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Editing vocals, some dangers...


kickingtone

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I've never used Melodyne, but this video caught my attention because it discusses the objective nuances of vocals, and their subjective interpretations.

 

At the beginning you can see why you cannot apply Melodyne naively to vocals, for pitch correction. Later on in the video there was an ah-ha moment for me. This guy explains himself really well. He explains why he thinks something is an improvement, rather than simply declaring it an improvement. So, if you disagree with him, it is easier to pinpoint why.

 

If you follow shortly from the 20 minute mark, he edits the word "summer" in a song. Personally, I think that the vocalist absolutely nails it. I totally agree with the objective part of the engineer's analysis, but not the subjective interpretation. After editing, I think he has killed it. Perhaps not his favourite genre, I am thinking.

 

He interprets some of the inflection as the vocalist not knowing what he is doing, or being unsure, or caught betwixt and between. But, to me, the singer absolutely nails the nuance. He employs just the correct amount of contrast and indication, imo.

 

(Trolls may join this thread. Ignore them! Stay positive, folks! :thu: )

 

[video=youtube;zy4doS3pBqE]

 

 

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I'm not really a big fan of pitch correction programs. When overused it really takes away a lot of the emotion of a singer's voice. Natural vibrato becomes smeared and singer's timbre becomes less distinct. I would recommend using it sparingly for the occasional flat/sharp note and only when its out of pitch to the point of being distracting to the listener. I think if a note is 5-10 cents sharp or flat then it might still be acceptable. But if over a third of the vocal recording requires pitch correction then I would say the vocal needs to be recorded again.

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I think that you have to play it by ear. The temptation to apply percentages detracts from the quality of the editing. I was surprised myself to see how far out Melodyne had some of the notes, even though they sounded fine to me, and were made worse by the mechanistic editing.

 

In the first video, it says that Melodyne "averages out" the actual pitch trace, and it does emphasize that the blobs shown in Melodyne are really only handles, rather than anything precise. I think that this is where some of the questionable editing choices may be creeping in. I searched for a video on "Melodyne and vibrato", to see how sophisticated the "averaging" is. Some vibrato is "hanging vibrato". The intended pitch is the highest part of the vibrato, and the fluctuations are lower pitches. But there is also "proud vibrato", which is the opposite. Melodyne seems to leave that interpretation to the engineer. In the first (and next video) the engineer simply snaps the "average" or "pitch centre" to grid, which respects neither kind of vibrato. You could argue that that is a misinterpretation of what the vibrato is. Again, I would say that that is the danger of knowing something as a rule rather than having a feel for the sound, or more likely, the genre.

 

In this next video, I think the editing degrades the vocals, but the engineer "declares" it an improvement.

 

For example (1:10), he reverses the opening out of the vibrato and calls it "out of control". To me it sounds deliberate, and like good control. I hear this kind of effect a lot, and it gives the vocal an edge (for some genres only, obviously). Interesting to see a sound engineer quashing that very effect.

 

[video=youtube;xcsj-KdrZ6U]

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Interesting point hear Davie, as you saying that a 3rd of all the notes or a 3rd of a semi tone is the border line?

 

I am saying if 1 out of every 3 notes within a song are out of pitch then the vocal take is not worth keeping. In that case I would rather re-do the recording again. It's actually quite painstaking work for an audio engineer to correct that many notes.

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Davie you are right in what you are saying is that we should learn to pitch better then cheat and fool our selfs (you know who) by using the software. OK if your name is Bass/Baritone song writting scrooner to be (in weighting)(formely know as CD my fellow troll friend). Because he is a sound engineer)

 

Over the years I have mixed far more tracks that feature other singers than I have my own singing. Melodyne is just one of the tools in the box as usually there isn't chance to ask them to do it again. Singing lessons and learning about vocal techniques certainly helps to make more informed choices when it comes to editing.

 

It's not only a pitch tool though, it's also used for editing timing as well which can impact the final track just as much.

 

Also it's not just a tool for vocal processing it's actually very useful for other instruments. I used it on a track the other day where the guitarist let the final note in a solo part die off too quickly , it was seamless just to pull that note into Melodyne and extend it so it matched up with everything else.

 

It can do a pretty good audio to midi conversion as well , there was a track I remember from earlier in year where the bass didn't sound that great. Melodyne was able to convert the performance into a midi part which I then used to drive a Kontakt Instrument which actually sounded more realistic than the real bass part.

 

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suppose if you have a singer and song writer that is producing a new track and they are faily good at pitch and rhythm anyway then you can still use programs like this to brush it all up making it sound better before the track get relised to joe blog public

 

Yeah. I mean virtually every major record made for the past 20yrs has had vocal tuning applied to it. Sometimes it's more obvious than others. But there's loads of tools used to mix a track , compressors, limiters, eq, delays, reverbs etc.

 

Have a read of some of the Mix Rescue articles from Sound on Sound if you want an insight . I was trying to see if I could see one that specifically mentions Melodyne..this one does.

 

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniq...e-ollie-wright

 

and the good thing is you can actually download and listen to the parts individually so if you want to compare the vocal before it was edited Vs afterwards you can

 

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniq...e-wright-audio

 

 

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