Members Swampgrass Posted October 8, 2018 Members Share Posted October 8, 2018 Hi I'm a songwriter and also play in a band. Im trying to improve my harmonies with the band and figure it will help on solo stuff too. Heres my question: How exactly do I know when Im doin it right? Sometimes I think its on but then ill hear a recording back and its pretty unanimous that its way off. Like that whole thing about how your voice sounds different than in your head when you hear it back. Ive been trying to practice with a tuner and sheet music but not having much luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kickingtone Posted October 9, 2018 Members Share Posted October 9, 2018 Hi I'm a songwriter and also play in a band. Im trying to improve my harmonies with the band... Writing or singing harmonies? I'll assume that you are only talking about singing (and that the harmony itself is OK)? ...and figure it will help on solo stuff too. Something I figured very quickly, too. Heres my question: How exactly do I know when Im doin it right? So, you are sure that the harmony is written well, and you want to know when it is being sung well? Practise and record every take. Listen and adjust. My guess is that the listening part, and knowing what and how to adjust, is the most challenging. Sometimes I think its on but then ill hear a recording back and its pretty unanimous that its way off. Like that whole thing about how your voice sounds different than in your head when you hear it back. Ive been trying to practice with a tuner and sheet music but not having much luck I would recommend paying attention to, and developing, your feel for the music over using a tuner. There are SO many skills and psychological effects involved, here, and they become much more important when singing harmony. Two or three good pitch perfect singers can produce a poor harmony, simply because their voices don't "go" together. That is because a sound is more than only its pitch. (That is another reason why using a tuner is limited.) You have to practise balancing other dynamics in your voice -- timbre, phrasing, registration... That takes a lot of general practice, followed by specific practice for the current song. Then there is the whole skill set of listening. There is a balance to be found in how much attention you are paying to feedback from your own voice in relation to the whole context of the music. If the balance is wrong, your voice can get "sucked" in different directions. You may not notice until you play it back. It takes practice to be able to find and hear your voice in a mix for good live feedback. That will depend, too, on how you choose to wear the headphones (e.g one ear listening to your own vocals through the headphones, the other ear listening to everything else). Have you tried building up the harmony in a DAW, for studio diagnostics? Get each singer to sing their own separate track against the main harmony. If that sounds OK, then the problem is the psychological distraction of singing together live. I'd like to know how you get on, because this whole question of harmony crossed my mind some time ago. I posted some of my practice clips in other threads. Basically, I started learning to sing over my own vocals in order to control differentiation in my tone, and learn relative balance. I still have to learn the "rules" of Western harmony though, cos I don't know if what I am singing "follows the rules". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CosmicDolphin Posted October 10, 2018 Members Share Posted October 10, 2018 Take what KT says with a pinch of salt, he talks a good game but he's never written a song or played in a band, or mixed a live gig. He' just an armchair expert with no practical musical ability and not much more vocally. His SoundCloud is a hoot though. Do you mean you're trying to improve your live harmonies singing backup when gigging or is this for recording ? Either way there's a balance between chords, melody and harmony. You can write major, minor or augmented harmonies. A little music theory can go a long way..it really depends on the style of the song as you can really sweeten the sound or make it sound darker and more discordant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators davie Posted October 11, 2018 Moderators Share Posted October 11, 2018 It might be helpful to work out the harmonies before you perform them. Try recording the main vocal first, and then practice singing on top of it being played back. When you sing any note within the key of the song other than being sung on main vocal then you'll have a harmony. Listen back to the main vocal repeatedly, and try to imagine what notes will blend with it. Just know that it doesn't necessarily need to be complex. Sometimes a good harmony might just be one or two notes within a vocal line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flemtone Posted October 11, 2018 Members Share Posted October 11, 2018 The problem could be one of many things:-you have difficulty singing a different part than the melody-your harmony doesn't jive with the vocal melody you're trying to harmonize-your harmony doesn't jive with the underlying chord structure of the song-you're just not able to do it. For the first, your best bet is to isolate the melody vocal and practicepracticepractice your harmony without the distraction of instrumentation. Davie's suggestion is spot-on. Do this first. For the next two, you'd need to confirm the validity of the harmony with the basic structure of the song, both vocal melody and chord structure. After working on the first area (see above) and you're comfortable with your harmony part, try adding in a single stream of backing instrumentation (something chorded, like piano or guitar). If you don't hear a conflict, continue to add layers (bass, percussion, horns etc). Leave the solos out of the equation. If you find that #1 (above) just isn't working, you may not have an 'ear' for harmony. There's a great deal of difference between writing a harmony and being able to perform it, even in the studio. Some people can do it with ease, some people really struggle with it and, unfortunately, some people just can't wrap their heads around it for a variety of reasons. This does NOT make one a bad singer! Some of the greatest singers in history couldn't harmonize their way thru 'Twinkle Twinkle Little Star'. It's a gift that not everyone possesses. Just like someone who plays guitar shouldn't disparage themselves because they aren't SRV or if a keyboardist can't play like Keith Emerson, this doesn't diminish their talent. The main thing is practice. The GREAT thing is that you carry your voice everywhere you go. Sing everywhere. Learn control, learn breathing. Listen to your voice and make it do what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flemtone Posted October 12, 2018 Members Share Posted October 12, 2018 You know before I though our friend SLM was not quite a full shilling, but now I know he is 100% complete Bull S@@t! Last night I posted hear and read something about SLM saying I am a song writter too but it looks like he has edited and remvoed that part now I mean jesues wept, what planet is he living.. what ass is he living up.. And where are your own songs SLM, where are the links to them all? or is the emperor still wearing nothing at all https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor%27s_New_Clothes hello Jimmy69****************forbrains&steriomono, dose bohemian rhapsody from the homerocordingMorenForum rekindel a few memories SLM! Hey did you know SLM I am a song writter to myself, but at least I can sing wearing all my cloths Is there a point to this rant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flemtone Posted October 12, 2018 Members Share Posted October 12, 2018 Take what KT says with a pinch of salt, he talks a good game but he's never written a song or played in a band, or mixed a live gig. He' just an armchair expert with no practical musical ability and not much more vocally. His SoundCloud is a hoot though. Do you mean you're trying to improve your live harmonies singing backup when gigging or is this for recording ? Either way there's a balance between chords, melody and harmony. You can write major, minor or augmented harmonies. A little music theory can go a long way..it really depends on the style of the song as you can really sweeten the sound or make it sound darker and more discordant. I've played in bands for more than 40 years and sung for much longer. I don't find anything incorrect in the advice given by kickingtone. I'm surprised - there seems to be such rancor between posters on this forum. I've always gotten along well with fellow musicians who perform at any level, be they just learning or stadium performers. I don't understand the hostility here. Somebody want to clue me in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CosmicDolphin Posted October 12, 2018 Members Share Posted October 12, 2018 Somebody want to clue me in? #waltermitty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flemtone Posted October 12, 2018 Members Share Posted October 12, 2018 I don't have reason to look into a poster's history - I take posts one at a time and judge them on their merits (or lack thereof). The advice given was similar to my own thinking (as I posted). Whatever has happened in the past between members finds me sublimely indifferent. If you have advice, give it freely. If you don't, learn from it. If you just come to cut somebody down, that says much more about you than the target of your ire. Take it as you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators davie Posted October 13, 2018 Moderators Share Posted October 13, 2018 I don't have reason to look into a poster's history - I take posts one at a time and judge them on their merits (or lack thereof). The advice given was similar to my own thinking (as I posted). Whatever has happened in the past between members finds me sublimely indifferent. If you have advice, give it freely. If you don't, learn from it. If you just come to cut somebody down, that says much more about you than the target of your ire. Take it as you will. flemtone, don't mind these guys. A couple of people here have a strong animosity towards each other that goes beyond this forum. A conflict of personalities really. Guys, please try to stay within topic. OP is a new member. Please give him/her an enjoyable experience here. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flemtone Posted October 13, 2018 Members Share Posted October 13, 2018 Thanks, Davie. It just kinda burned me that a new poster looking for advice walks into a cat-fight. C'mon, kids - let's play nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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