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Singing in a dry space for practice...

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  • #16
    Originally posted by New2 View Post
    Hay CD, I got these pair of speakers, which one would you use to adjust the overall volume? The LED screen marked with Level 00dB, or the 1 and 2 knobs marked with -00, line, 0, mic, max
    OK firstly you seem to have them too high up on the stand. They are probably not going to be that safe, you can lower them..probably if you have the bottom of the speaker level with your music stand that will will be fine and much safer.

    So ideally you want to practice good gain structure which generally means everything is set so it doesn't have to be turned to the max to get it as loud as you want. This avoids clipping and distortion etc. Having things at between 50 - 75% of their max is a good rule of thumb.

    You want your mixer output so it's stays in the green mostly, then adjust the input knobs on the back of the PA speakers so you get a good clean level. Turn them all the way down and play your backing track and gradually increase it - I don't know if there is any kind of metering to show you what's going on. If you can get up to halfway without any clipping then I would try it there.

    Once those are set you should use the main output level to achieve the desired volume overall. On all the gear I used the amp was separate to the speakers so it went instruments - mixer - amp - speaker..plus we had monitor wedges and stuff. Things have changed a bit since my day

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    • #17
      Originally posted by CosmicDolphin View Post

      OK firstly you seem to have them too high up on the stand. They are probably not going to be that safe, you can lower them..probably if you have the bottom of the speaker level with your music stand that will will be fine and much safer.
      :
      Yes they do wobble about at that height. But I was told that the horn needs to be higher then the audience, otherwise the higher frequencies will be lost trough the crowd.. When the poles are fully extended the speakers are 6 feet off of the ground

      ____________
      Originally posted by CosmicDolphin View Post
      So ideally you want to practice good gain structure which generally means everything is set so it doesn't have to be turned to the max to get it as loud as you want. This avoids clipping and distortion etc. Having things at between 50 - 75% of their max is a good rule of thumb.

      You want your mixer output so it's stays in the green mostly, then adjust the input knobs on the back of the PA speakers so you get a good clean level. Turn them all the way down and play your backing track and gradually increase it - I don't know if there is any kind of metering to show you what's going on. If you can get up to halfway without any clipping then I would try it there.
      I got my first go with the full kit in a rehearsal room this after noon.

      Do you remember when I was doing my recording and you said my voice needed some EQ and reverb. You said more high EQ and less low EQ, so I then turned the high EQ upto max on the mic channels and the low EQ to minimum too. I rerecorded it and you said it sounds much better

      Well I have noticed that with these speakers that when my high EQ on the mixer is set to max; that the higher the volume is set (on the line knob and on the level LED screen with the parameter knob as well) the more I get of the whistling tone coming from the speakers, if I increase the volume the whistling get worse so to compensate I turn down the high EQ knob.

      So far I got the input knob, one notch higher then the Tone marker, and on the LED screen/ paramiter knob the level upto +10dB which is its maximum, and the high EQ knob, one notch higher then zero, or its centre point, to avoid the whistling sound. This was quite loud to the point where I needed to where ear plugs or my rubber grommet headphones that are too my monitors as well (or muffins as SLM would call it) Stood behind the speeks of cource. But this dose not seam right! Surly I should be able to run the high EQ at its maximum with out having effect on the speakers

      Also my laptop that was playing the mp4 backing tracks on the VCL media player program, keeps freezing up for a brief second. The sound coming from it would pause and the screen would go into what I can only describe as a checkered flag.

      Don't know if this is because lack of memory; but it seamed to do it when I was belting high notes or singing very loud though the mic, because the laptop was sat right next to one of my speakers, so don't know if the laptop is sensitive to high sound high frequencies or not
      _____________________________
      Originally posted by CosmicDolphin View Post
      Once those are set you should use the main output level to achieve the desired volume overall. On all the gear I used the amp was separate to the speakers so it went instruments - mixer - amp - speaker..plus we had monitor wedges and stuff. Things have changed a bit since my day
      I think amplifiers and passive speakers are more designed for bigger loads/ bigger jobs what you where on with, not the all in one compact set up you see on open mic nights
      Last edited by New2; 06-08-2019, 11:19 AM.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by New2 View Post
        Yes they do wobble about at that height. But I was told that the horn needs to be higher then the audience, otherwise the higher frequencies will be lost trough the crowd.. When the poles are fully extended the speakers are 6 feet off of the ground
        Yes HF absorption can be an issue but it's generally with larger crowds of people, I don't think it will matter for pub gig - I have don'e everything from 40 people in a pub to 2000 people in a field and I think you will be better off lowering them for now.

        Originally posted by New2 View Post
        I get of the whistling tone coming from the speakers, if I increase the volume the whistling get worse so to compensate I turn down the high EQ knob.
        Yes that sounds like feedback or howl round as we call it. so the sound from the speakers goes back into the mic, get amplified again ..back out the speakers..etc. it's a feedback loop.

        Common fixes are to make sure you are well behind the speakers at the gig so the sound coming from them doesn't get back into your mic

        In a small practice space this may be unavoidable so you just have to turn it down or pull back the hi EQ as this is where it happens the most

        You can get units that kill the feedback electronically but it's not worth it for pub gigs you should be able to manage it

        You can also get mics that have a hypercardoid pickup pattern so they pick up less of the sound from around the room and only what is closer to the mic which can help, I used to have the AKC C1000 which has one of those and sometimes I had to use it for the singer. Most of the time we could use the 58 though.

        Originally posted by New2 View Post
        Also my laptop that was playing the mp4 backing tracks on the VCL media player program, keeps freezing up for a brief second. The sound coming from it would pause and the screen would go into what I can only describe as a checkered flag.
        I would try to use a dedicated music player then if it is causing problems instead of a PC which can often go wrong at inconvenient moments.

        The laptop could be overheating, I can't really think what else it would be
        Last edited by CosmicDolphin; 06-12-2019, 01:52 AM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by CosmicDolphin View Post
          Yes that sounds like feedback or howl round as we call it. so the sound from the speakers goes back into the mic, get amplified again ..back out the speakers..etc. it's a feedback loop.

          Common fixes are to make sure you are well behind the speakers at the gig so the sound coming from them doesn't get back into your mic

          In a small practice space this may be unavoidable so you just have to turn it down or pull back the hi EQ as this is where it happens the most

          The speakers are set approximately 4 meters apart with myself singing behind them in the middle

          Originally posted by CosmicDolphin View Post
          The laptop could be overheating, I can't really think what else it would be
          It now would appear that its sound that is causing it the freeze up for a second, with the volume up on the speakers and when I belt high notes on particular songs, this is when I notice it happening
          Tested it again by playing the same part of the song but this time not singing and it dose not crash out.

          It was worse when I had the speakers lower on the stands as it would be right next to the laptop, but even with the speakers raised it still dose it but not as often, I need to see the laptop as it is playing mp4 files so putting it well behind everything out of the way would be no good

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          • #20
            Originally posted by CosmicDolphin View Post

            Yes that sounds like feedback or howl round as we call it. so the sound from the speakers goes back into the mic, get amplified again ..back out the speakers..etc. it's a feedback loop
            Just ran a test in my flat with one speaker powered up and the high EQ on the mic channel on the mixer turned upto full, and it would appear the closer I move the mic to the speaker the more the whistle.
            With the volume turned up, for there to be no whistle the speaker has to be in another room from the mic

            What kind of distance did you have in mind?

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            • #21
              Originally posted by New2 View Post
              What kind of distance did you have in mind?
              Depends on the venue really..if you can get them 6ft in front of you that's usually more than enough but you don't always have that luxury

              Watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtzk7ifB-Jc

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              • #22
                That video is really really basic tips, but I saw another video by sweet water where they trashed an sm58 and it still worked

                But watching the video, he demenstrates how signal is lost as he moves to the side of the microphone.
                Fo best resalts do you think it is best singing into the mic top dead centre?
                Last edited by New2; 06-14-2019, 07:07 PM.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by New2 View Post
                  Fo best resalts do you think it is best singing into the mic top dead centre?
                  Somewhere around there yeah, but you also have to 'work' the mic so the best singers will move the mic around a little ..so if it's a note you need to belt out they might draw the mic away from their mouth so it doesn't distort with the extra volume.

                  This is the pickup pattern for the SM58 - https://www.shure.eu/musicians/disco...polar-patterns

                  Perhaps we should make a microphone especially for use in dry spaces..call it the SLM-58

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                  • #24
                    This is what I mean by top dead centre. the mic is at a 90 degree angle to the stand. They usually set them about +45 degree higher (135)

                    Watch how they hold a wirless mic, they dont sing into them top dead centre do they!

                    Originally posted by CosmicDolphin View Post
                    Perhaps we should make a microphone especially for use in dry spaces..call it the SLM-58
                    No I was thinking that should be the name of the boat/ fishing trawler called SLM-58-MK1. Just think he could have his own little radio shack out there in the north sea with no one to bother him telling him how he needs to improve
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                    Last edited by New2; 06-16-2019, 11:16 AM.

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