Members Steve2112 Posted August 16, 2014 Members Share Posted August 16, 2014 The "gain" knob just goes from 0 to 10...what good is that? This device helps me dial in the precise amount: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted August 17, 2014 Members Share Posted August 17, 2014 I use a couple of these... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted August 17, 2014 Members Share Posted August 17, 2014 I use a couple of these... Me too. I'm mostly an acoustic player but I use the "sounds about right" method for distortion, reverb, EQ, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AJ6stringsting Posted August 17, 2014 Members Share Posted August 17, 2014 Some pickups, usually color a guitars tone or not , to a certain point. I have over 10 guitars and each one has a different personality due to different pots, caps, bridges ( Tremolo or non-tremolo), pickups and different woods in the guitars. Those factors affect the tonal projection of the guitar and that is even before the signal goes into the effects or amp.That's the beauty of our six string friends, each one has something special and different to offer to our playing and ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted August 18, 2014 Members Share Posted August 18, 2014 I take two (or more) guitars to a gig now. I started doing it so I would have a spare but now I find that if things are not quite right I can switch guitars and change the feel of the performance. Even if I switch to a different tele or one strat for another, the difference can seem quite profound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted August 18, 2014 Members Share Posted August 18, 2014 The amount of distortion varied depending on the pickups and music type. My live rig has at least a half dozen types of drive and I could have many more if I had the space. I do adjust the output levels for recording purposes however. I have a DB meter I can place in front of an amp then tweak the levels so they match the clean/bypassed volume levels. This helps mixing music when you don't have big dips or jumps in volume when you turn a box on. You would do those kinds of volume increases as needed mixing. Once you get a good baseline going you can always tweak levels as needed based on the ears "perceived" volume levels which can be much different than actual decibel levels. ears are most sensitive to Frequencies around 1~3Khz which is your normal speaking voice. Bass an treble frequencies may need to by hyped to be heard properly and this may make the actual DB levels louder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted August 18, 2014 Members Share Posted August 18, 2014 The amount of distortion varied depending on the pickups and music type. My live rig has at least a half dozen types of drive and I could have many more if I had the space. . . . . . . Bass an treble frequencies may need to by hyped to be heard properly and this may make the actual DB levels louder. Nice to know but the topic is distortion not levels. For that, I suspect most of us use our ears. For example, the "Overdrive" channel on my Roland amp is--to me--virtually useless. It's completely overboard. I prefer to use the dual volume controls to achieve the "right" amount of overdrive, according to my ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AJ6stringsting Posted August 19, 2014 Members Share Posted August 19, 2014 I've got a complex rig of older Digitech gear : the 2112, RP-12 and RP-1.The RP-12 ( 128 presets) handles the Distortion or Overdrive and is the controler, with very light use of delay, reverb and other modulation, the RP-1 (75 presets) handles the modulation end of things and the 2112 (100 amp sims) does all the Fender, Marshall, Carvin, VHT, Soldano, Orange and Mesa-Boogie amp simulations that I need. I have a Control One board too, to handle changes needed in amp simulations in my Digitech 2112 unit.My rig is as sensitive as any of my tube amps. Especial with two VHT Valvulator's in my effects board.I play Metal, Blues, Thrash and Classic Rock and my gear gives me more choices in my tonal variety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted August 20, 2014 Members Share Posted August 20, 2014 I've got a complex rig of older Digitech gear : the 2112, RP-12 and RP-1. The RP-12 ( 128 presets) handles the Distortion or Overdrive and is the controler, with very light use of delay, reverb and other modulation, the RP-1 (75 presets) handles the modulation end of things and the 2112 (100 amp sims) does all the Fender, Marshall, Carvin, VHT, Soldano, Orange and Mesa-Boogie amp simulations that I need. I have a Control One board too, to handle changes needed in amp simulations in my Digitech 2112 unit. My rig is as sensitive as any of my tube amps. Especial with two VHT Valvulator's in my effects board. I play Metal, Blues, Thrash and Classic Rock and my gear gives me more choices in my tonal variety. I have a couple of Digitec GSP4 & 5 Rack preamp units. Their effects are pretty good, Chorus and Echo etc. But the drive is awful. I'm unable to dial up decent drive tones. There's only one kind of drive with variations of that one is very harsh almost ice pick hard on the ears. If I had to use it I'd likely use some other drive unit in the effects loop then just use its effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted August 20, 2014 Members Share Posted August 20, 2014 Nice to know but the topic is distortion not levels. The two are highly relevant. If you "Ever" get to the point of using multiple gain boxes, you would realize just how valuable this technique is dealing with setting up all those gain boxes and matching the "perceived" loudness to actual loudness. Since, as you said, you only have the one gain channel in your amp and you don't even like that, I doubt you even know why I posted that trade secret or why its relevant to the discussion. Others who use multiple gain units may find its highly useful for recording and live work, exactly because the ears can be deceiving. I developed the trick from doing sound for many, many years and setting up power amps so the Highs, Mid and Low cabs were balanced. I adapted it to setting up programmable multi effects units so they could be used on stage without having volume level fluctuations when changing patches. The result was you can program all kinds of patches, balance the levels, even in poor acoustic environments and not have to worry about tweaking your amps volume every time you change to a different gain patch. If you ever ran sound or worked in a studio for a living the first thing your recognize dealing with bands is just how bad musicians really are at balancing their gain staging using only their ears. Inexperienced musicians can be all over the map when it comes to proper gain staging. They "are" musicians, "not" audio techs so they aren't expected to know the value of how useful a trick like this actually is. If however they were to use the technique, the first thing they would discover is how badly their ears lie to them when they are under different amounts of emotional stress. Have you ever been around people who start to drink? They start off talking calm at normal levels, and after a few hours they are raising their voices talking at the top of their lungs? Many musicians do this with their gain levels all the time. When they hit the stage they are nervous and may dial up levels that are much too low, likely because they are worried about flubs. Then when they build up confidence they may turn up too much and bury the other performers and then they have a hard time being heard. In other words, they adjust things to how they feel and wind up using volume to fix things they should be expressing emotionally in their music. You also have a huge swing in ear sensitivity based on ear fatigue. You may think that gain setting is right on towards the end of your show, but its likely the reason you see all those people leaving the club during that song. Your ears are fatigued so you crank it up. That irritates people so they leave. Setting a baseline and sticking close to it allows the professional you hire to do his job properly and it also helps when your audio guy is on your side making you look good. The reality is if your gain staging is all over the place that sound guy is going to be driven nuts trying to follow all those jumps in volume. After awhile, He'll likely figure its safer to dial you down below the loudest peak and you wind up sounding like a dork playing elevator music the rest of the night. Same thing happens in the studio all the time. I cant count the time I've literally had to put tape over the volume knobs gain boxes so that guitarist didn't reach over and tweak things unconsciously in the middle of a take. In any case, you are not a moderator on this site and I don't need your permission to post things I feel are relevant. If you want to question why I think its relevant, I will be happy to answer but you should at least give me the benefit of the doubt that I have a reason for adding some of the things I post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted August 20, 2014 Members Share Posted August 20, 2014 ... audio guy is on your side making you look good... For the most part, I agree with your post but I don't believe the role of the audio guy is to make anything happen. The role is to remove any obstacle that can get in the way of the purity and delivery of the music. One evening after a show someone came up to me and said that I did a great job on sound. I told them that I did not do anything and the sound they heard came from the musicians on the stage. The important thing is what I did not do. The equipment and the understanding of the equipment is, of course, important too. There must, for example, be enough power available that when the music demands it, lack of power does not get in the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Steve2112 Posted August 20, 2014 Author Members Share Posted August 20, 2014 Um....you guys do know that is a world war I I device...right? I was sorta just kidding. I had hoped someone would call me out. I actually use as much or as little as called for...like everything else. Yes...using my ears....lol sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted August 20, 2014 Members Share Posted August 20, 2014 The two are highly relevant. . . . . . . I doubt you even know why I posted that trade secret or why its relevant to the discussion. . . . . . . Many musicians do this with their gain levels all the time. When they hit the stage they are nervous and may dial up levels that are much too low, likely because they are worried about flubs. Then when they build up confidence they may turn up too much and bury the other performers and then they have a hard time being heard. In other words, they adjust things to how they feel and wind up using volume to fix things they should be expressing emotionally in their music. . . . . . . Setting a baseline and sticking close to it allows the professional you hire to do his job properly and it also helps when your audio guy is on your side making you look good. . . . . . . In any case, you are not a moderator on this site and I don't need your permission to post things I feel are relevant. If you want to question why I think its relevant, I will be happy to answer but you should at least give me the benefit of the doubt that I have a reason for adding some of the things I post. Let's recap. The thread title is "I finally found out how to tell how much distortion I am using". The initial post includes a pic of an Atlantic Research Corp. Distortion Measuring Kit. This tells me the thread is about measuring distortion but I'm sure you figured out it wasn't and was therefore open to anything you chose to post. I know exactly why you posted that "trade secret". You like to hear yourself talk. I, for one, do not adjust levels while playing. That's the sound guy's job and you're right, he's there to make me look--actually sound--good and I don't want to make his job harder. As for my not being a mod, no but I recognize when a thread has been hijacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Steve2112 Posted August 20, 2014 Author Members Share Posted August 20, 2014 I have a couple of Digitec GSP4 & 5 Rack preamp units. Their effects are pretty good, Chorus and Echo etc. But the drive is awful. I'm unable to dial up decent drive tones. There's only one kind of drive with variations of that one is very harsh almost ice pick hard on the ears. If I had to use it I'd likely use some other drive unit in the effects loop then just use its effects. I have been using Digitech stuff for like nearly 25 years...starting with the first street-available rackmount guitar fx/distortion unit the Chain Reaction 944 (with DOD). Never heard of a Digitech GSP 4 or 5. There was a quad 4. There was a DSP 128. There were some RP units that aren't rackmountable. Could you recheck the ones you actually have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Steve2112 Posted August 20, 2014 Author Members Share Posted August 20, 2014 Let's recap. The thread title is "I finally found out how to tell how much distortion I am using". The initial post includes a pic of an Atlantic Research Corp. Distortion Measuring Kit. This tells me the thread is about measuring distortion but I'm sure you figured out it wasn't and was therefore open to anything you chose to post. I know exactly why you posted that "trade secret". You like to hear yourself talk. I, for one, do not adjust levels while playing. That's the sound guy's job and you're right, he's there to make me look--actually sound--good and I don't want to make his job harder. As for my not being a mod, no but I recognize when a thread has been hijacked. Although I was somewhat in jest or parody...yes...the thread was about DISTORTION. This phenomenon can come about several different ways...but in a guitar format, and specifically the GOOD kind (sort of should go unsaid- if not specified?)...it's the little knob on the amp or pedal. It says "distortion" or sometimes "gain". I even said "gain" knob. We don't need a big lecture about how tubes distort, and speakers distort, and how hard your picking distorts. Different thread. Or how the soundman doesn't do anything to make you sound good...in fact it is often what he DOES that makes you sound bad or good. Even a simple thing like heavy or light on the fader can matter, let alone place the mic, drop some hz, gate fluorescent/neon light noise, split the signal and stereoize etc. Different thread. Anyway...yes WKRP can be long winded and convoluted....but we should allow an old man to rant. Through all the muck and obfuscation pearls of wisdom sometimes ensue. Even though I was kidding, the thread is quite enlightening in many ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted August 21, 2014 Members Share Posted August 21, 2014 Um....you guys do know that is a world war I I device...right? I was sorta just kidding. I had hoped someone would call me out. I actually use as much or as little as called for...like everything else. Yes...using my ears....lol sorry I was sorta kidding with the first "ear" post as well but I still think it was a good discussion starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted August 21, 2014 Members Share Posted August 21, 2014 I have been using Digitech stuff for like nearly 25 years...starting with the first street-available rackmount guitar fx/distortion unit the Chain Reaction 944 (with DOD). Never heard of a Digitech GSP 4 or 5. There was a quad 4. There was a DSP 128. There were some RP units that aren't rackmountable. Could you recheck the ones you actually have? I was never able to find the manuals on these units Digitec doesn't have these legacy products listed on their site. Navigating the menus isn't all that hard but there may be some settings in there that expand their use I just cant find. From what my buddy, the original owner told me, the boards would constantly blow in these units. Digitec had a warrantee that lasted a year and if the replacement board blew they would give you another year on the replacement. My guess is they had so many issues with these units they made sure they don't post any info on them in hopes they would die forever. This is the GSP5: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digitech-GSP...item27bea3d808 Couldn't find a pic for the other ones. I'm pretty sure they are 4's but maybe they were 6"s They look just like this GSP7 in brown but the model lettering is like the GSP5 on the front. I'll have to double check the actual version, but they are essentially the same as the GSP5, same knob layout and identical jacks. I think they just used different eproms for different settings. Everything inside looks pretty much the same. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digitech-GSP...item27bce34b8f Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Steve2112 Posted August 22, 2014 Author Members Share Posted August 22, 2014 Okay...I remember those 5's. I still can't find a 4. They're ancient and hardly worth mentioning in any real disucssion of guitar distortions. The 2101/12/20's are nice, and the new RP series offer very amp-like distortion tones. Many have ditched their pedal boards in favor of the convenience of RP's, even if they aren't perfect pedal models. IMHO, the amp models works great as pedal distortions (with some adeptness of course) and the pedal models are very so-so. I still need my distortion meter though. It's much more accurate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted August 22, 2014 Members Share Posted August 22, 2014 I still need my distortion meter though. It's much more accurate! I wonder how many of those got pulled out when The Beatles released the "Revolution" single. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Steve2112 Posted August 23, 2014 Author Members Share Posted August 23, 2014 ^^ lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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