Belting with Distortion (for Zeppelin)

[Life888]

I'm trying to sing Zeppelin songs,

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0kNV44VLBX9

 

and I can hit most of the high notes, but it feels empty. Like theres no "body" to it. I am starting to add some "fry" to it, and distortion, to make it sound more Plant. But I feel like when he is singing he is using chest and i am just using a distorted falsetto, but I it feels very easy and effortless to sing the way i am singing....is he using chest voice,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJROZvIvrjU

to get that bottom end? errrr, does my voice sound ok?

 

or does it sound wimpy and falsetto-y, i think it sounds good sometimes but at others it is bothering me.

 

or is this just the way my voice sounds????

 

but i dont want to **************** up my voice. i ttry and use chest and good technique for most things, but i dont think i can do for that.

[FelipeCarvalho]

Hi. I took a listen, the issue is exactly that you are staying in falsetto all the time. Plant did use falsetto on the higher parts, but he used full voice quite high too. Yours is still a kind of naive falsetto, you are going very bright with it, its the kind of thing you would do to sing Bee Gees, but it does not work so well with Led.

 

I really advice vocal training to get this going, its perfectly possible, but you will have to get your full voice to work very high. Being able to sing these verses full is important, then you chose where you will use falsetto and where not. You will also need to learn how to transition from full voice to falsetto without sounding like there is a change, which means being able to sing softly in full voice too.

 

Try working like this and see if it improves anything for you:

 

 

[Life888]

Hi. I took a listen, the issue is exactly that you are staying in falsetto all the time. Plant did use falsetto on the higher parts, but he used full voice quite high too. Yours is still a kind of naive falsetto, you are going very bright with it, its the kind of thing you would do to sing Bee Gees, but it does not work so well with Led.

 

I really advice vocal training to get this going, its perfectly possible, but you will have to get your full voice to work very high. Being able to sing these verses full is important, then you chose where you will use falsetto and where not. You will also need to learn how to transition from full voice to falsetto without sounding like there is a change, which means being able to sing softly in full voice too.

 

Try working like this and see if it improves anything for you:

 

 

cool thanks for the reply. lol no i dont want to sing like the bee gees. but i also dont want destroy my voice. have you sung led zeppelin? does it feel ok to do it, or does it feel like it's hurting your voice? i think i might have it down im going to post a comparison to what i think is the more robust way. in that video, i think i can do that type of voice, like when you make your jaw drop....

[Life888]

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1jVTc6znODD

 

ok, i recorded this, it's me singing in chest/head for the first line

[Life888]

ok heres heartbreaker. i really think i figured out how to "step in " to the sound now. I think i got it.....yes? i know theres pitch problems, but i literally just figured out how to sing like this and it's really wild, it feels like im a cowboy trying to ride a bull

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1LPRFQinIq6

 

 

 

[FelipeCarvalho]

Ah! Much better, just heard Heartbreaker.

 

If it is comfortable to do, stick to it, you seem to really nail the vibe for Led. Send more as you work on it! How did you get this going btw? What did the trick?

 

I sing a few, I can record and send something later if youd like!

[Life888]

haha thanks. yea I would love to hear how u approach Zeppelin singing . regarding how I am doing it ; it sounds funny but I tried to focus on the overall "feeling " of the lyrics and the whole persona that emanates from plant. I tried not to think about technique at all (other than the basic important technique of "wide open throat") and just express the lyrics themselves and try to really get the HUGE emotive explosive type of singing that he does. that's what I mean by "stepping in to the sound"; I think u have to literally pretend u r r plant----ie. the actual sonic output is a result of your attitude and your ability to "feel" the lyrics and lyrical "bluesy" energy

 

I started off my session singing "since I've been loving u" which is more raw and open and bluesy I think it's important to focus on the blues aspect to nail it

 

I still think I am using way too much effort to sing this way it's very taxing . plus after my session my voice dropped in pitch ; like it felt like my voice had this added bottom end power just in my speaking voice like after u talk for a long period ur voice drops or becomes way more resonant at low pitches

 

so idk if that is bad or good but I've never had that happen before

 

I sang like ten Zeppelin songs in a row but then dis another 20 without using all that full bottom end growl and I had no problems so

 

it kind of felt like I popped some cherry or something . the other thing is u can't be weak about it----u have to be bold and really belt it out ---//that's just the style it is----u have to "step into the sound" and not worry about overly precise technical stuff

[Life888]

ok, i think ive corrected this problem, in the heartbreaker example i was using way too much bottom end...i was basically just brute forcing it and it ****************ed up my voice

 

here's whole lotta love

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0HSQ3oKr1zE

yea the pitch is awful, but just focus on the timbre. hehe.

i figured out now, how to do this with minimal effort, properly with proper technique, i would call it "head voice/mixed" with alot of fry. this is the same technique that Plant, axl rose, and acdc singer all use. They are all using the same technique. I feel pretty solid now, it took me half of my session this morning to precisely get the right feeling going. The first half i could feel my voice start to bottom out again....so i knew i was doing something wrong, then once I got it going right, I could feel it-------it's like this sweet spot where the whole throat stays open----but something else is happening-----you have to push from the diaphragm, and it pushes the timbre into the right area. and use fry, but not fry like thick fry, it's like a fry that is very "light" but it still totally covers the fundamental, it "coats" the tone i would say-----it almost feels like half fry and half clean head tone....if that makes sense....the way i can tell i have it down now, (at least i have it in memory what the feeling is like) is because it is very effortless, and it actually feels really nice when you hit that equilibrium point, it's in th epocket and it becomes quite effortless, and it's definitely not falsetto.

 

like i was singing to acdc, and i never could figure out how he got that voice, but i know now. it's pretty special. lol

[Life888]

ok heres a snippet of dazed and confused, i think i got this down now, but it still is something that I am trying to perfect. im finding the key is to always start with a good clean tone, and then add distortion. th eproblem happens when yhou try to add distortion BEFORE the tone, that will **************** up your voice

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1xovZk3J6aQ

 

but you think that because it's this hardcore zeppelin voice that you have to add so much distortion, thats so wrong, and bad, you have to always use a clean tone first, and then start coating it in distortion, very gently

 

 

 

[FelipeCarvalho]

Cool man. Yep, clean comes first. I will try to record something this weekend and send it over on the forums, Led is awesome Keep it up and send some more stuff as you figure it out!

[Life888]

Cool man. Yep' date=' clean comes first. I will try to record something this weekend and send it over on the forums, Led is awesome Keep it up and send some more stuff as you figure it out![/quote']

 

i was going to post today and yesterday, its literally like i am learning new aspects of it daily, the progress is very fast-----another thing that is helping me is i am literally just listening very close to plants voice and immediately attempting to replicate his sound. but im also trying to do some acdc----the acdc guy is very distorted, and he basically ONLY uses distortion---as opposed to plant who use both clean and distortion-----the distortion is like an effect that you can choose to turn on or off for emphasis i think

[Life888]

ok i think i nailed this pretty good. http://vocaroo.com/i/s0DEYMjlCqpl

what do you think?

Dazed and Confused

i was very relaxed, but it is very hard not to push it too hard. and once you push it just too hard with distortion your throat gets burnt up, like in a bad way...so my advice for anyone trying to use this technique is too always pull back when it starts to burn, dont keep pushing, just back off completely...and try to only go for a clean tone, the only problem i am having now, is this distortion is starting to creep into ALL of my singing now, it's becoming part of my vocal personality, i'm still developing my own personality vocals wise so idk

 

i'm starting to get tired of trying to sing other peoples the way they sing, it's good to learn new techniqures but sometimes it's just a really big mismatch...like me trying to sing elton and billy joel is an odd match....so i think i m just going to singing my own style, like addding in distortion and really roughing those types of songs up....but they arent really rough types of songs.

[nomadh]

I liked the last one. I wish I could have heard the progression but all the earlier recordings are deleted.

Good sound. Its nice to hear. Its not plant but very compatable tone. Sure wish I could do something like yout. I can get falsetto fry but absolutely no bottom end. When I do it it sounds like the top half of brian Johnson ac/dc.

[Life888]

thanks. yea this RECOrding already sounds bad compared to my newest ones . lis I am seeing massive improvement daily. every session. the main thing I am doing now is trying to not coat it with so much distortion---but it's just a matter of time; I am starting to be able to replicate almost exactly

 

the way to get the fullness and bottom end is to make sure you are using chest/head/mix voice first . do a slow pitch bend starting low in chest and keep goin higher and at a point your voice needs to add the distortion ----I think the distortion actually makes it easier to stay in head voice and not go to falsetto . pure falsetto . I can now feel the difference between pure falsetto and "pingy" high pitch head/mix voice . but "high pitch pingy" feels different still from high pitch distortion. there's multiple different ways to sing the high pitches

I will post a comparison showing what I'm talking about

I liked the last one. I wish I could have heard the progression but all the earlier recordings are deleted.

Good sound. Its nice to hear. Its not plant but very compatable tone. Sure wish I could do something like yout. I can get falsetto fry but absolutely no bottom end. When I do it it sounds like the top half of brian Johnson ac/dc.

[Life888]

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0YF5HFCgF9I

this is a sample to show the difference starting from

 

pure falsetto,

 

then deeper falsetto,

 

then elton john falsetto (i call it...it sounds like a duck quacking kind of or like distorted hollow falsetto)[this was also what i was using in the first post to do the high parts for led zeppelin but i was also adding more distortion],

 

then heavy distortion head/mixed voice (this is the region you want for the belting bluesy heavy rock robert plant acdc stuff),

 

then less distortion head/mixed voice (tried to do pure but throat too scratchy---this is the region for like normal singing of rock parts, but alter the loudness and other variables for effect),

 

then pure chest voice

 

then pure chest with some distortion(but it goes into mixed)

 

then i did i think kind of axl rose sound at the end by accident.

 

once i get into chest voice, it's hard for me to actually keep it in complete chest voice to go that high, so it starts to waver into mixed voice as you can hear maybe

 

the differences are subtle, but they are different

 

my throat is still scratchy though so not totally as clean as i want it, it keeps wanting to add distortion

 

*it's hard to do heavy distortion good without overdoing it, only just right at the end of the sound did i actually get it in that sweet spot where i wanted it. it started off way to harsh and overly distorted

[Life888]

so i decided to literally only start focusing on zeppelin now, only on RP voice, it's almost like a entire study in itself. one thing i am starting to notice now, is the earlier stuff, zeppeling one two and three, it's seems to be easier for me to get those parts right. once i move into 4, zeppelin 4 his voice is like incredibly difficult to try and replicate, he is hitting these ultra high notes with ease and with such a good fundamental, and the dexterity is incredible. like trying to sing black dog, it is too much for me right now, it;s just too advanced, i know i can get there though. but when you think about, he has so much experience through the first 3 albums at that point. you can hear so much improvement starting on zeppelin 4 imo. theres just like a massive ability change there. it's inhuman almost. but there are also more special effects and harmonic layering so have to be aware of that. like some parts, you could sing either 1 of 2 parts that overlap but they create one wash of sound

[Life888]

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1ZkqvtdYdza

dazed and confused again, it's not just about getting the distortion, it's about being able to control the distortion, because RP uses levels of distortion, it's not like always max distortion like acdc

[Life888]

I lissened to the last clip you posted and I dont like that kind of music' date=' too much racket for me. but I would say its a hard sound to sing and you do sound like you have nailed it to me. Therfore the high notes sound OK to me. So well done[/quote']

 

ok thanks, i am way more relaxed with it, now, way more comftorble, here is black dog and since i been loving you

 

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0fjPmIkNzut

 

what ive found now, is theres multiple different registers that are happening, it's multi layers and techniqquues

[Life888]

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0uWQQZRrI8K

ok im feeling alot more comftorble now, i figured out how to use my belting voice with distortion, but then sometimes you can take some weight off the sound if u want.