How long until your voice improves a lot?

[chamcham]

My inspiration for learning to sing was karaoke.

 

Recently, I think I've finally reached a big milestone.

I was completely tone deaf from the beginning.

 

Over the last month, I've finally reached the point where I can sing scales fairly well.

 

My voice teacher even commented how my pitch sounds so much

better compared to when I started (about 6 months ago).

 

I can also choose random notes on the piano and hum/sing them.

 

But I've noticed that even though my pitch has improved substantially, my voice

still sucks. It's like I have the same crappy voice, just with better pitch now.

 

I was kind of hoping that having correct pitch would drastically change my singing voice. But I still have the same stuffy, warbly, scratchy, breathy tone.

 

I just recorded myself today for the first time and was thinking "If I had to listen to someone sing like this at a karaoke bar, I'd kill myself".

 

Can I expect my singing voice to change substantially from now on? Or is the voice

you start out with pretty much the same voice you'll always have?

 

Anyway, I'm still very excited about learning to sing.

I've learned so much in the last 6 months.

 

Thanks.

[Bajazz]

Expect a few hundred hours of singing to start sounding nice. To be excellent you need 10 000 hours. Anything between is from fine to awesome.

[DukeOfBoom]

some people are naturals, others are not. i fall into the latter.

 

i've been doing this {censored} 1.5-2yrs pretty darn dilligently if you ask me, and I still suck. I'm 1000x better than I was when I started, but I still miss a lot of notes and have bad tone and can't bridge the passagio cleanly.

 

Driving back from punk band practice today, I was actually just thinking that this singing {censored} is that single-most hardest thing I've ever done and stuck with.

 

To relate to other instruments, I was playing Jimmy Page solos 1 yr after picking up the guitar. If I could relate it to my progress with singing, I'd still be trying to play the solo for Smells Like Teen Spirit.

 

Sounds like u fall into the same camp as me buddy.

[grace_slick]

The longer you keep doing it, the better you'll improve. I don't know at what point you'd improve SUBSTANTIALLY, I don't think you'd necessarily notice any major big moment when you'd see a huge difference...it'd probably just be a gradual process...

 

But you're definitely on the right track. First of all, you WANT to sing...secondly, you have standards that are high enough that you want to really improve and not just be able to sing in tune but to be able to sound GOOD in terms of tone and all that other stuff...thirdly, you're having lessons, which is imperative if you're not a natural. And lastly, you're willing to record yourself singing karaoke tracks. This will show you where you're improving and where you still need to improve. Recording yourself and listening honestly is SO important in the process of improving to a point that you're happy with how you sound (eventually).

 

What I'd suggest is to keep doing what you're doing, and also record yourself singing your favourite songs with karaoke track backings. As I said, this will expose where you need to focus on in terms of your overall tone.

 

Also, sing along with songs you love. Try and imitate the singers you like the sound of. Together with proper lessons, imitation can teach and help you a lot in terms of different tones. You sort of need to develop a "sound" of your own, but imitation can assist with this a lot. Right now (not that I've heard you singing), you probably don't know how to SING in terms of musicality...it's not about hitting the right notes...some people have a gorgeous musical tone and don't get all the notes perfectly accurate. Others are spot on in hitting the notes but just sing in their normal speaking voice and it can sound quite...like nothing very impressive.

 

Anyway, I'm rambling (again).

[SergioLeone]

 

some people are naturals, others are not. i fall into the latter. i've been doing this {censored} 1.5-2yrs pretty darn dilligently if you ask me, and I still suck. I'm 1000x better than I was when I started, but I still miss a lot of notes and have bad tone and can't bridge the passagio cleanly. Driving back from punk band practice today, I was actually just thinking that this singing {censored} is that single-most hardest thing I've ever done and stuck with. To relate to other instruments, I was playing Jimmy Page solos 1 yr after picking up the guitar. If I could relate it to my progress with singing, I'd still be trying to play the solo for Smells Like Teen Spirit. Sounds like u fall into the same camp as me buddy.

 

 

Damn you buddy! I wanna pick up the guitar. Do you have any recommendations on how to best learn? Anything you wish you had known before you started? And how much did you practice in the beginning?

 

@OP

 

I'm still learning how to breathe properly when singing. I still sing from the throat and I've had like 10 lessons and sang a few dozen songs. So I think it might take a while. One suggestion I have is focus on the basics until you master them. Like the breathing for example.

[YeahDoIt]

Oh just keep working at it. What else can you do?

 

I think you'll get better with time and work.

 

Giving up goes nowhere.

[Consume]

 

Oh just keep working at it. What else can you do? I think you'll get better with time and work. Giving up goes nowhere.

 

 

I agree. Just keep going. What kind of practicing are you doing on your own? I practice a minimum of 45 minutes to an hour 6 days a week, and on good days I usually run through two different programs, both Jaime Vendera's routine, and Al Koehn's program....so that gives me about 2 hours of training.

[chamcham]

I went out for karaoke with a friend a couple of months ago. His pitch wasn't always perfect, but the sound of his voice was incredible. He swears that he's never taken any music lessons before.

 

As for how I practice daily, I usually practice scales and also some homework exercises my teacher gives me. When I'm in the shower, I like to sing

 

I use my iPad for studying music. It has a piano app that also inclues a scale piano and I can also record songs on it. Sometimes I write out the score (with MuseScore) on my computer and import it into the piano app. Also, it has a tuner app that I can sing into with my microphone and it tells me what note I'm singing. But lately, I haven't needed that tuner app so much since my pitch has improved.

 

I also bought a book with vocal exercises (http://www.amazon.com/Sightsinging-Complete-Musicians-Institute-Essential/dp/0793581915/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1311166451&sr=8-1) and have just started using it.

 

In about a month, all of my teacher's students with meet at a rehearsal studio and we'll have a little gathering. Each student chooses one or two songs. I chose only one song because I felt 2 songs in 1 month would be too much. Sometime later in the fall will be the real recital.

 

I've been making good progress so far. Although a few of the notes are very high. Somehow I did manage to hit them during my lesson.

 

One question: What is a good way to visualize pitches without the aid of a piano?

 

I'd like to be able to think of the letter A and then sing an A note without having to use a keyboard.

 

I can play a pitch and imitate it. Also, I can remember the sound of the last few notes I sung. But if I have to sightread without a piano, I struggle to hit that first note. Then, everything is good until I reach some kind of big jump (like a fifth or an octave) and I'm lost again.

 

Anyway, thanks for all the comments. I really appreciate everyone's advice.

[Masklin]

 

Giving up goes nowhere.

 

 

Quote of the whatever!

[davie]

"A lot" is very subjective. Also, there's no way tell how long its going to take. Some people take only a few months, others may take years to get a solid technique; everyone is different. How exactly is your teacher training you? To be honest, its pointless to focus on pitch and a waste of time. It's more important for a beginner to develop their tonal qualities first, then worry about pitch later. You do that by working on breath support and opening up the resonators. If your resonators are not open, then it could actually throw off your pitch.

[JohnBenussi]

I went out for karaoke with a friend a couple of months ago. His pitch wasn't always perfect, but the sound of his voice was incredible. He swears that he's never taken any music lessons before. As for how I practice daily, I usually practice scales and also some homework exercises my teacher gives me. When I'm in the shower, I like to sing I use my iPad for studying music. It has a piano app that also inclues a scale piano and I can also record songs on it. Sometimes I write out the score (with MuseScore) on my computer and import it into the piano app. Also, it has a tuner app that I can sing into with my microphone and it tells me what note I'm singing. But lately, I haven't needed that tuner app so much since my pitch has improved. I also bought a book with vocal exercises ( http://www.amazon.com/Sightsinging-Complete-Musicians-Institute-Essential/dp/0793581915/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1311166451&sr=8-1 ) and have just started using it. In about a month, all of my teacher's students with meet at a rehearsal studio and we'll have a little gathering. Each student chooses one or two songs. I chose only one song because I felt 2 songs in 1 month would be too much. Sometime later in the fall will be the real recital. I've been making good progress so far. Although a few of the notes are very high. Somehow I did manage to hit them during my lesson. One question: What is a good way to visualize pitches without the aid of a piano? I'd like to be able to think of the letter A and then sing an A note without having to use a keyboard. I can play a pitch and imitate it. Also, I can remember the sound of the last few notes I sung. But if I have to sightread without a piano, I struggle to hit that first note. Then, everything is good until I reach some kind of big jump (like a fifth or an octave) and I'm lost again. Anyway, thanks for all the comments. I really appreciate everyone's advice.

 

Here's my personal experience.

I started learning music as early as 5.

It helped that my father played in his own band....eventually

over time I developed an ear and began to play his own tunes.

 

Then I began creating my own music but also paid very close attention

to whatever was on the radio growing up (the 80's) and so on...

 

Repetition is KEY and fundamental to learning.

I don't buy that some people are "born with a gift" because

aptitude is largely based on how well you pick something up...

 

The younger the better obviously because you haven't been programmed

or indoctrinated to "believe" how "memes" can affect a person's psyche.

 

 

So, how do you "learn?"

 

 

Practice, repetition and of course limitless determination.

You have to really want it and you have to visualize your goal(s)

It's all in the mind so it helps to be disciplined at your craft.

 

It took me years before I could say out loud that I love my voice.

Of course prior to that I was too nasal in tone and didn't sing properly

nor with confidence as ANY singer worth their weight in salt should be.

 

I remember singing at least 4 hours a day, not all at once mind you but

whenever I had the spare chance (avoiding the public) as often as possible!

 

 

Rome wasn't built in a day.

[grace_slick]

Yeah, I did this too ^^ just kept singing for hours and hours most days, just cause I wanted to. It didn’t feel like work. No way have I amassed 10,000 hours in my life though yet…*calculating* I’d say right now it’s at…about 7,000.

[Bajazz]

Repetition is KEY and fundamental to learning. I don't buy that some people are "born with a gift" because aptitude is largely based on how well you pick something up...

If you go to the birth section on any hospital, you'll hear that no one was born singers. But we all are natural screamers! At my old age, I have witnessed a few people that learned to sing, and while some talks about naturals, I always se that it is a 100% linkage between hours sang and vocal skills! My daughter sing all the time, all day long, and her older bother who sings less has significant less vocal skills, but a lot better than other kids that sing less then him.

 

About aptitude, it's dependent on focus, joy and dedication towards a activity. Aptitude changes when you unlock the keys to how to improve, and uses it to learn faster. I see people who likes to sing, and have good concentration, but don't have any ambigious plans about mastering vocals and therefore don't have the drive to improve much. Then I see someone who is serious, but lack the knowledge on how to practice, and seem to struggle at first. But when you stick to something you'll end up getting better to find the correct methods, and if you don't give up and put in the time, effort and enlighten your self, you'll get right on track!

 

Bottom line is that motivation * hours = skills

[grace_slick]

I’ve been told I’m a “natural” but what does that really mean exactly? I HAVE spent all those hours singing…for many years…and when I first began, at 12 years old or so, I could sing in tune and had a pleasant sounding voice, but…if I’d only sang 1 hour each month from then until now, would I be still seen as a “natural” singer now I wonder?

[theminpoes]

Just practice and find out for yourself! Good luck

[grace_slick]

HA! MEOW! I have actually done this, but it was only as a joke and because I was too shy to sing in front of my partner properly at first, so I sung in meows to be funny. lol

[WaterMoc]

I've come to the conclusion that "natural" singers are ones who started singing when they were kids and never stopped. So they taught themselves how to get the sound they wanted, and bridge between registers. I think when you start young you're probably never even aware of different registers, at least not the girls. Unfortunately the boys have to deal with the change in voice while girls seem to just keep on going.

 

In contrast, learning to sing as an adult sucks. Everything that seems so natural to the kid singers seems hard. Even if you have good pitch, bad technique can make it sound like you don't.

 

Anyway I've been at lessons over a year now and am wondering the same as the OP. One year? two years? 10 years?

[KJI105]

As for me, I started singing as a joke. I started off singing karaoke of songs from Japanese cartoons (anime) as a joke, not caring that I sucked... at both singing and speaking Japanese. Eventually I started getting into it and tried to improve, took a singing class, and got into the habit of singing along with stuff. I only started to (almost always) like my voice a few years ago, when I discovered I sounded best singing in a low-ish punk voice.

 

How long until your voice improves? Depends on the person, their natural talent, how much work they put into it, etc. But to me you sound like you're also having a problem with style/tone. You could possibly be a good singer with a "stuffy, warbly, scratchy, breathy tone," but it sounds like you wouldn't like that. If you want to get rid of any/all of those aspects you should try working on eradicating them individually. Your voice teacher might be able to help if you bring it up (I know my teacher didn't want a breathy tone, so he would help anyone get rid of it).

 

I also agree with everything grace_slick said. Singing along with/imitating singers you like is a great way to sound more like stuff you'll like. You'll probably pick up characteristics from them without noticing. Recording is also very important because you can monitor your progress, or even do various takes to try and improve certain aspects right there. Also don't be afraid to try and sing things different ways while recording yourself. You might find a way of singing you like better.

[oiselle]

It all depends on your ability to relax and apply the vocal advice you receive correctly. Working with a vocal coach that suits your learning style helps. Lots of practicing and perseverance will take you a long way.