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I want to learn to sing. But god am I horrible...


Mulnore

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Go easy on me please. When I was around 16-17 I was a bit better but still not great... Probably because of how often I sang and I didn't have the fear of being heard which is why I sang constantly. Well what happened to a lot of people happened to me. People who could sing pretty well(A couple of friends who just had the natural ability) that I knew would trash me pretty harshly if I sang around them. So I stopped completely. I wouldn't even sing when no one was round. Well I am about to be 30 now. I have always wanted to be able to sing just casually and it be okay sounding. I don't want to make music or anything. I just don't want to sound like a dying animal. Which is what I sound like now.... I don't believe there are many people who are truly tone deaf. I actually used to be able to match pretty well what I heard and even harmonize a little.

 

But now I sound like I am more tone deaf than most lol. Well in this recording I didn't have much volume because of that fear of being heard and I am not alone in my house. Not that me getting any louder would help any... If I remember right it is easier to control when you are louder but I doubt at this point it matters. It is the first time I have sang in a bit and the first time I have recorded myself since in highschool. So this recording is pretty depressing. It makes me not want to try again. Oh well though. I didn't even attempt to try again and do it better. I doubt I could. I actually enjoy singing a lot even though I am horrible. I enjoy singing things that I relate to more which is probably just obvious but that is why I chose this song. I can't afford vocal lessons right now but I am definitely going to get some when I can afford it. Singing in front of that person is going to brutal for me though.

 

My nieces father is one of the people who have amazing natural ability. He also is very smart. So he taught himself guitar, bass(not exactly very different but still), piano, drums, and to sing. Which he is very good at all of them. I am jealous. I heard this song the first time when he sang it. And he honestly sings it better than the original. Well in my opinion. People have different tastes. He has written and created 100s of complete original songs in many different genres. I don't understand how people can do this at all. I mean without any kind of professional help at all. Again... Jealous.. Anyway... From the way I sound now you may think I am lying that I was alright at singing when I was younger lol. I'd love some advice. Just try not to be harsh please. This is embarrassing enough as it is...

 

https://instaud.io/3aJs

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Hi and welcome to the forum,

 

I had a listen to your recording. I think your pitch is decent, if there is any part where it is a bit off its simply due to being tight or tense. You shouldn't sell yourself short, you seem to follow the pitch of the song fairly well, which IS a natural ability. You shouldn't compare yourself to others too much, its true that there are singers better than yourself but also singers who are much worse. And also no matter what level you're at, even for a great singer there is always going to be someone who is better. Not only is singing physical in nature but its also psychological, which can also affect its physical aspect. A fear reflex can hold back your singing in a negative way, breaths get shallower and shallower, the body gets tense and you start to lock up, not being able to release your voice fully. The fear of being heard can also affect your singing negatively, which goes against the whole idea of singing, to sing is to be heard. If you hold back too much, then all of the tension is being forced inward, rather than feeling the expansion and open feeling of singing freely. I think trying to sing while having this fear can sometimes do more harm than good. You have to make a point to sing out fully. You should deliberately look for a more convenient time and/or place to sing without this fear getting in your way. Although you may not have professional aspirations towards singing, voice lessons can begin to set you on the right path to developing your voice and can go a long way to making consistent improvement, even if its only a couple of lessons or just once a month. I hope you found this helpful.

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Hi and welcome to the forum,

 

I had a listen to your recording. I think your pitch is decent, if there is any part where it is a bit off its simply due to being tight or tense. You shouldn't sell yourself short, you seem to follow the pitch of the song fairly well, which IS a natural ability. You shouldn't compare yourself to others too much, its true that there are singers better than yourself but also singers who are much worse. And also no matter what level you're at, even for a great singer there is always going to be someone who is better. Not only is singing physical in nature but its also psychological, which can also affect its physical aspect. A fear reflex can hold back your singing in a negative way, breaths get shallower and shallower, the body gets tense and you start to lock up, not being able to release your voice fully. The fear of being heard can also affect your singing negatively, which goes against the whole idea of singing, to sing is to be heard. If you hold back too much, then all of the tension is being forced inward, rather than feeling the expansion and open feeling of singing freely. I think trying to sing while having this fear can sometimes do more harm than good. You have to make a point to sing out fully. You should deliberately look for a more convenient time and/or place to sing without this fear getting in your way. Although you may not have professional aspirations towards singing, voice lessons can begin to set you on the right path to developing your voice and can go a long way to making consistent improvement, even if its only a couple of lessons or just once a month. I hope you found this helpful.

 

Thank you :D. I am surprised at the positive response honestly. I mean my ear used to be a lot better but I can still hear pitch. I could tell I was there at some points but also one of my problems is when I hear the difference in voice period and confuse the two. What I mean is the sound of my voice and the sound of the person singing the song is different so at times while I am singing there seems to be a big difference but at the same time I know you can have the right pitch but still sound different because of having a different voice. So I don't know what I think. I will get lessons when I can though. This comment helped me feel a bit better.

**Edit** I was feeling pretty nervous while recording this. For the reason of not being alone and for the reason of knowing that I was going to post it. I was pretty tense and had that feeling in my stomach the whole time. I could feel my throat being more tight than usual.

***Another edit*** My last attempt https://vocaroo.com/i/s18RNcuZKfan

Here is another https://vocaroo.com/i/s1mQJI8BQDOR

This is the last one I'ma post for a while https://vocaroo.com/i/s1fioXxZvnaN

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Singing is about being positive' date=' and you make it difficult for yourself if you focus on negative people and negative comments.[/quote']

 

I've had this problem in many areas in my life when it comes to negativity. I've always cared too much about what people think and say especially the negative stuff.

 

***Edit***

Me trying to sing Creep by Radiohead

https://vocaroo.com/i/s1KWedPFEf7h

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I have been working on using chest more with songs I have not posted. I have been trying to be more accurate with pitch.(I always hear where I am off and I hear it while I am doing it also but I just don't have the control I need to get it on point like I need to yet.) I am trying to learn how to slide more accurately. I am trying to work on projection. I am working using my diaphragm. I am not focusing on one thing at once I am not like aggressively working on any of it yet. I am just singing different songs and trying to do them with the improvements I have made to each. Just enjoying myself.

https://vocaroo.com/i/s1OiLPtJGefy

https://vocaroo.com/i/s1OiLPtJGefy

 

I only know mad world well enough to sing it without anything playing in the background so I'll record that right now and post that. I have recorded this before and I don't sound great but I am still satisfied with my progress regardless.

https://vocaroo.com/i/s12li0T7TKye

This is just from memory

 

I plan on getting more seriously into improving before long but right now I am just enjoying singing again haha.

 

This next next one is me focusing on being generally louder more than I was focusing on pitch. I have not practiced this song very much(You can tell lol) but yeah. For some reason I don't care as much about mistakes anymore. I show people and post songs without caring about how much is wrong. I just practice(By recording myself singing then listening for what I can improve then trying again) for a bit(usually, not this one) and then post or share or let someone listen to it. At points like towards the end in that part mostly devoid of vocals I just do my own thing. Sort of. I didn't try to match pitch there really.

 

https://vocaroo.com/i/s0bJFUAHXGNE

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I think that you have demonstrated good control (and that is a key strength), but you are starting to max out on what your current technique will deliver.

 

I know you have asked for critique (as oppose to advice) but I just want to mention that I think that what you need now are breakthroughs in technique.

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I don't mind advice haha. I didn't realize I made it sound like I didn't want advice. I'll start looking into it. Do you have any suggestions?

 

:D I didn't mean it like that. I mean that you may already have a perfectly good plan of approach that works for you, in which case critique is all you need as you go along.

 

Thing is, I could appreciate a lot of things you said. For example, like you, I naturally follow whole sound rather than just pitch. I know that if I do that, the pitch will sort itself out.

 

What I mean is the sound of my voice and the sound of the person singing the song is different so at times while I am singing there seems to be a big difference but at the same time I know you can have the right pitch but still sound different because of having a different voice.

 

And this stuff, I can identify with...

 

I am not focusing on one thing at once I am not like aggressively working on any of it yet. I am just singing different songs and trying to do them with the improvements I have made to each. Just enjoying myself.

 

....

 

I plan on getting more seriously into improving before long but right now I am just enjoying singing again haha.

 

...

 

I just practice(By recording myself singing then listening for what I can improve then trying again) for a bit(usually, not this one) and then post or share or let someone listen to it.

 

I think that this is taking it seriously. It doesn't have to be boring to be serious.

 

So, I am interested in what you discover as you practise, because I am likely to find it relevant. You know, you can be of help to other singers by kinda "blogging" what you find out, and how you overcome problems. (You will get trolls on your back, lol, but don't let that deter you. :cool:)

 

I found the online videos by Franco Tenelli very useful. I think my first breakthrough in understanding came from there. Even though he is from the strict classical tradition of maestros, he still talks about experimenting and challenging. (Of course, he believes that you will eventually find that the maestro was right all along!...but he doesn't say it.) What he realizes is that you shouldn't blindly follow instruction and leave it at that. To truly understand you need to challenge and experiment. It is not quicker to learn by rote. It is only a weaker kind of learning. His ability to talk about the psychology of approach is what caught my attention initially. He is quite the philosopher.

 

They say that there are no magic bullets in singing, but the "appoggio" "breath support" technique is as damn close a thing to a magic bullet as you will get, in my opinion. It may not suit everybody, though. Some people will have no idea what he is talking about, but, if it works for you, you will be left in no doubt about it. The technique will make your voice so much more responsive in those situations where you know what you want to do, but lack the speed and power to pull it off, usually resulting in a few intermediate notes falling flat while you focus on hitting the key notes.

 

Franco Tenelli is a famous classical tenor, so, unless you want to sound classical, do not apply what he calls "single placement", which encompasses the classical vowel pallette. He is also so into "the beauty of classical singing" that he can appear to be disparaging of contemporary technique. Don't let his essential enthusiasm put you off. Just "borrow" the appoggio thing, and "return the rest to sender".

 

He has a series of videos.

 

[video=youtube;rrqZAp5gWAE]

 

Michael Trimble is another famous classical tenor. It was from his videos that I got to understand about the "mask". There is a difference between what contemporary coaches tend to call the "mask", and how it is defined in classical pedagogy. Personally, I think that the classical mask is superior. This kind of thing is critical, because a lot of contemporary coaches use the "ng vowel" to find the mask. Michael Trimble explains the classical mask as being above the "ng vowel"! That is why classical singers can (as he puts it) "peel the paint off the ceiling with their resonance". The classical mask is very resonant and projective, and it needs a good support method like appoggio. Michael Trimble also has a series of videos.

 

[video=youtube;AjG1QrlWnac]

 

Both worth a five minute gander, and if they strike a chord they provide an excellent approach, in my opinion.

 

 

 

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Well I don't know how to work the quotes properly. I can only get one post quoted and I can't figure out how to quote the different parts individually and it got on my nerves so I am not going to use it.

 

Sorry I misunderstood how you meant that. Haha thanks for complimenting my plan and telling me what you identify with.

 

Lol well you kind of got what I was hinting towards when I said getting serious but I don't exactly find it boring. Not completely. I still enjoy the more repetitive focused type of practicing but I definitely do enjoy just singing while keeping things in mind a lot more.

 

I would like to try to help others but I have a hard time explaining things. I'm not sure how I would say why I've improved besides just listening for my mistakes and making a conscious effort to do those parts differently. So for that reason my "blogging" would be horrible haha. I am not so worried about the trolls anymore. Putting myself out there by posting here and also using the smule app lately has helped. I have been letting people I know offline hear my recordings and TRYING to sing a capella in front of them. Regardless of the criticism I have gotten constructive or not it has really helped me to realize that it doesn't matter much when it isn't constructive(besides how I sound to people of course because I don't want it to be painful for people to hear me sing). It matters how I feel and what I am going to do to improve.

 

Alright thanks for telling me about Franco Tenelli. I'll definitely be watching and re-watching the videos. Support is obviously a problem I have. So I really want to learn this. And I wouldn't mind having the classical sound at some point(I want to be able to have as wide assortment options as I can) but as of now I don't even think that would work out well. So I'll focus on the appoggio thing from him for now. I'll post what I think and how it worked for me initially later on.

 

Lol the most I have looked into mask was the other day. I was looking at different videos and I found this one woman that was trying to get you to make this crazy high pitched crying baby annoying rich prep girl sounding noise to target up towards the middle of your nose then to work on moving it down some. I know that some vocal exercises sound weird and all but I didn't want to do that. And it was contemporary I am pretty sure. Well as you have described it alone this is the mask I will be going for haha. I'll try to understand appoggio as best I can before going for it much though. Thanks :D I really appreciate all the help I can get.

 

Yeah I know a lot of the notes were off key when I did that. I heard that also(Well I heard it after. When I am singing without hearing anything I can't tell as easily when I am off while I am singing. I can tell a little but not nearly as much.) And support is a huge problem for me right now. I don't know anything about actual notes or music theory anymore(I used to play violin YEARS ago when I was younger and I knew quite a bit but when I don't use something I lose pretty much all of it). I've was decent at guitar in the past also but I quit that when I peaked and got bored. I don't remember most of that either. I could use a reader and get the notes written down in advance and check that way. Yeah like I said before support is a huge problem for me. I am not sure what alignment is. I may not understand the details of my short comings but I do know enough and my ear is at least good enough to have an idea of what is going on. I don't know enough to know what I should do as far as techniques or anything though. I just know what needs to be worked on not always necessarily how.

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I've always been the exploring type of learner. I've had many many phases of different skills. Like trojan viruses(Sub7). I started there just pranking people. I never used the key logger or anything like that. I was never malicious. At one point I stumbled upon the group who were developing Sub7 and got more serious into "hacking". Where I learned from the guy who made it in the beginning and the rest of the community they had built and I became a white hat hacker. I got pretty good actually. I would do what white hats generally do. I would get into randoms computers(sometimes websites(The brave white hats did this with entire companies but I was not in that frame of mind at all anyway and I was afraid)) and then communicate with them and tell them how to improve their security and prevent as much as they could. Me and a group I met in that community even did this with google. You'd be surprised how well the people take it when you actually help them lol(After a pretty short period of time I did this when I was using Sub7 also. I would still prank them haha because I was having fun but afterward I would pull up the chat and talk to them about what they needed to do to prevent it ever happening again.(there were a lot of people who infected themselves and because of one of the default functions of the trojan that left them open to anyone who knew how that function worked and I wouldn't even prank these people I would just go straight into what they did wrong). That got me into programming where I learned to program different things. I made things that made a variety of tasks easier. I made some games but they were not all that complicated compared to you know mainstream games. I got into a little trouble when I started programming bots that played games(sometimes the entirety of the game without someone having to do much of anything.) The first time I was interested in programming a bot like that I posted on a forum asking for some advice and of course that didn't go well and I am glad that it didn't. Because learning myself from scratch like that made me feel even better about what I ended up creating. I got into html and building websites in general when I was running many clans for games(I did this most of the time for kids who needed something in their life) and I got pretty good at that also. I got very serious with drawing also. I got pretty good at realism when it came to portraits. I've lost a bit of that but I can still draw decently. The same thing happened with piano as it did with guitar. With the violin it was a little different. My expensive violin was stolen and I was very pissed off. I didn't have the money to get another because of my age and the guy who got the violin for me in the first place was not happy that the one he had bought for me was gone and he didn't get another one for me(I never asked for another either). So instead of using the violins provided at school(I was typical of a taurus back then(I don't actually believe in astrology) by being very stubborn and hard headed. I didn't like when things didn't work out the way I wanted them to. Also probably just something about being a kid. So I was like well I don't have the violin I had and I want the one I had not the ones from school I am done with this. I quit the course. I was in the singing classes also but back then I was super tone challenged and the teachers and students were horribly rude. So I quit that also. I studied religion, spirituality, and the paranormal extensively when I was in highschool because even though I was and still am very very influenced by science I have always wanted there to be something more than what science has proven. I still feel the same way but from what I studied in the past I figured out that if there is something out there studying those types of things will not really give me proof of any kind because of the nature of it. It helped me in other ways though so I am glad that I did that. I got into marksmanship when I was younger with the help of my grandfather. I was pretty damn good at that also. I was fairly athletic so I got into sports and my favorite was football(quarterback). As I said though when I don't use something it is all lost.

I know this is all irrelevant lol I just wanted to tell a bit about myself.

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^

That appoggio thing... I was kind of looking for it from the get go (although I didn't realize it at the time). So, when I found it, I was like, damn! that's what I've been after all the time! It all made a lot of sense very quickly. But, for some people it is just a heap of weird instructions that they are likely to do very wrong, in which case they need to find some other method or get face-to-face tuition. So, good luck! You'll know if it is for you in a matter of minutes, I think! I look forward to hearing your experience. :D

 

I was also instinctively rejecting all those "quack", "witch cackle", "door creak" exercises (I should add "annoying rich prep school girl", lol) You can see me whinging about them in my earliest posts. They just felt wrong for me. But, as soon as I came across appoggio, it felt right.

 

Appoggio (I think it means "to lean", in Italian) refers to bearing down the breath on the diaphragm (in the area of the sternum). When I first got interested in singing, I had no idea about appoggio, but I was posting about how singing "felt", and I remember saying that it was as if the sound was bouncing off the diaphragm like a trampoline. I was trying to describe the leaning sensation, although I didn't know it. It was the sensation of generating power off the diaphragm. But instead of allowing free speech (lol), a moderator (and it wasn't on these forums) started to delete and moderate my posts. So, I had to go and discover appoggio by myself, all because the moderator swore by some single method he knew and understood.

 

What I figured is that many contemporary techniques achieve projection using "edge" (you may find it described positively as "buzz" or "brightness"). Personally, my first impression is that it is a "dry sound". Those "annoying" exercises help develop "edge" in the voice. On the other hand, appoggio achieves projection through more powerful breath support, which allows use of the classical mask. It gives a different sound quality.

 

Anyway, I wish there was more discussion about these things, rather than dogma.

 

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Few of us are gifted with beautiful voices. I'm not. We can't all be Joan Baez or Nat King Cole. So we find ways to work around that. People like hearing songs sung with feeling and conviction. That's why people like Bob Dylan, Janis Joplin, and Louis Armstrong are so revered. Whether it's a happy song or a sad song, a ballad or a rocker, they're singing like they mean it, like it matters.

 

So does it matter? Do you mean it? If you do, show it. If it doesn't come naturally, put the work in. That's what will make you a singer.

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Wow, our voices are so, so similar. I legit thought it was me singing, hahaha.

 

here's me doing creep when i was first singing and some various other songs, tell me if there's as much similarity as i think:

 

Few songs in this one (Mad World(kinda put on a voice for that one), Hallelujah, Creep:

 

https://vocaroo.com/i/s0foUhYXZW13

 

Exit music:

 

https://vocaroo.com/i/s1Kp8XnMyx4W

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Hey there! Your pitch isn't too bad, but you really need to start building strength in your voice. It's very light and weak at the moment. The main difference between a lot of professional and unprofessional singers beyond the basics is how resilient their cords are. We need to teach your body the right support and for your vocal cords to resist a higher amount of air pressure so you can create BETTER sounds.

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Well I have not been here in a long time lol. I've practiced singing off and on. I did it regularly for quite a while. Then I got demoralized and stopped for a bit. Recently I have been trying again. I have definitely made progress since I was here. I used smule(Mulnore) for a long time before using my own tiny "studio setup" which I am still not great at using(at all). You can see a lot of the steps of progress through all of those recordings on smule. I have two recordings I did today with my setup that anyone can check out and give literally any feedback on. One of them I sang sort of like I used to here but I did it on purpose. Maybe I shouldn't have gone so soft or used that shaky sound as much idk lol. The other is a Nirvana song drastically different but I don't find it that great either. Haha, even after all of this time I still just feel like everything is terrible regardless of progress. I see the progress but I just think I have not progressed as much as I should have and that pitch wise I may have even gotten worse. I am wondering if anyone is going to tell me to be careful when they hear the Nirvana song xD. I tried to put only links but I don't know how... This embedded audio is WAY too big... I tried to see if I could shrink it but I don't know how to do that either... Lol. I am been wanting to try to write, sing, and play(guitar), my own stuff but it seems as though I have zero creativity. I can altar other peoples music if I try in a way that shows more of my own tastes or feelings or a bit of me but as far as writing lyrics or just making something completely original singing or guitar wise... It's very very very hard. And honestly it makes me feel like a complete moron when I try because of the way it sounds with both singing and guitar and how incredibly hard it is to think of anything.

 

 

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