speakers for mixed analog/digital system

[troll41154]

I've been running an analog and digital system into a pair of Rockton 12" trapazoidal ported cabinets for a while now. Specifically GODIN Freeway SA ( Ghost hex) into Roland GI20 , midi out to EMU Ultrproteus, analog guitar signal out to pedal board- Lexicon Signature 284 ( Vortex in the FX loop ), both 284 and Emu into stereo compressor/limiter, output that into Carvin DCM 200L ( solid state). I use this rig in just about every concievable manner: just the analog, then just the digital, then both. I really love the sound of some highly tweaked patches on the synth blended with the sound of a tube guitar amp. But with these speakers I feel like I'm not doing the Ultrapro justice. It's really built for sound design and custom programming and I rarely if ever will play flute or violin as a straight sample. So not hearing every nuance was a trade off I was willing to make as long as the basic guitar sounded good, which it does. These speakers have tremendous bass response, within limits. As I dig deeper into programming the Ultraproteus I find myself thinking more and more about trying to find a pair of full fequency response cabinets that would hopefully do justice to both the analog and the digital side. I know the Vortex isn't analog and I may be making too much out of it all. Which is also part of why I'm finally getting around to dealing with this. Is anybody running a similar rig? How about power ratings? Between all the various power stages I figure I'm peaking in the 100 +/- watt range per side. Usually adequate for the small to mid sized venues I'm playing. Thanks for being here. Love this site.

[mygolfcart123]

I've been running an analog and digital system into a pair of Rockton 12" trapazoidal ported cabinets for a while now. Specifically GODIN Freeway SA ( Ghost hex) into Roland GI20 , midi out to EMU Ultrproteus, analog guitar signal out to pedal board- Lexicon Signature 284 ( Vortex in the FX loop ), both 284 and Emu into stereo compressor/limiter, output that into Carvin DCM 200L ( solid state). I use this rig in just about every concievable manner: just the analog, then just the digital, then both. I really love the sound of some highly tweaked patches on the synth blended with the sound of a tube guitar amp. But with these speakers I feel like I'm not doing the Ultrapro justice. It's really built for sound design and custom programming and I rarely if ever will play flute or violin as a straight sample. So not hearing every nuance was a trade off I was willing to make as long as the basic guitar sounded good, which it does. These speakers have tremendous bass response, within limits. As I dig deeper into programming the Ultraproteus I find myself thinking more and more about trying to find a pair of full fequency response cabinets that would hopefully do justice to both the analog and the digital side. I know the Vortex isn't analog and I may be making too much out of it all. Which is also part of why I'm finally getting around to dealing with this. Is anybody running a similar rig? How about power ratings? Between all the various power stages I figure I'm peaking in the 100 +/- watt range per side. Usually adequate for the small to mid sized venues I'm playing. Thanks for being here. Love this site.

 

 

Well I have this rig which is a axe fx ultra going into one channel. I have my PRS ME 1 and Fender 57 reissue strat going into it.

 

And a axon ax 100 mark II with Yamaha motif XS rack going into the other channel. I use a godin ACS SA classical with 13 pin for that.

 

I use a single EV 112 EXP as my monitor going out to the PA.

 

I have a separate Taylor 312ce going into a fender acoustisonic amp on a separate PA channel.

 

Here is a pic of my whole rig at church.

 

 

A closer pic of my rack units:

 

 

And here is a pic of the EV 112 EXP that I use.

 

 

I LOVE the EV speaker as a monitor. It has a 1,000 watt power supply and a wood cabinet. The lows and highs sound great with it. No matter what I choose to run through it. Either the Axe Fx setup or the MIDI guitar setup. (Both are on separate channels on the speaker) A great price too, about $500.00 new and about $300.00 to $350.00 used on ebay.

[troll41154]

Nice set up. So you're basically relying on house sound systems where ever you play?. I play a lot of ,shall we say, "alternative" venues. Art galleries, performance spaces, private loft gatherings, etc. where I really need to have a stage presence. But let me ask you this. I just got my hands on an old ( early 80's) pair of Sunn (fender) PA cabinets. At first I took them apart just to see what's inside and found a nice Genz Benz 15" woofer with some sort of unidentifiable horn. Big boxes, about 24x18 on the face, but not too heavy as they are particle board. Just fired them up yesterday. Trying to decided , do I like it or do I list it? They sound pretty darn good for such obviously cheap cabinets. Because of the denisity of my sound at times , I find that there are occaisional resonances which suddenly jump out which I wasn't getting in my Rocktron 1x12" speakers. Do you ever find that happening in the EV ?

I may just need better EQ or tweak some of my patches. But I'm really liking the extended frequency response of the Sunns.

[mygolfcart123]

I have a church I attend that this stuff stays at. And yes....I go through the church PA which is not bad. I have another rig for travel.

 

But if you are going the "coffee house" route...you may want to check into some kind of all-in-one PA system. Kind of like the fender passport 300.

 

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/fender-passport-300-pro-portable-pa-system/423205000000000?src=3WWRWXGB&ZYXSEM=0&gclid=COX2-YihgK8CFUyR7Qodnnpp3g

 

As far as the genz benz ? You could put it into another cabinet that is well made along with a good speaker ...or just sell what you have and go with something else you like better. I don't really know what kind of sound you are after or what kind of music you play, so it is hard to say what you will need.

[TieDyedDevil]

troll41154, any of mid-level powered speakers (QSC, EV, JBL, etc.) should be OK for your application.

 

If your program material is bass-heavy and your performance volume significantly above conversational level, you may find yourself wishing for a powered subwoofer to complement the main cabinet. That kills the portability of your rig, but you really can't beat the laws of physics. Heavy bass at high volumes requires large drivers and plenty of power.

 

As far as the resonances you're experiencing, it may be the case that what you're hearing is constructive interference nodes in the room. If moving your head a few feet in any direction seems to alter the sound, that's what you're hearing. There's not much to be done about that in your situation except to be aware that your listeners may be experiencing similar response peaks depending upon where they stand in the room.

 

OTOH, if you're hearing resonances in the mid-frequencies, then it's probably your old Sunn cabinets. Any mid-level powered speaker should perform better.

 

(BTW, Sunn was still independent in the `80s. Fender acquired rights to the Sunn trademark in the early `00s, IIRC.)

[Will Chen]

...you may find yourself wishing for a powered subwoofer to complement the main cabinet. That kills the portability of your rig, but you really can't beat the laws of physics. Heavy bass at high volumes requires large drivers and plenty of power...

 

 

The fEARful designs seems to vastly improve low end response in a reasonably light enclosure by designing a cab specifically around a chosen speaker. I'm more than a little tempted by the 12/6, just wish it was more affordable.

 

You can read up on the original design here: http://greenboy.us/fEARful/

This company has taken the designs to the next level: http://www.fearfulbass.com/

This company sells kits if your so inclined: http://www.speakerhardware.com/categories.php?cat=138

[TieDyedDevil]

 

The fEARful designs seems to vastly improve low end response in a reasonably light enclosure by designing a cab specifically around a chosen speaker.

 

 

There are tradeoffs to be made in speaker design. Whether those tradeoffs work against your program material is a matter for your ears to decide.

[BlueGreene]

I'd really suggest getting expandable stuff. Fender passport is a dead end IMO. If you get a nice 12" 2 way like a PRX 612, you could build up a nice PA with a start like that. Add a PRX 618XLF and you're well on your way. You're not going to get any low end without a sub anyway so you might as well get the good {censored}. You could get a mixwiz and save growing pains in the mixer later, too. That's just my opinion.

[mygolfcart123]

I'd really suggest getting expandable stuff. Fender passport is a dead end IMO. If you get a nice 12" 2 way like a PRX 612, you could build up a nice PA with a start like that. Add a PRX 618XLF and you're well on your way. You're not going to get any low end without a sub anyway so you might as well get the good {censored}. You could get a mixwiz and save growing pains in the mixer later, too. That's just my opinion.

A fender passport would be FINE if all he is doing is going to a club! You don't have to go out and spend a billion dollars on a PA system just to take around with you. And he wanted something portable.

[troll41154]

I just became aware of the fEARful stuff after spending days reading various other forums, especially the Axe FX and bass forums. The thing about the fEARful stuff I like is that I think ( I don't know ) that the high end wouldn't be too pronounced. More flat ? That and the obvious quality from start to finish. I thought there must be kits out there, I just hadn't found them yet so thanks for that link. I've been going back and forth in the studio between the Rocktron cabs and the Sunns. I found that I can get a very nice analog guitar sound out of the Sunns by rolling about 99% of the treble out of the signal.The horns really are that pronounced. But I LOVE the extra punch the low end gets from those 15"s. Meanwhile I've made myself a little crazy from listening so very closely and purposefully finding and revealing the weakness in each of my speaker systems, mostly in the form of distortion, not the good kind. The Sunns were just a quick cheap experiment which I'm not really wedded to. If I replaced the drivers and the crossovers these would improve but I've decided that I'd rather drop back and try, as much as finances will allow, to do it right. If I only knew what that is. The fEARful three way system is certainly a contender. Three way because I think it might also help to keep the highs from getting too intense. But you mention low end response and as I was reading about the 18Sound speakers and all the talk about speaker movement I was reminded of something an engineer once told me. He was really fond of these Celestion L6S nearfield speakers that had an amazing amount of cone movement AND amazing low end response. So now I'm wondering if I don't need a 15" so much as a way better speaker that just moves more air, like 18Sound 12 " ? Have you ever compared a really high quality 12" to a more typical bass speaker like the Genz Benz 15"? I ask both for musical and financial reasons. Every little bit of savings helps.

BTW, I wish I could figure out how to get this forum to send me notices when there's activity. Don't mean to be so laggardly in responding.