Members kickingtone Posted March 4, 2019 Members Share Posted March 4, 2019 Difficult to explain this, but I've been really disappointed every time I have looked for a balanced approach to "Western music theory". To cut to the chase, instructors would say something like, "see how this chord sounds good/bad/upbeat/downbeat/tight/tense/released/unfinished etc." I would listen, and a lot of the time I would disagree. I think that impressions are individual or cultural. But the instructor's explanations revolve around these absolutes. If he or she is explaining rules for chords and chord progression in terms of AVOIDING "dissonance", "tightness", "incompleteness" etc.it is not possible to follow their instructions unless you agree with their interpretation. How would you follow a rule that tells you which alternative chord to swap in if another rule produces a "dissonant" or "tight" chord? You can't, until you learn to hear the chord as dissonant. It would be daft to learn to accept that a particular chord is "dissonant" when it sounded fine to you and may be ok in some non-Western genres. That would not be learning musicality, it would be picking up narrow habits. So, when I hear such instruction, I say to myself, "I'm not trading in my enjoyment of one kind of music to learn about another". Is there nobody who can explain theory in terms of what is or isn't USUAL in Western genres, without needing you to recalibrate your appreciation of other kinds of music? I'm perfectly capable of enjoying various types of music! Ironically, I can actually find explanations of, say, the rules of an Indian genre of music in terms of tradition (not this sham "dissonance" argument.) My reason for this semi rant is that I have some songs I want to write down and develop. Learning some theory would have been a good idea, but for the sacrifice that seems to be imposed by the current Western music scholarship. The only reasonable option seems to be to learn by example, not theory -- just do some copious deconstruction of what your favourite musicians have done. But if anyone knows of a balanced source on Western music theory, please let me know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kickingtone Posted March 5, 2019 Author Members Share Posted March 5, 2019 But if anyone knows of a balanced source on Western music theory' date=' please let me know![/quote'] Hi kickingtone , check this out...! [video=youtube;C1i-cFx7__M] Yup. This seems to be pitched just right. Great overview of the nomenclature. A bit about popularity of types of chords in certain genres, which is very useful. Keeps his interpretation or the actual sound and mood of the chord separate, so that doesn't become an obstacle. I'll be checking out more of his videos. And,,,I realize that I can hear the chords better when played on a piano (compared to a guitar). I only found a couple of the chords difficult to distinguish, but they were not the basic chords, anyway. (There was a video of somebody explaining chords using a guitar, and I couldn't distinguish Cmajor from Eminor iirc! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CosmicDolphin Posted March 5, 2019 Members Share Posted March 5, 2019 You can't distinguish a C chord from an E minor ..WTF? Well I for one can't wait to hear these songs in all their majesty. But why do you need to learn music theory to write them ..I've never had a music theory lesson in my life but have written loads of songs and I just had one signed to a Library called Crucial Music which is not very easy to get into. Trained musicians I know sometimes say " oh you shouldn't put that note over that chord", but I just go on what sounds right..they don't always agree, Also..if you 're watching videos of other people playing guitars and pianos to listen to chords then how are you writing these 'songs' as you clearly don't sound like you can play either yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CosmicDolphin Posted March 7, 2019 Members Share Posted March 7, 2019 There are songs where the vocals change key in a chorus but even a full octave and sound ok when the other instruments stayed the same Don't give KT any ideas...😶 Which songs do you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kickingtone Posted March 7, 2019 Author Members Share Posted March 7, 2019 Ignoring the two trolls... Here is another video. I stopped when she started talking about "major" or "minor" SOUNDING chords. That is just an association which she had adopted. It is not factual, but she probably doesn't realize that. (This reminds me of the way Blues was originally supposed to be happy music -- celebration of coming through difficult times. Somehow, on its journey from Africa, the same sound got interpreted as sad -- as well as the intention of the music.) So, there it ends. I am not about to change to her preferred interpretation. Looking at the comments below the video also demonstrates the problem.. First a joke... Benz4113: what I've learned in this tutorial is . Couple(2) = Sad Threesome(3) = Happy Then... KazeTheForsaken: +Benz4113 I will use that idea from now on, easy to remember 'cuz it's funny If you can hear that one is happy and the other is sad, why do you really need a rule? Seems kinda dodgy. If you don't hear it that way, why would you learn to hear it that way? Finally, she mentions "modulation" (the concept that the two trolls were trying to discuss in their last posts). So, by watching these simple videos, you can pick up the right terminology, and go away and research it. e.g https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modulation_(music) Modulation is the essential part of the art. Without it there is little music, for a piece derives its true beauty not from the large number of fixed modes which it embraces but rather from the subtle fabric of its modulation. — Charles-Henri Blainville (1767)[2] Here's the vid.. [video=youtube;cepQVdpZB5U] Stay focused! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kickingtone Posted March 7, 2019 Author Members Share Posted March 7, 2019 oh, and in the video in my last post, she also mentions.. "the tonic chord" -- ha! I am picking up the lingo. There is a fine line between presenting something as an idea for consideration, and presenting it as a rule. Rules are bad for creativity, imo. Render what you feel, not what a rule tells you to render. Rules are best used as suggestions for consideration which you can kick out if they don't fit what you feel. A Mexican friend once gave me some traditional music from Mexico. I remember it being "UNeasy listening" for me, to begin with. It was a whole tape, but there were three songs on there that were sort of ok. Because it was on tape, I would often end up "enduring" the songs in between. But, within a short space of time, my ear became tuned into a great new sound. My favourite songs on that tape became the very ones I had previously struggled to listen to. And it was all down to me subconsciously breaking through the limitations caused by habitual and cultural expectations. I can't say for sure what I had initially found difficult about the music, but I suspect it may have had something to do with the phrases not ending "as expected"... sort of like not following that tonic chord rule. e.g, the vocals would go (from memory) something like this (with Mexican Spanish words, of course)... Then it would go into an instrumental interlude, and I would be thinking....WTF!!! Stop! Come back! Finish off the vocal bit! You can't leave it hanging in the air, like that. But, now that I am "acclimatized" to it, I can't really hear any more what my problem with it was. I can still hear that it is "different", and I am hoping that theory can help me get a handle on the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CosmicDolphin Posted March 8, 2019 Members Share Posted March 8, 2019 One republic counting stars in the chorus That's just a vocal octave leap in the 2nd half of the chorus. Well, I say 'just' but it's it's not that easy if you don't have the range. Pretty simple song really , it's mostly a I - III - VII - VI repetitive chord structure..I'll hand it to them though they make the most of it. Mike Senior broke it down it down in his mix review column when it came out if you wanna read. https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/mix-review-20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CosmicDolphin Posted March 8, 2019 Members Share Posted March 8, 2019 t. But don't understand what you mean by I III and VI though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CosmicDolphin Posted March 9, 2019 Members Share Posted March 9, 2019 Have you used the public forum on that site? Maybe once or twice many years ago - Been a subscriber to the mag since it started, it used to be two different magazines that merged in the 90s ( or was it the 80s lol ) ..I've been mentioned in it a couple of times and I know Mike who writes that column. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CosmicDolphin Posted March 10, 2019 Members Share Posted March 10, 2019 I have to say the people on the forum there are a bit more clued up and know what they are doing compared to the Muppets on the home recording forum (hello jimmy69 **************** for brains mod) but the name of the forum is a dead give away really. Yeah you will find a mix of Pro's and Amateur enthusiasts and some of the people who write for the Magazine participate in the forums as well, it's a bit different to the sad-know-it-all's who watch one video on Youtube and suddenly think they are an expert despite never having owned or used any of the equipment or made any music. At least I know a few million people have heard some of my music , even if it was only on screen for about 30 seconds and they don't know it was me that wrote it ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CosmicDolphin Posted March 11, 2019 Members Share Posted March 11, 2019 When you spent 3-5 years of your live dedicated to something you can kind of say you are a bit of a pro No, I would say when you have been paid actual money by strangers for the work you have produced then you can say you are a bit of a pro. Before that point your just an enthuiast / hobbyist. Or a Walter Mitty type in some cases ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CosmicDolphin Posted March 11, 2019 Members Share Posted March 11, 2019 Surely not walter mitty fooling him self to high bugery :D:D Surely not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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