Wasn't digging my Mark V tonight....

[steveanders86-f.7Ax]

Hey all,

I played my Mark V tonight and just wasn't jiving with it. I couldn't get behind the clean tone; I couldn't get it to warm up. It was very brittle sounding to my ears. The 2nd channel I couldn't get along with either. I seemed to not be able to dial in the correct amount of bass; either I was all bass and I was getting weird breakup or there was not enough bass and it sounded thin. Channel 3 sounded cool on the Mark IV setting and the GEQ on. Pretty friggin metal especially with the RGA in drop B with Aftermaths in it and clean boosted. Maybe my ears are broken in my old age.

 

I was running the head through an orange 2x12 (16ohm) using the 8ohm output on my head. Could that be doing anything to the tone? I will be running the head through the proper mesa 4x12 next chance I get down the jam-spot. I was using my RGA121 with BK Aftermaths and my Charvel with SD JB/'59 while playing through the amp tonight.

 

I'm going to give it some more time; any recommendations are always welcome. I'd love to learn to dial in this amp and I know trying for a few hours it isn't going to get it perfect but I feel like I should be able to dial in a tone I like in 3 or 4 hours. In the meantime I bought a 5150 iii because I know I like that amp a lot. I have loved playing through the 5150 iii every time I plug into one. If I can't get on board with the mark V it may go up for sale; we'll see.

 

An aside: I have always played the 5150 iii's with their stock tubes in them but I'm curious what you guys (who play them) are putting in them and thoughts on what is working and what is not.

 

Thanks for reading!

 

-Steve

[WRGKMC]

If you've gotten good tones from it before then sometimes its simply the way everyone's playing together, the audience, the room acoustics or just you having a bad night that keeps you from getting into the groove. From what I understand Mesa amps can also be difficult to dial up decent tones and by your post it sounds like its the first time you've used that cab so you have to consider the speakers being used and the cab size.

 

Different speakers no doubt will affect the tones, and I learned long ago after blowing up a few heads never to run a head at the wrong impedance, especially tube heads run at higher then normal impedance because it cooks the tubes and wears them out prematurely. The most I may vary on my old Bassman is switching between a 4 or 8 ohm cab, The head is rated for 4 ohms and 8 is only 4 ohm difference which is safe. I know 16 blows the screen resistors. I've done it on that head.

 

On other amps that have selectable impedances like the Marshall Plexi's and others, and especially amps with high bias levels designed to saturate, I'd never run them too high. I started out in the electronic business repairing amps for a living and I cant count the numbers of times customers say "I've done that before and never had a problem" That's like saying you've eaten steak and eggs 3 times a day and never had a heart attack. I'm afraid electronics aren't as simple as many people think they are. They have a lifecycle which can be shortened.

 

Tubes are biased to create an ideal magnetic field in the output transformer. This primary coils magnetic field expands and collapses through the transformers core that conducts this magnetic field through the secondary coil. A generator works by passing a magnetic field through a coil of wire. The lines of force motion generate a moving current in the wires.

 

When the Magnetic field in the transformers primary coil rises and falls it generates a current in the secondary coil which rises and falls sending current to the speakers voice coil which rises and falls producing an electromagnetic field with attracts and repels the speakers permanent magnet forcing the voice coil to move in and out and push air like a piston.

 

With the correct load you have a balanced transmission of power. Lets us a mechanical analogy that uses the same physics and formulas as electronics that demonstrates what happens when changes are made.

 

An automobile has an engine (Power tubes) transmission (output transformer) and tires (speaker) If you put larger tires on the car the tires (lower impedance) it requires more torque to get them spinning. This puts a greater load on the transmission and engine and makes them work harder to get them turning (and harder to stop once they are turning).

 

If you put smaller tires they have less resistance (higher impedance) to the transmission and engine turning. These have great torque at low speeds but trying to get the car up to highway speed the engines RPM's are much too high. you aren't pushing enough air through the radiator to cool it and the High RPM's burn the engine up prematurely.

 

This is what's happening to the tubes when you use high impedances, there isn't enough inductive pushback from the tires (speaker) and you wind up burning the tubes up.

 

You may not blow them right away. It can take months for the tubes to fatigue enough to blow prematurely depending on the amp and tubes used, but it does occur. I simply cant predict when and this is where all the disbelief begins and the lame excuses "I've done that before and never had a problem" come in.

 

Personally I could care less if someone abuses their gear. Someone in my profession will eventually have to provide the parts and another will be paid to fix it so this keeps people in my industry employed so the more ignorant the end user, the better my paycheck. Thing is I'm also a musician and know how tough the business is. A musicians gear is his livelihood so I do share a brotherhood there and try to be my brothers keeper.

 

I should add the tone of many amps do suffer when the amp is running at the wrong impedance. It does have a number of factors like the Q of the transformer coils but the general symptoms are mild at first and can be hard to detect with the ears. Generally the kick of the speakers is less at the same volume level so you turn up and push the power tubes with a stronger preamp signal which makes the tubes work harder to get the same volume level. since the preamps tone stack is tuned to work along a specific amplification curve you change your EQ settings to compensate and wind up with a different sound then you're used to.

 

In a nut shell, the differences are mild enough to have you second guessing. The amp doesn't feel the same and you know it by the way your guitar strings respond. Solution is simple. Quit the abuse as soon as possible, get your tone back and prevent long term damage. period.

[1001gear]

I use a TS 9 or a Digitech SC2 to shelve the lumpy bass on my Boogie stuff. Otherwise I pick treblier or lump it.

[steveanders86-f.7Ax]

If you've gotten good tones from it before then sometimes its simply the way everyone's playing together' date=' the audience, the room acoustics or just you having a bad night that keeps you from getting into the groove. From what I understand Mesa amps can also be difficult to dial up decent tones and by your post it sounds like its the first time you've used that cab so you have to consider the speakers being used and the cab size.[/quote']

 

 

I didn't make it clear but this was the first time I had a chance to plug it in and play the amp aside from a quick 5 minute test to make sure it worked.

 

[steveanders86-f.7Ax]

If you've gotten good tones from it before then sometimes its simply the way everyone's playing together, the audience, the room acoustics or just you having a bad night that keeps you from getting into the groove. From what I understand Mesa amps can also be difficult to dial up decent tones and by your post it sounds like its the first time you've used that cab so you have to consider the speakers being used and the cab size.

 

Different speakers no doubt will affect the tones, and I learned long ago after blowing up a few heads never to run a head at the wrong impedance, especially tube heads run at higher then normal impedance because it cooks the tubes and wears them out prematurely. The most I may vary on my old Bassman is switching between a 4 or 8 ohm cab, The head is rated for 4 ohms and 8 is only 4 ohm difference which is safe. I know 16 blows the screen resistors. I've done it on that head.

 

On other amps that have selectable impedances like the Marshall Plexi's and others, and especially amps with high bias levels designed to saturate, I'd never run them too high. I started out in the electronic business repairing amps for a living and I cant count the numbers of times customers say "I've done that before and never had a problem" That's like saying you've eaten steak and eggs 3 times a day and never had a heart attack. I'm afraid electronics aren't as simple as many people think they are. They have a lifecycle which can be shortened.

 

Tubes are biased to create an ideal magnetic field in the output transformer. This primary coils magnetic field expands and collapses through the transformers core that conducts this magnetic field through the secondary coil. A generator works by passing a magnetic field through a coil of wire. The lines of force motion generate a moving current in the wires.

 

When the Magnetic field in the transformers primary coil rises and falls it generates a current in the secondary coil which rises and falls sending current to the speakers voice coil which rises and falls producing an electromagnetic field with attracts and repels the speakers permanent magnet forcing the voice coil to move in and out and push air like a piston.

 

With the correct load you have a balanced transmission of power. Lets us a mechanical analogy that uses the same physics and formulas as electronics that demonstrates what happens when changes are made.

 

An automobile has an engine (Power tubes) transmission (output transformer) and tires (speaker) If you put larger tires on the car the tires (lower impedance) it requires more torque to get them spinning. This puts a greater load on the transmission and engine and makes them work harder to get them turning (and harder to stop once they are turning).

 

If you put smaller tires they have less resistance (higher impedance) to the transmission and engine turning. These have great torque at low speeds but trying to get the car up to highway speed the engines RPM's are much too high. you aren't pushing enough air through the radiator to cool it and the High RPM's burn the engine up prematurely.

 

This is what's happening to the tubes when you use high impedances, there isn't enough inductive pushback from the tires (speaker) and you wind up burning the tubes up.

 

You may not blow them right away. It can take months for the tubes to fatigue enough to blow prematurely depending on the amp and tubes used, but it does occur. I simply cant predict when and this is where all the disbelief begins and the lame excuses "I've done that before and never had a problem" come in.

 

Personally I could care less if someone abuses their gear. Someone in my profession will eventually have to provide the parts and another will be paid to fix it so this keeps people in my industry employed so the more ignorant the end user, the better my paycheck. Thing is I'm also a musician and know how tough the business is. A musicians gear is his livelihood so I do share a brotherhood there and try to be my brothers keeper.

 

I should add the tone of many amps do suffer when the amp is running at the wrong impedance. It does have a number of factors like the Q of the transformer coils but the general symptoms are mild at first and can be hard to detect with the ears. Generally the kick of the speakers is less at the same volume level so you turn up and push the power tubes with a stronger preamp signal which makes the tubes work harder to get the same volume level. since the preamps tone stack is tuned to work along a specific amplification curve you change your EQ settings to compensate and wind up with a different sound then you're used to.

 

In a nut shell, the differences are mild enough to have you second guessing. The amp doesn't feel the same and you know it by the way your guitar strings respond. Solution is simple. Quit the abuse as soon as possible, get your tone back and prevent long term damage. period.

 

This was very informative! Thank you!

[DeepEnd]

The manual for your Mark V says connecting a 16 Ohm load to the 8 Ohm output is fine since it doesn't have a 16 Ohm output. They made the amp and I'd trust them to know what they're talking about. Take some time playing with the EQ controls and see if you can find a sound that works for you. Play the amp at performing volume so you hear what you'll hear live. Both the Orange 2X12 and the Mesa standard 4X12 have Celestion Vintage 30s installed so I doubt you'd hear much difference switching cabs.