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I want to learn to sing. But god am I horrible...

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  • I want to learn to sing. But god am I horrible...

    Go easy on me please. When I was around 16-17 I was a bit better but still not great... Probably because of how often I sang and I didn't have the fear of being heard which is why I sang constantly. Well what happened to a lot of people happened to me. People who could sing pretty well(A couple of friends who just had the natural ability) that I knew would trash me pretty harshly if I sang around them. So I stopped completely. I wouldn't even sing when no one was round. Well I am about to be 30 now. I have always wanted to be able to sing just casually and it be okay sounding. I don't want to make music or anything. I just don't want to sound like a dying animal. Which is what I sound like now.... I don't believe there are many people who are truly tone deaf. I actually used to be able to match pretty well what I heard and even harmonize a little.

    But now I sound like I am more tone deaf than most lol. Well in this recording I didn't have much volume because of that fear of being heard and I am not alone in my house. Not that me getting any louder would help any... If I remember right it is easier to control when you are louder but I doubt at this point it matters. It is the first time I have sang in a bit and the first time I have recorded myself since in highschool. So this recording is pretty depressing. It makes me not want to try again. Oh well though. I didn't even attempt to try again and do it better. I doubt I could. I actually enjoy singing a lot even though I am horrible. I enjoy singing things that I relate to more which is probably just obvious but that is why I chose this song. I can't afford vocal lessons right now but I am definitely going to get some when I can afford it. Singing in front of that person is going to brutal for me though.

    My nieces father is one of the people who have amazing natural ability. He also is very smart. So he taught himself guitar, bass(not exactly very different but still), piano, drums, and to sing. Which he is very good at all of them. I am jealous. I heard this song the first time when he sang it. And he honestly sings it better than the original. Well in my opinion. People have different tastes. He has written and created 100s of complete original songs in many different genres. I don't understand how people can do this at all. I mean without any kind of professional help at all. Again... Jealous.. Anyway... From the way I sound now you may think I am lying that I was alright at singing when I was younger lol. I'd love some advice. Just try not to be harsh please. This is embarrassing enough as it is...

    https://instaud.io/3aJs
    Last edited by Mulnore; 01-14-2019, 02:41 AM.

  • #2
    Hi and welcome to the forum,

    I had a listen to your recording. I think your pitch is decent, if there is any part where it is a bit off its simply due to being tight or tense. You shouldn't sell yourself short, you seem to follow the pitch of the song fairly well, which IS a natural ability. You shouldn't compare yourself to others too much, its true that there are singers better than yourself but also singers who are much worse. And also no matter what level you're at, even for a great singer there is always going to be someone who is better. Not only is singing physical in nature but its also psychological, which can also affect its physical aspect. A fear reflex can hold back your singing in a negative way, breaths get shallower and shallower, the body gets tense and you start to lock up, not being able to release your voice fully. The fear of being heard can also affect your singing negatively, which goes against the whole idea of singing, to sing is to be heard. If you hold back too much, then all of the tension is being forced inward, rather than feeling the expansion and open feeling of singing freely. I think trying to sing while having this fear can sometimes do more harm than good. You have to make a point to sing out fully. You should deliberately look for a more convenient time and/or place to sing without this fear getting in your way. Although you may not have professional aspirations towards singing, voice lessons can begin to set you on the right path to developing your voice and can go a long way to making consistent improvement, even if its only a couple of lessons or just once a month. I hope you found this helpful.
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    • #3
      Originally posted by davie View Post
      Hi and welcome to the forum,

      I had a listen to your recording. I think your pitch is decent, if there is any part where it is a bit off its simply due to being tight or tense. You shouldn't sell yourself short, you seem to follow the pitch of the song fairly well, which IS a natural ability. You shouldn't compare yourself to others too much, its true that there are singers better than yourself but also singers who are much worse. And also no matter what level you're at, even for a great singer there is always going to be someone who is better. Not only is singing physical in nature but its also psychological, which can also affect its physical aspect. A fear reflex can hold back your singing in a negative way, breaths get shallower and shallower, the body gets tense and you start to lock up, not being able to release your voice fully. The fear of being heard can also affect your singing negatively, which goes against the whole idea of singing, to sing is to be heard. If you hold back too much, then all of the tension is being forced inward, rather than feeling the expansion and open feeling of singing freely. I think trying to sing while having this fear can sometimes do more harm than good. You have to make a point to sing out fully. You should deliberately look for a more convenient time and/or place to sing without this fear getting in your way. Although you may not have professional aspirations towards singing, voice lessons can begin to set you on the right path to developing your voice and can go a long way to making consistent improvement, even if its only a couple of lessons or just once a month. I hope you found this helpful.
      Thank you . I am surprised at the positive response honestly. I mean my ear used to be a lot better but I can still hear pitch. I could tell I was there at some points but also one of my problems is when I hear the difference in voice period and confuse the two. What I mean is the sound of my voice and the sound of the person singing the song is different so at times while I am singing there seems to be a big difference but at the same time I know you can have the right pitch but still sound different because of having a different voice. So I don't know what I think. I will get lessons when I can though. This comment helped me feel a bit better.
      **Edit** I was feeling pretty nervous while recording this. For the reason of not being alone and for the reason of knowing that I was going to post it. I was pretty tense and had that feeling in my stomach the whole time. I could feel my throat being more tight than usual.
      ***Another edit*** My last attempt https://vocaroo.com/i/s18RNcuZKfan
      Here is another https://vocaroo.com/i/s1mQJI8BQDOR
      This is the last one I'ma post for a while https://vocaroo.com/i/s1fioXxZvnaN
      Last edited by Mulnore; 01-15-2019, 03:57 AM.

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      • #4
        Singing is about being positive, and you make it difficult for yourself if you focus on negative people and negative comments.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by kickingtone View Post
          Singing is about being positive, and you make it difficult for yourself if you focus on negative people and negative comments.
          I've had this problem in many areas in my life when it comes to negativity. I've always cared too much about what people think and say especially the negative stuff.

          ***Edit***
          Me trying to sing Creep by Radiohead
          https://vocaroo.com/i/s1KWedPFEf7h
          Last edited by Mulnore; 01-16-2019, 03:58 AM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by kickingtone View Post
            Singing is about being positive, and you make it difficult for yourself if you focus on negative people and negative comments.
            For once I agree with SLM (dressed up as KT)
            for every one real singer there are 1000 a ho@#%&**************** for brains play/ prat musisions.
            and for them there are indeed again 1 to a thousand that have never made any effort at it full stop! But are more then glad to criticise your hard work by finding the smallest fault in your work and saying right that's it you made a mistake and therefore you don't have what it takes and you should pack it all in before you make a fool out of your self. And who are these people we ask, what musical experience training do they hold, the answer is fk all!

            I will use SLMs base the homerecordingforum as proof!
            Last edited by New2; 01-17-2019, 07:25 PM.

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            • #7
              4 more. In the order that they were done.
              https://vocaroo.com/i/s1gQXTcLXxeJ
              https://vocaroo.com/i/s1r1hKO2PUMy
              https://vocaroo.com/i/s0jAOSRikifs
              https://vocaroo.com/i/s1kk8J9J3hhW
              Last edited by Mulnore; 01-19-2019, 07:02 AM.

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              • #8
                So, what is your plan?

                I mean what have you learned/done differently between the different songs?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mulnore View Post
                  4 more. In the order that they were done.
                  [URL]https://vocaroo.com/i/s1gQXTcLXxeJ
                  on that first clip there I can hear the original singer and your voice together, there are indeed notes that you are singing to sharp or to flat conpered to the original, can you notice them?

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                  • #10
                    I have been working on using chest more with songs I have not posted. I have been trying to be more accurate with pitch.(I always hear where I am off and I hear it while I am doing it also but I just don't have the control I need to get it on point like I need to yet.) I am trying to learn how to slide more accurately. I am trying to work on projection. I am working using my diaphragm. I am not focusing on one thing at once I am not like aggressively working on any of it yet. I am just singing different songs and trying to do them with the improvements I have made to each. Just enjoying myself.
                    https://vocaroo.com/i/s1OiLPtJGefy
                    https://vocaroo.com/i/s1OiLPtJGefy

                    I only know mad world well enough to sing it without anything playing in the background so I'll record that right now and post that. I have recorded this before and I don't sound great but I am still satisfied with my progress regardless.
                    https://vocaroo.com/i/s12li0T7TKye
                    This is just from memory

                    I plan on getting more seriously into improving before long but right now I am just enjoying singing again haha.

                    This next next one is me focusing on being generally louder more than I was focusing on pitch. I have not practiced this song very much(You can tell lol) but yeah. For some reason I don't care as much about mistakes anymore. I show people and post songs without caring about how much is wrong. I just practice(By recording myself singing then listening for what I can improve then trying again) for a bit(usually, not this one) and then post or share or let someone listen to it. At points like towards the end in that part mostly devoid of vocals I just do my own thing. Sort of. I didn't try to match pitch there really.

                    https://vocaroo.com/i/s0bJFUAHXGNE
                    Last edited by Mulnore; 01-21-2019, 03:44 PM.

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                    • #11
                      I think that you have demonstrated good control (and that is a key strength), but you are starting to max out on what your current technique will deliver.

                      I know you have asked for critique (as oppose to advice) but I just want to mention that I think that what you need now are breakthroughs in technique.

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                      • #12
                        I don't mind advice haha. I didn't realize I made it sound like I didn't want advice. I'll start looking into it. Do you have any suggestions?
                        Last edited by Mulnore; 01-21-2019, 07:00 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mulnore View Post
                          I don't mind advice haha. I didn't realize I made it sound like I didn't want advice. I'll start looking into it. Do you have any suggestions?
                          I didn't mean it like that. I mean that you may already have a perfectly good plan of approach that works for you, in which case critique is all you need as you go along.

                          Thing is, I could appreciate a lot of things you said. For example, like you, I naturally follow whole sound rather than just pitch. I know that if I do that, the pitch will sort itself out.

                          Originally posted by Mulnore View Post
                          What I mean is the sound of my voice and the sound of the person singing the song is different so at times while I am singing there seems to be a big difference but at the same time I know you can have the right pitch but still sound different because of having a different voice.
                          And this stuff, I can identify with...

                          Originally posted by Mulnore View Post
                          I am not focusing on one thing at once I am not like aggressively working on any of it yet. I am just singing different songs and trying to do them with the improvements I have made to each. Just enjoying myself.

                          ....

                          I plan on getting more seriously into improving before long but right now I am just enjoying singing again haha.

                          ...

                          I just practice(By recording myself singing then listening for what I can improve then trying again) for a bit(usually, not this one) and then post or share or let someone listen to it.
                          I think that this is taking it seriously. It doesn't have to be boring to be serious.

                          So, I am interested in what you discover as you practise, because I am likely to find it relevant. You know, you can be of help to other singers by kinda "blogging" what you find out, and how you overcome problems. (You will get trolls on your back, lol, but don't let that deter you. )

                          I found the online videos by Franco Tenelli very useful. I think my first breakthrough in understanding came from there. Even though he is from the strict classical tradition of maestros, he still talks about experimenting and challenging. (Of course, he believes that you will eventually find that the maestro was right all along!...but he doesn't say it.) What he realizes is that you shouldn't blindly follow instruction and leave it at that. To truly understand you need to challenge and experiment. It is not quicker to learn by rote. It is only a weaker kind of learning. His ability to talk about the psychology of approach is what caught my attention initially. He is quite the philosopher.

                          They say that there are no magic bullets in singing, but the "appoggio" "breath support" technique is as damn close a thing to a magic bullet as you will get, in my opinion. It may not suit everybody, though. Some people will have no idea what he is talking about, but, if it works for you, you will be left in no doubt about it. The technique will make your voice so much more responsive in those situations where you know what you want to do, but lack the speed and power to pull it off, usually resulting in a few intermediate notes falling flat while you focus on hitting the key notes.

                          Franco Tenelli is a famous classical tenor, so, unless you want to sound classical, do not apply what he calls "single placement", which encompasses the classical vowel pallette. He is also so into "the beauty of classical singing" that he can appear to be disparaging of contemporary technique. Don't let his essential enthusiasm put you off. Just "borrow" the appoggio thing, and "return the rest to sender".

                          He has a series of videos.



                          Michael Trimble is another famous classical tenor. It was from his videos that I got to understand about the "mask". There is a difference between what contemporary coaches tend to call the "mask", and how it is defined in classical pedagogy. Personally, I think that the classical mask is superior. This kind of thing is critical, because a lot of contemporary coaches use the "ng vowel" to find the mask. Michael Trimble explains the classical mask as being above the "ng vowel"! That is why classical singers can (as he puts it) "peel the paint off the ceiling with their resonance". The classical mask is very resonant and projective, and it needs a good support method like appoggio. Michael Trimble also has a series of videos.



                          Both worth a five minute gander, and if they strike a chord they provide an excellent approach, in my opinion.


                          Last edited by kickingtone; 01-22-2019, 05:42 AM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mulnore View Post
                            I only know mad world well enough to sing it without anything playing in the background so I'll record that right now and post that. I have recorded this before and I don't sound great but I am still satisfied with my progress regardless.
                            https://vocaroo.com/i/s12li0T7TKye
                            This is just from memory
                            RL]
                            But a lot of the notes are still off key and it sound very unsupported
                            faces, places, early, nowhere, tomorrow ect
                            I use a pitch reader and sheet music to build go muscular memory. But first off you need to learn and master proper breath support and allinment as this seams to be holding you back

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                            • #15
                              Well I don't know how to work the quotes properly. I can only get one post quoted and I can't figure out how to quote the different parts individually and it got on my nerves so I am not going to use it.

                              Sorry I misunderstood how you meant that. Haha thanks for complimenting my plan and telling me what you identify with.

                              Lol well you kind of got what I was hinting towards when I said getting serious but I don't exactly find it boring. Not completely. I still enjoy the more repetitive focused type of practicing but I definitely do enjoy just singing while keeping things in mind a lot more.

                              I would like to try to help others but I have a hard time explaining things. I'm not sure how I would say why I've improved besides just listening for my mistakes and making a conscious effort to do those parts differently. So for that reason my "blogging" would be horrible haha. I am not so worried about the trolls anymore. Putting myself out there by posting here and also using the smule app lately has helped. I have been letting people I know offline hear my recordings and TRYING to sing a capella in front of them. Regardless of the criticism I have gotten constructive or not it has really helped me to realize that it doesn't matter much when it isn't constructive(besides how I sound to people of course because I don't want it to be painful for people to hear me sing). It matters how I feel and what I am going to do to improve.

                              Alright thanks for telling me about Franco Tenelli. I'll definitely be watching and re-watching the videos. Support is obviously a problem I have. So I really want to learn this. And I wouldn't mind having the classical sound at some point(I want to be able to have as wide assortment options as I can) but as of now I don't even think that would work out well. So I'll focus on the appoggio thing from him for now. I'll post what I think and how it worked for me initially later on.

                              Lol the most I have looked into mask was the other day. I was looking at different videos and I found this one woman that was trying to get you to make this crazy high pitched crying baby annoying rich prep girl sounding noise to target up towards the middle of your nose then to work on moving it down some. I know that some vocal exercises sound weird and all but I didn't want to do that. And it was contemporary I am pretty sure. Well as you have described it alone this is the mask I will be going for haha. I'll try to understand appoggio as best I can before going for it much though. Thanks I really appreciate all the help I can get.

                              Yeah I know a lot of the notes were off key when I did that. I heard that also(Well I heard it after. When I am singing without hearing anything I can't tell as easily when I am off while I am singing. I can tell a little but not nearly as much.) And support is a huge problem for me right now. I don't know anything about actual notes or music theory anymore(I used to play violin YEARS ago when I was younger and I knew quite a bit but when I don't use something I lose pretty much all of it). I've was decent at guitar in the past also but I quit that when I peaked and got bored. I don't remember most of that either. I could use a reader and get the notes written down in advance and check that way. Yeah like I said before support is a huge problem for me. I am not sure what alignment is. I may not understand the details of my short comings but I do know enough and my ear is at least good enough to have an idea of what is going on. I don't know enough to know what I should do as far as techniques or anything though. I just know what needs to be worked on not always necessarily how.
                              Last edited by Mulnore; 01-23-2019, 05:39 AM.

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