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Are Singing Lessons Worth It - Before & After Comparison


CosmicDolphin

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Hey Folks

 

I figured I'd chimed in enough on other people's singing and the debate about taking lessons without really putting my mouth where my money is.

 

Here are two recordings I did of the same song two and a half years apart if anyone would like to hear the difference.

 

I calculate I've spent around £1300 on lessons and I also invested in a portable Zoom recorder which allowed me to record my lessons so I could go over them repeatedly on my own. I've practiced almost daily for at least 30 or 40 minutes, often more unless I've been sick or away somewhere.

 

I must say none of this stuff comes naturally to me so I feel likes it's been a bit of a struggle at times and against all my natural instincts. I know I've p*****d off my instructors at various points..not because I haven't put the work in but it seems like I'm quite introverted compared to their other students and it seems to exasperate them when I insist on singing whilst stood still with my hands in my pockets.

 

 

 

I think I've mentioned it elsewhere but before I had one on one singing lessons in 2015 , I did several 'study at home' type courses over about 5 yrs ( Sing with Freedom , Superior Singing Method etc) ..I mainly did those because I was too embarrassed to learn on to one but I think the help they gave was limited due to the nature of them.

 

CD

 

 

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Do you perform profesaly and have you got this money back?

Where these lessons $100/hr sype or £30/hr go round there house and sit in front of there piano?

 

No I don't perform professionally although I do write production music that gets used on TV and Radio.. I also write songs as well but I've only pitched a few of them so far. I think having singing lessons has helped me generally with my music. Ear training, learning harmonies ..that sort of stuff.

 

They were £30 per hour type lessons at the teachers studio , yes with a piano etc.

 

Thanks for the listen !

 

 

 

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Hey Folks

 

I figured I'd chimed in enough on other people's singing and the debate about taking lessons without really putting my mouth where my money is.

 

Here are two recordings I did of the same song two and a half years apart if anyone would like to hear the difference.

 

I calculate I've spent around £1300 on lessons and I also invested in a portable Zoom recorder which allowed me to record my lessons so I could go over them repeatedly on my own. I've practiced almost daily for at least 30 or 40 minutes, often more unless I've been sick or away somewhere.

 

I must say none of this stuff comes naturally to me so I feel likes it's been a bit of a struggle at times and against all my natural instincts. I know I've p*****d off my instructors at various points..not because I haven't put the work in but it seems like I'm quite introverted compared to their other students and it seems to exasperate them when I insist on singing whilst stood still with my hands in my pockets.

 

 

 

I think I've mentioned it elsewhere but before I had one on one singing lessons in 2015 , I did several 'study at home' type courses over about 5 yrs ( Sing with Freedom , Superior Singing Method etc) ..I mainly did those because I was too embarrassed to learn on to one but I think the help they gave was limited due to the nature of them.

 

CD

 

 

you sound alot more confident in the newer one, however fundamentally I hear very little difference in terms of vocal capability. You have pretty good pitch fundamentally within the lower range. And your voice has a nice quality to it. your voice sounds basically the same though, given that long a time frame.

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If you find the right voice teacher then voice lessons are definitely worth it. Regarding results it also comes down to how dedicated the student as well, a good voice teacher can take you far as long as you're willing to put in the work required to get there. The biggest advantage of being in a voice lesson is having someone else's objective but trained ear as well as to give you real-time feedback as you work on vocal adjustments. Not only does a teacher need to be knowledgeable and technical but also encouraging and personable, since a good teacher-student relationship is also important to making progress. In my opinion, those "study at home" vocal programs can be either hit or miss, since some methods can be questionable, but there are some that can be good as a supplement to singers with at least a basic foundation.

 

I had a few listens to your recordings, I definitely hear some improvement. Overall its more solid sounding now. Some things I noticed are a smoother onset of sound, and sustained notes staying in pitch better. Improvement is continual progress. If you found a method that works for you then just keep at it, these things take time but will one day eventually "click" and things seem to just fall in place.

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you sound alot more confident in the newer one, however fundamentally I hear very little difference in terms of vocal capability. You have pretty good pitch fundamentally within the lower range. And your voice has a nice quality to it. your voice sounds basically the same though, given that long a time frame.

 

I have to make a comment in this since it shows how we distort values so easily when we get lost on trying to achieve "things" on singing.

 

On one hand you say he sounds much more confident, good pitch, and good quality. On the other, you state "little difference in terms of vocal capability".

 

These things ARE what make someone capable when it comes to singing, nothing else (I would add rhythm articulation too, but its part of why it sounds more confident). Of course, everyone can day dream about how attempting lots of different qualities, going high, low, and then pretend they got better, but these simple, basic things are what will sell your show/recording/gig/whatever.

 

If you get to a point you can sing with confidence on a comfortable range, doesn't even need to go high, you will be on a position of offering your services as a singer that gets the job done, with quality. From there, then you can polish your skill and become more and more capable, dealing with high level material, multiple styles, more personality and opening more possibilities.

 

One of the reasons why lessons are a good idea is exactly getting exposed to real world and involved with other singers, knowing where you are getting into and what you will really need as opposed to seeking random goals that lead nowhere.

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So I have had another look at your song (the 2017 one)

And hear are bits I really do not like and all from the chorus

 

or are we danceing

and im on my knees

will your system be alright

 

As I said before it dose sound like a lack of compression in your voice to be able to hit those E4/G4 notes; but maybe I could be wrong..read on.

 

!

 

I agree, I still can't reach the highest notes in this song correctly, I can't keep the vocal chords connected for whatever reason

 

 

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I think this is a lack of muscular strength and training on those notes round and about G4 is the only way you will build muscular coordination.

You said you had lessons before, but did your teachers no train you to work on these note?

 

I don't think it's a lack of muscular strength, I've been doing exercises 5 days a week for about 4yrs now..the highest my singing teacher took me on an exercise was Bb4 I think..It depends on the type of sound you're making though ...it was lower than that when I started out for sure..I must have added 2 or 3 semitones. Maybe more..I never really measured it.

 

]

I can go one octave higher hear with out any problems so it is no a mission to mars for a male.

 

Seriously ? That sounds impossible for my voice, it just gets stuck.

 

ry doing sirens as high as you can go and try and hold onto the top note as long as you can, use this pitch detector with your microphone as a guide to see what note you are actuly singing https://www.flutetunes.com/tuner/.

 

Try singing scales on these notes, or even better make your own up hear http://www.apronus.com/music/flashpiano.htm. Even still sing one of those high notes (for you) on its own as loud and as long as you can and keep changing the vocal modes and valves.

 

And as ever correct allinment and breath support is critical hear on the high notes.

 

Already been doing them for years, there just seems to be a ceiling and whatever people do to get through it I just don't know what it is and nobody has been able to teach it to me..

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I thought it would be cool to share here too.

 

So first this was one of my attempts before taking lessons on a song that demanded a bit more, not that difficult but for me at the time, it was quite the challenge. Problems all around starting from the time signature ( I am kinda trying to fit the verses in a 4/4), melody, breaks, not legato and so on:

 

https://app.box.com/s/keeqnxmz6vjss4hfoftktqay3o963t4s

 

 

Then after a while training with my first voice teacher, who was not very technical unfortunately... It´s better, but not that much better, problems like opening vowels excessively on the chorus, the moment where the dynamic spike is necessary is messed up too, still no legato, interpretation left to chance:

 

https://app.box.com/s/cqvpwmus30vypt7dzmhxzkftmxntxaf1

 

 

Then after around a year training with classical technique (I continue to this day), which is just better all around:

 

https://www.soundclick.com/html5/v3/player.cfm?type=single&songid=11881799&q=hi&newref=1

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Then after around a year training with classical technique (I continue to this day), which is just better all around:

 

https://www.soundclick.com/html5/v3/...&q=hi&newref=1

 

But there are some very basic problems you still have not overcome.

 

For example, your words are slurred. It occurred to me that it may be due to your attempt at legato, but it is evident in all the clips.

 

You are pitchy. This is most evident on the -oh- vowel, where you consistently go flat. That is a very basic error beginners make and is a telltale sign of lack of support.

 

The -oh- vowel really exposes lack of support. Some singer cheat by shifting towards -eh-.

 

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I thought it would be cool to share here too.

 

That's interesting Felipe, I didn't realise you'd come that far. I just assumed you were one of those lucky people that naturally had a decent voice from the get go !

 

How long did it take you to get from the first song to the most recent ? I tried singing along but I just can't get into the range of something like the chorus in 'Iris' ..it seems totally stratospheric to me but we all have the same basic anatomy so there must be something fundamental that I am missing.

 

 

 

 

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[uSER=758061]CosmicDolphin[/uSER] oh yeah I had to work quite a bit. Let's see Iris first recording is from around 2007 and Dream on around 2009. I am not sure tbh, I don't have the original tracks anymore. That more recent recording of Iris, is from around 2012 if I am not mistaken, it should be redone also ahah, but it is better for sure.

 

Mid-high range is kinda of pita to work for guys, working chest voice first, extending it to around G or A4, then begin to work on passaggio and covering are a very good way to approach it.

 

Falsetto is also a useful tool to achieve control over closure/dynamics, for example making a beegees voice a major 3rd above the area you want to train, then jumping down to the pitch in full voice, with your focus on making the falsetto as light and metallic as you can, and making sure you have a flip as you go for the full voice.

 

Support is also very important, takes a lot of pressure to sing above G#, even on the sounds that are soft (as long as done in full voice). The muscle opposition will be strong.

 

The problem in general terms is not so much about pitch as it first seems, but instead a gap of dynamics/qualities. For us guys the norm above a certain point in pitch is to be restricted to shouting/yelling or making very soft sounds. So the solution is to fill up that gap of qualities and discover the intermediary qualities you have avaiable. In this sense, you could for example focus on a C4, and play around with dynamics, from the softer to the most aggressive quality you can use, it's also a good exercise.

 

 

 

Then there are the vowels, this often causes a wall to appear on the G4> area. We tend to adjust the resonances of our vowels as we go up in pitch to *follow* the base pitch you are doing. Take for example vowel AH, its first formant will be around 600/700Hz. If you are singing a A2, it's 110hz. If you go to a A3 (220), you probably will follow with those sounds too, which means a F1 around 810Hz or more. This is high, but still doable. If you go to a A4 (440), F1 will tend to go to 1K. You won't do that without elevating the larynx as much as possible and creating a very tight constriction on the oro pharynx, you will strain and you will never reach a Bb4 this way.

 

So you must learn to separate the vowel quality from pitch, even if you won't be singing like this. This makes vowels sound rounder, to put in a very lay way, you will make sounds that have an apparently low first formant, a dopey voice. If for example you begin making AH on the very low range, and ascend in pitch, making sure that NOTHING on your vocal tract moves even one inch, the vowels will progressively become rounder and eventually the fundamental gets above the first resonance (and open and close vowels become very similar).

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Major 3rd would be 4 semitones, but the interval does not need to be strictly that. As a general rule the larger it is, the easier the exercise becomes and the lighter you will tend to go when you flip back to full voice.

 

It helps with the coordination you need to control intensity.

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