need the bigger one.

All you need to do s hear yourself and compete with the drummer..

 

 

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My 18 watt Marshall doesn't get used without the weber MiniMass. OP' date=' if you are going to mic I would NEVER buy a 40 watt amp. I would be looking at a 15 watt or less probably. [/quote']

Blackstar doesn't make a 15 Watter but there's a 10 Watt anniversary model. It should be okay miked and if not the OP can always swap out the stock Seventy 80 for something with higher sensitivity.

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Thank you guys for the swift reply & great info. Mikeo, I will try to get with the drummer & see if we could meet up soon & try it out & see what works. I can play my JCM800 at low volumes but I want an amp I can get the most out of it. Something I can have the most head room & best possible tone as well. The Blackstar amps have a really nice sound, if anyone has any other amp that they want to throw out there, I am going to go to guitar center this weekend & play with a few & see what is best. I am trying to find a sound very similar to the JCM800 just in a small amp for the small venues.

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I'd need to ask if you are using pedals for your drive tones and running the amp clean or are you cranking the amp to get saturated tones from the amp itself.

 

If you're cranking the amp then a lower wattage amp should do the job. If you use pedals then a louder amp simply turned down will do the job too.

 

Its important to know what kind of recording setup you have. A 40W amp should allow playing live with a drummer and being heard. If the amp has a master volume and gain channel it may still be fine for recording. It does depend on you studio setup and gear used and techniques used to record things.

 

Having a loud amp in the same room as your recording gear can cause tracking issues. Its the decibel level not the wattage that causes the problems. An amp cranked loud will bleed through most headphones and be heard as muffled tones added to what you're already hearing from the mic. The headphone bleed will make you think you have more low end then you actually do so you wind up dialing the bass down and wind up with thin sounding tracks.

 

It can also make it difficult to hear previously recorded tracks which means cranking the headphones up and then you're dealing with fatigued ears and gain staging mistakes tracking. Ideally you want to always monitor at the industry standard of 83dB which is about as loud as most people watch TV. You can be heard talking over it with a minimal raised voice.

 

Your amp can be louder but the bleed through headphones forces you to make bad tracking decisions and even though you may be close micing the reflections captured by a mic don't help.

 

In a pro studio where you have a separate room for the recording gear and performers gear an engineer can tweak the sound he's hearing in isolation. If its all in the same room then using an iso cab over the amp and mic can help with a loud amp. The louder amp usually has the benefit of producing rich bass tones and crystal clean guitar chords at lower volumes. I typically use them for rhythm parts

 

Low wattage tube amps can be great for leads and power cords when cranked up because you get compression from the power tube, transformer and speaker. The problem with most small practice amps is the amps nor the speakers sound very good. I've used amps with 8" speakers and they can be OK for some lead guitar parts but chords sound really thin. Personally I prefer something with at least a 10" speaker so it will sound good for leads or chords and blend into a mix without using gobs of EQ to try and fix things.

 

The amp itself can be a single ended tube amp or low wattage push pull. 10W is plenty. Even 1W will do so long as the quality is great and background noise is low. Mics have all the gain in the world. You can crank them up to hear a pin drop so loudness isn't what's important, its the quality of the sound at any given volume level. You can use a power soak device on a louder amp but your tone and gain staging are affected.

 

My best advice is for playing live, and amp in the 30/50W range is usually ideal playing with a live drummer doing rock music. if you have a good PA and mic the amp you can go lower. For recording you ideally want a lower wattage amp that sounds rally good at lower volumes. What I mean by really good does not include the use of pedals or gain channels to synthesize the sound of a loud amp, I mean a low wattage tube amp with a low wattage speaker cranked up to get the preamp to overdrive the power amp and added speaker saturation.

 

I will say those kinds of amps are in high demand and are quite expensive. Don't ask me why. I been an electronic tech all my life and know single ended class A amps are one of the least expensive amps to build, but only a handful of them are currently being made. Luckily there enough where you don't have to dig too deep.

 

You can find a 5W for under $200 which will do the job very well. Monoprice makes a 5W combo for $89 Its only got an 8" speaker but you could plug it into something larger. They also make an improved 15W for $179 that comes with a 12" Celestion which would be ideal for my needs since I have a fairly good studio with decent isolation. https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=611815&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIucLqqaCC2QIVQ7XACh1sYA1uEAQYBSABEgLlLfD_BwE Jet city makes a 5W head for under $200 as do several others.

 

Like I said, many have small 8's. If you shop for 8" speakers you'll see the variety and specs on them are extremely limited. On the other hand, a 5W single ended tube am pushing a low wattage alnico can put you in recording heaven, and that's before you add any additional pedals to enhance what you already have.

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Thank you guys for the swift reply & great info. Mikeo' date=' I will try to get with the drummer & see if we could meet up soon & try it out & see what works. I can play my JCM800 at low volumes but I want an amp I can get the most out of it. Something I can have the most head room & best possible tone as well. The Blackstar amps have a really nice sound, if anyone has any other amp that they want to throw out there, I am going to go to guitar center this weekend & play with a few & see what is best. I am trying to find a sound very similar to the JCM800 just in a small amp for the small venues.[/quote']

 

Hey if money is not an issue. I have seen em on stage, but have not played through one.

They have power scaling on them.

 

You'd push the front end with pedals.

 

In any case Black star makes a great sounding amp for the coin.

 

 

 

[video=youtube;mvPFTq0qA_4]

 

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Alright, don’t mean to go on a rig rundown. But I have a Boss Tu-3W, Rocktron Talkbox, Dunlop Slash Wah, MXR Phase 90, MXR Dyna Comp, CAE Boost/Line Driver, Boss Harmonist, Boss Super Chorus, Boss DD-7 Delay, & Dunlop Volume Pedal. I use the Boost & Dyna Comp the most when playing. Usually when I play the JCM800 in my room its usually on 1 & it has a nice crunch but I kicked the dyna comp & boost on to get more out of the amp

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Anything in the 5-15W range should do a great job for you if it's miked up. Anything much larger than that will be overkill, just like your JCM800. Fortunately there are a ton of different amps in that wattage range for you to select from - all you need to do is find the one you like the sound of the most, and you're all set. :)

 

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I have and gig with a HT20, and I think, given your predilection for Marshall heads, this amp will get you into the Marshall sound, as well as a number of others. At 20W it will keep up with an 'intelligent' drummer, and both channels have their own 'thang'. That said, I also gig with a Vox NightTrain 15W, Fender Blues Juniors, a Crate V20 [using a pedalboard]...so there are plenty of amps out there that will get you where you want to be as far a 'not too loud' [although, a 100W head isn't 6+ times louder than a 15W or 5 times louder than a 20W]. Frankly, the 100W heads were developed in a bygone era, when PAs were crap...not the case in the 21st century, so it may be time to kick your dinosaur JCM back to the Jurrassic era, and get a combo that mics up well. You can spend a lot of dinero on boutique amps, too...Carr, Swart, Bad Cat, Jaguar, Top Hat, Dr. Z and so on...

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. . . there are plenty of amps out there that will get you where you want to be as far a 'not too loud' [although' date= a 100W head isn't 6+ times louder than a 15W or 5 times louder than a 20W]. . . .

15:100 is a bit more than 8 dB, close to what the ear perceives as "twice as loud" (10 dB). 20:100 is about 7 dB. You can often gain 3 dB or more just by swapping speakers.

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The fact that you have and like a JCM800 indicates you like the Marshall sound. The DSL series of combo amps includes models like the DSL15C (15 Watts 1X12)' date=' DSL20CR (20 Watts 1X12), and DSL40 (40 Watts 1X12). Pricing will be $600-700.[/quote']

 

 

Good recommendations IMO. Any of those should be plenty loud enough for a miked-up situation. Even a Class 5 running flat out can hit upwards of 107dB SPL @ 2m.

 

http://www.harmonycentral.com/expert-reviews/marshall-class-5-1x10-all-tube-5w-guitar-amp

 

 

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i bought a Dr Z M-12 and it’s probably the last amp I’ll ever get. I love it. And at 12 watts, I’m able to make it work nicely in a small room yet I’ve played gigs to 2000+ people with no issues. I learned a long time ago to let the sound guy and the PA do their jobs. No need for crazy loud stage volumes.

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i bought a Dr Z M-12 and it’s probably the last amp I’ll ever get. I love it. And at 12 watts' date=' I’m able to make it work nicely in a small room yet I’ve played gigs to 2000+ people with no issues. I learned a long time ago to let the sound guy and the PA do their jobs. No need for crazy loud stage volumes. [/quote']

 

Excellent choice, and nice building block, as it take pedals very well.

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Ok guys, I went to guitar center today and played on a couple of amps. I don't know if it was me, but I found that every amp under the 30 watt mark just sounded very thin. The only amps that got me close to the well rounded sound of my JCM800 were the DSL40C and the HT Club 40 with the club 40 being a more pleasant sound surprisingly. I have a DSL100 head as well and the cleans are nice and the Lead 1 channel is very nice but I don't use the crunch or lead 2 channel at all. When playing the DSL40, to me it just kind of sounded a little thin & just didn't match up to the Club 40. I am definitely going to play those 2 more tomorrow when I go back to GC, but would the 40 watt amps be over kill for miking or can I make the 20 watt series sound less thin by changing out the speakers? I have been told that the speakers in the lower watt amps are very cheap and not good.

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Both the HT20 and HT40 are spec'ed as having a 12" Celestion speaker. I'm reasonably sure the HT40 uses a Seventy 80 while the HT20 uses a Rocket 50. The HT5 uses a Blackstar branded speaker, which may be where the "cheap speakers" idea comes from. Anyway, the Seventy 80 has higher sensitivity than the Rocket 50 by a full 3 dB, which means comparing the two is like comparing a 10 Watt amp with a 40 Watt amp. A new Seventy 80 will cost you about $69 shipped.

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If your goal is to get great recordings that have that big Marshall tone, You don't even need an amp for that. With the new amp modeling effects units available today, you can Easily match anything a miced amp provide now. If it were 5~10 years ago it would be tougher. I have many older rack preamps dating back to the 80's which I've used for DI recording. What they lacked was good speaker cab emulation, otherwise, electronically there weren't any different then the front end of an amp. Some have primitive EQ tricks for mimicking cabs, but its only been in the last few years when these newer generation units have included cab impulses which really makes the differences.

 

You can also buy cab impulse units for use with older generation units. It really makes a big difference too.

 

As far as amps go. I suggest you check to see if that Marshall you were looking at has a Speaker Emulated line out for recording. My Marshall Valvestate has it and I've compared its signal against the miced 1960 cab running 75W Celestion Creamback's which sounds fabulous live. The Direct signal in fact sounded better then the miced cab because there wasn't any EQ losses/sucking or room bleed from the mic. I could still play loud and get the strings to self sustain but the actual recording was stellar. I typically use that Marshall setup along with another tube amp rig miced up on a cab loaded with 10" alnico speakers so I have a variety of tones to work with mixing.

 

Again, many of these new multi effect units with amp/cab modeling can easily match any miced cab now. You simply have to learn how to dial up realistic miced cab tones. That alone is a bit challenging, but very doable. Its in fact it can be allot easier then setting up a room so it had ideal acoustic for micing, plus the sound wont simply be a one trick pony like an amp is. You can dial up any amp/cab you want instead of relying on a single amp, single cab for you sound.

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I like the sound of the vintage 30s. How does that compare with the other speakers? I tried looking at specs but it was like reading latin. Would it be more benefical for me to buy the 40 watt amp or buy the 20 watt amp & change the speakers?

You're probably looking at spending $700 or so for the HT40 vs. $550 or so for the HT20 plus $145 for a Vintage 30. In other words, you'll break even or maybe come out a little ahead if you can sell the stock speaker, except Rocket 50's in new condition sell for as little as $10 or $20. Sure, the Vintage 30 is a better speaker than the Seventy 80 that's in the HT40 but you already like the HT40 as is. You might as well buy the HT40 you know you like as opposed to gambling on trying to make an amp you don't like sound the way you want.

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