Jump to content

Please review! SINGING WITH HALF A VOICE!


kickingtone

Recommended Posts

  • Members

I've kind of made a discovery. SINGING WITH HALF A VOICE!

 

Long story short, I was messing around, trying to create a lighter, less chesty sound than normal. Does this work? :D

 

Sorry, BE WARNED, I sound a bit like a dwarf at the beginning, but I soon get into my groove..

 

http://soundcloud.com/kickingtone/wtsci010lvp

 

It's a first cut, in more than one way. I have just magically discovered this way to cut down the chest resonance.

 

Is it an improvement on this..

 

http://soundcloud.com/kickingtone/wtsci004lvp

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I have just magically discovered this way to cut down the chest resonance.

 

It's in a higher key !

 

 

QUOTE=kickingtone;n31890528]I've kind of made a discovery. SINGING WITH HALF A VOICE!

Is it an improvement on this..

 

http://soundcloud.com/kickingtone/wtsci004lvp

 

Not to these ears, the deeper one sounded better. The new one has a squeezed sound, not pleasing to listen to. Why would you want to drop your chest voice anyway, I think most advise to extend it as high as possible si you can develop a good mix.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I've heard advice either way.

 

There appear to be some genres, where the deeper sound is less favoured.

 

Doesn't sound that awful to me, although I have always preferred darker or chestier sounding vocals. I even prefer mezzo sopranos over sopranos.

 

I wonder if it would sound ok in a mix, :-) It is a bit like e.g nasality. I don't like it in general, but it seems to work sometimes, imo.

 

(I've just tried it in the same key, and even I can't listen to that one twice.)

 

I have wondered why some sound engineers say that they filter out the lower frequencies of the vocals. IIRC the cut-off gets well into chest resonance territory.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I have wondered why some sound engineers say that they filter out the lower frequencies of the vocals. IIRC the cut-off gets well into chest resonance territory.

 

Well you get all sorts of low end stuff you don't want. Cars passing by , singers kicking the mic stand etc. So that routinely gets high pass filtered out.

 

The rest depends on the song and arrangement. But too much low end in a vocal can eat up a lot of space...which may be fine in a sparse acoustic track but it also depends on the singer and the mic too. In a pop or rock song there's already a kick drum and bass guitar, and you can remove low-end "mud" from the singer and they will actually"fill in" the low end of other parts like a vocal... make it sound deeper than it really is. it's a psychoacoustic phenomenon.

 

Rolling off some low end of the voice allows it to "sit" more easily in the track, it prevents it from masking the bass instruments and it accentuates the mid range which is where the really important frequencies are.

 

Listen to a good mix on a crappy mono transistor radio..no low end but the song is still recognisable and the vocal is perfectly audible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
Rolling off some low end of the voice allows it to "sit" more easily in the track' date=' it prevents it from masking the bass instruments and it accentuates the mid range which is where the really important frequencies are.[/quote']

 

So, you end up using only half the voice. :D

 

This way of singing could save you the trouble. But more seriously, it is why I wondered if it would sound OK in a mix.

 

If I don't want to sound too "classical", I have to develop lighter mixes. Although rolling off the base would probably achieve the same thing.

 

 

Rolling off a lot of base..

 

http://soundcloud.com/kickingtone/btpmf010lvf2000

 

I dunno. It just sounds less "classical" to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

So, you end up using only half the voice. :D

 

This way of singing could save you the trouble. But more seriously, it is why I wondered if it would sound OK in a mix.

 

If I don't want to sound too "classical", I have to develop lighter mixes. Although rolling off the base would probably achieve the same thing.

 

 

Rolling off a lot of base..

 

http://soundcloud.com/kickingtone/btpmf010lvf2000

 

I dunno. It just sounds less "classical" to me.

 

Now it just sounds like a tinny recording of someone singing classical..more to it than just EQ...yes it helps up to a point. There are so many factors to weight up during a mix, there's not really any way as a singer you could second guess these things. Just to sing it in the best possible way for the song & your performance and let the mixer worry about the rest of it. No two people will mix the same way...actually the same person wouldn't come up with the exact same mix if they did it twice over..it's a creative process.

 

There's more to it than just reducing the amount of low end though , it's partly a larynx thing - those deeper / chestier low larynx sounds are more classical sounding because we lower the larynx.

 

Good video here https://voicelessonstotheworld.com/episode/15

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

The first sample has a small improvement on the last part, where you let the larynx elevate a bit and get a bit stronger, but the tendency to darken and lack of support is still present. You are on "half voice" position pretty much all of the time on your singing, too high placement, too much covering and darkening, on the high parts it will sound better IF you let the energy build up.

 

If you manage to open up the low range somehow and move out of this over darkened quality (sound like you are sleepy all the time, or a catholic priest giving a boring lecture), then this coordination might become useful later on, right now it really isn't useful and kinda pointless.

 

Also its worth noticing that rolling off the lows on a vocal recording does not affect "chest resonance" or chest voice for that matter. The first is merely a sensation, the second is mostly a character of the vowels being used. Its a normal practice to cut information that is not relevant for the instrument being recorded, on vocals a roll off bellow the lowest possible fundamental is quite safe. For most melodies of male pop singers, 100Hz, sometimes even higher cut frequency is fine. For a more crowded mix, this can be automated.

 

Of course, like with all recording techniques, you should evaluate the results by listening before/after with a matched volume to decide if the roll-off is a good idea.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Well, Felipe, I have read many of your posts, not only on this forum.

 

As you are probably aware, I disagree with almost your entire thesis, style preferences and diagnoses, on singing. I don't need to elaborate.

 

However, I am sure that those people who have heard you sing, and wish to sing the way you do, would find your comments helpful.

 

On their behalf, thank you. :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

Only useful thing he said is to practice variation.

 

I've seen some of his other videos. I don't count this as one of his best or better informed.

 

I would rather listen to Franco Tenelli, who did a video on the difference between various genres. Tenelli does have a big enough voice to know and feel what he is talking about.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
Well, Felipe, I have read many of your posts, not only on this forum.

 

As you are probably aware, I disagree with almost your entire thesis, style preferences and diagnoses, on singing. I don't need to elaborate.

 

However, I am sure that those people who have heard you sing, and wish to sing the way you do, would find your comments helpful.

 

On their behalf, thank you. :D

 

Not sure of who exactly you are, are you killerku from TMV? Even if you resent my advices that much, the whole sleepy voice thing is not doing you any good, just saying!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Even if you resent my advices that much, the whole sleepy voice thing is not doing you any good, just saying!

 

Let me put it a bit more clearly.

 

Someone who critiqued my voice said something along the lines of "you've got just the right amount of yawn and cry in your voice".

 

That was his opinion. "Correct amount of yawn" for him was "sleepy voice" for you.

 

You see, I have no reason to rate your stylistic choice above both his stylistic choice and my stylistic choice. it is called knowing your target audience.

 

I am not trying to sound the way you like. I know from listening to your singing. We are poles apart when it comes to deciding what sounds good. I already have a style that I understand, and some other people understand. So, the diagnosis and "fix" part of your post is not relevant. The rest is. It may well have been relevant if we were all trying to sound the way Felipe likes. But we are not.

 

Expressing your opinion is fine. And graphic opinion is fine too (for me, 'cos I've gotta thick skin). It is more accurate and unequivocal. The style sends you to sleep. That's life, I'm afraid. One man's meat is another man's poison. It is not a cause of any resentment on my part.

 

Equally interesting, or perhaps more so, would be you describing what you like in the way YOU sing, or how singers whom you like sing. Maybe I would get to broaden my appreciation. You'd have to be quite specific, though.

 

The whole question of why we like what we like is very complex, but fascinating. Often it is very cultural. Here is a sound from the land of my forefathers :-)

 

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1ggG7naaixS

 

Call-response. The hectic rumble of the djembes melting into a soothing melody line -- all the trials and tribulations of life melting into a bigger spiritual journey. Maybe, if you are not from the culture, you won't feel it. The thing made me move even as baby.

 

Soothing or soporific? Or maybe both.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Hahaha you don´t understand, its not an "opinion" and there really isn´t such thing as the "right amount of yawn". You are supposed to sing, not yawn, I will demonstrate it later when I have some time using one of your tracks and doing the same, it will become much more clear.

 

Cheers!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I think from the bits & pieces I've heard Kickingtone, you need to do more work on the basics and not put the cart before the horse.

 

Whether you like the way Felipe sings or not is kind of irrelevant, as the underlying tenets of the various singing methodologies are broadly similar. Style is the icing on the cake and where they diverge somewhat but unless it's underpinned with solid technique you can find yourself spending time on things that don't really help you.

 

I don't presume to know what your singing goals are but four years is a pretty long time to be working on your voice and still sound like you do.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
Hahaha you don´t understand, its not an "opinion" and there really isn´t such thing as the "right amount of yawn". You are supposed to sing, not yawn, I will demonstrate it later when I have some time using one of your tracks and doing the same, it will become much more clear.

 

Cheers!

 

All it means is that your opinions are fixed and rigid, which is precisely the thing I was talking about, LOL. It often surprises me that people of your intelligence have such conceptual difficulties in some basic areas.

 

In terms of stylistic choice, all I really have to pay attention to is people who like the style. That's not you, and it's not CosmicDolphin. If we agreed on style, and I wasn't pulling off the agreed style, then technical advice would be in order. You can't give somebody technical advice on what they are not trying to do. You can only express your stylistic opinion. And thank you for you opinion.

 

I am actually really looking forward to your demonstration. Please do this one. I am genuinely curious as to what you voice does with it.

 

 

I am sure tha CosmicDolphin will find whatever you do "awesome". That's the way it goes :D

 

PS However I may come across, I know this. Everything I say is opinion, just like yours, at the end of the day. It is so obvious, I just don't bother to keep reminding you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
I think from the bits & pieces I've heard Kickingtone, you need to do more work on the basics and not put the cart before the horse.

 

Whether you like the way Felipe sings or not is kind of irrelevant, as the underlying tenets of the various singing methodologies are broadly similar. Style is the icing on the cake and where they diverge somewhat but unless it's underpinned with solid technique you can find yourself spending time on things that don't really help you.

 

I don't presume to know what your singing goals are but four years is a pretty long time to be working on your voice and still sound like you do.

 

 

Sorry CosmicDolphin, I've heard it all before. SEVERAL TIMES from some people. It's like a mantra and it's not making any impression on me, and I don't see why that would matter to you. Or maybe I do :-)

 

My advice would be this. If you were to sing to 10,000 people with random musical tastes, and 100 people liked it, and fewer that 5,000 people got irritated, you are doing FANTASTIC. Whatever delusions of grandeur anyone may aspire to, it's a delusion.

 

That should put in perspective your personal opinion, my personal opinion and Felipe's personal opinion, no matter how IMPORTANT we may feel. The world is simply too huge. It is better to take your style to people who like it than change it for people who don't.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

That should put in perspective your personal opinion, my personal opinion and Felipe's personal opinion, no matter how IMPORTANT we may feel. The world is simply too huge. It is better to take your style to people who like it than change it for people who don't.

 

I'm not talking about personal stylistic preferences, or opinion....being pitchy and out of tune isn't a style....having a voice sounds that shaky isn't a mattter of opinion.....exploding off your consonants isn't a stylistic choice.... it's just a lack of basic technique. If you prefer to explore all these advanced techniques instead of mastering the things that WILL make strengthen your voice and improve your pitch etc. then that's up to you.

 

It only matters because you posted it in a singing forum saying 'please review' ..so I did.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

I'm not talking about personal stylistic preferences, or opinion....being pitchy and out of tune isn't a style....having a voice sounds that shaky isn't a mattter of opinion.....exploding off your consonants isn't a stylistic choice.... it's just a lack of basic technique. If you prefer to explore all these advanced techniques instead of mastering the things that WILL make strengthen your voice and improve your pitch etc. then that's up to you.

 

It only matters because you posted it in a singing forum saying 'please review' ..so I did.

 

Yeah, your review is an opinion (which happens to be clearly morphing :D ). I'm sorry if I gave you the impression anywhere that it is more than that.

 

Also, what you don't realize, and Felipe has forgotten, is that he has commented on my singing before. I'll happily go with what he and a couple of other folk (who sing for a living, btw) said at the time, and he has clearly forgotten. :-)

 

And I'll put your shifting down to, you know...some psychological frustration...which tends to happen a lot with people who think their opinions are more than they are.

 

Of course, "half voice" is never going to be a technique. I am quite flattered if you are reviewing it as one. It must sound a lot better than I imagined. It was just an extreme exercise in anchoring the breath as high as I could and seeing what it sounded like. I am not sure I can rely on your shifting opinions.

 

Yeah, the exercise felt useful, so I will be continuing with it.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Yeah, your review is an opinion (which happens to be clearly morphing :D ).

 

Not really ..the discussion morphed - I had the same opinion all along..originally we were talking about which one sounded better ( relative to your full or half voice recording ) ..that's different to how I felt about them subjectively. I didn't "like" either especially but I preferred one MORE than the other which I think was the original question.

 

Also, what you don't realize, and Felipe has forgotten, is that he has commented on my singing before. I'll happily go with what he and a couple of other folk (who sing for a living, btw) said at the time, and he has clearly forgotten. :-)

 

What did they say ?

 

I'll put your shifting down to, you know...some psychological frustration...which tends to happen a lot with people who think their opinions are more than they are.

 

Opinions like ****************************s...everybody's got one...but it does come from a place of experience. Today for instance I had my regular singing lesson and we worked on song I've written where I finished all the music but my original vocals are sub par and lacking "something". Part of that something is lots of little things that I would probably never figure out on my own, I just don't have the natural ability, the gift or the ear for it gained from years of training. But I know once I've practised and implemented her suggestions that I'll be able to record a much better vocal for my song. I know this because we've done it with other songs and if it didn't work I wouldn't keep going.So my opinion comes from walking the walk as it were.

 

Of course, "half voice" is never going to be a technique. I am quite flattered if you are reviewing it as one

 

Well I must say I've never come across it before and I didn't like it much..maybe it is a "thing" somewhere but I don't think I'll be trying it anytime soon

 

It was just an extreme exercise in anchoring the breath as high as I could and seeing what it sounded like. I am not sure I can rely on your shifting opinions.

 

My opinions remain steadfast, but I'm no expert on singing, just someone who's worked hard to improve but I know what has worked ( or not worked ) for me

 

Yeah, the exercise felt useful, so I will be continuing with it..

 

And this is where we diverge..it didn't sound like it had any practical use to me and I suspect there's probably 100's of exercises out there that would be more useful for where you are right now. However you choose to proceed though why not start building your voice at the foundations?...Go train with those guys you admire..and if you can't afford their fees, train with the guys they taught..or least someone who believes the same methodology you do. It would help you a lot more than self selecting your own bits and pieces that you'd picked up from Youtube, however good the people you are watching.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
Today for instance I had my regular singing lesson and we worked on song I've written where I finished all the music but my original vocals are sub par and lacking "something". Part of that something is lots of little things that I would probably never figure out on my own' date=' I just don't have the natural ability, the gift or the ear for it gained from years of training. But I know once I've practised and implemented her suggestions that I'll be able to record a much better vocal for my song. I know this because we've done it with other songs and if it didn't work I wouldn't keep going.So my opinion comes from walking the walk as it were.[/quote']

 

Everything you have said fits the mould of someone who is very suggestible.

 

There are people with god complexes just hovering to prey on suggestible folk. They have figured out that this is the arena for them.

 

You have to know where the line is between someone who is giving you advice, and someone who has a god complex. Biggest giveaway is those who believe their opinion is gospel truth. Some actually get to the point where they genuinely can no longer tell the difference, because they have been so successful zapping weak-minded people with their "thunderbolts".

 

People react differently. I have seen umpteen "confessionals" like yours above, by people who go into appease, kow-tow and ingratiate mode. Other folk simply collapse, like that dude who tore down all his soundcloud postings and vowed never to sing again.

 

That's the only reason I am commenting, really. I don't care that much how you see it. But I wouldn't advise anyone new to fall at this hurdle. That dude who tore down all his uploads made the mistake in his enthusiasm of starting an "I've made an awesome cover" thread. I betcha there were folks itching to tear him down before even opening that thread, and he took it all to heart.

 

I didn't get to listen to his soundcloud clip, but I would definitely have encouraged that confidence he had. He even had a show lined up, which would have given him invaluable experience. I would have listened to his clip, praised what I thought was the best bit, mentioned what I thought could change IN MY OPINION and left it at that. Maybe he would have developed his style and looked back each year, thinking, "nah, I wasn't awesome a year ago, but I am now!" That's improvement. So what if he is confident all the way through! Good on him!

 

Anyway, it appears that he let certain types get to him with their god complexes and inferiority complexes, or he just collapsed all on his own.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Everything you have said fits the mould of someone who is very suggestible.

 

Lol..You are a poor judge then, I'm the least suggestible person you could wish to meet. Even my personality profile at work says I'm a sceptic with a tendency towards stubborness. I'm an atheist who is quite happy to tell any religious people that come knocking that they are gullible.

 

I'm actually a fairly objective and analytical person.

 

 

There are people with god complexes just hovering to prey on suggestible folk. They have figured out that this is the arena for them.

 

 

And these people are ...........??? Do you mean the Lunte's , Manning's, etc ?

 

 

You have to know where the line is between someone who is giving you advice, and someone who has a god complex. Biggest giveaway is those who believe their opinion is gospel truth. Some actually get to the point where they genuinely can no longer tell the difference, because they have been so successful zapping weak-minded people with their "thunderbolts".

 

Ha....I don't think any of the local voice teachers across the country have a God complex. At least not the ones I have met. They do train and have qualifications/ accreditations to teach people along with relevant experience.

 

Some of the people who sell their courses online, sure they probably make a lot of money out of gullible people. I bet a high percentage of the folks that buy them make only a small improvement before giving up and waiting for the next Youtube 'instant tip'. You know why ? Because there is no way these courses can give individual advice. And that is what's needed...that's actually how the people who make these courses try to upsell you and then charge two or three times what you could get the same advice for locally.

 

People react differently. I have seen umpteen "confessionals" like yours above, by people who go into appease, kow-tow and ingratiate mode. Other folk simply collapse, like that dude who tore down all his soundcloud postings and vowed never to sing again.

 

React to what?

 

Confessional ? I'm not religious remember. I have no idea what you mean? Appease who ? My singing teacher ? Why would she need appeasing , She's a very good singer in her own right, currently rehearsing to tour a new show. She probably knows more about the voice than I ever will, but then again she has a terrible ear for mixing despite being an accomplished musician and performer.

 

We're all good at different things. Which guy took down his Soundcloud?

 

 

That's the only reason I am commenting, really. I don't care that much how you see it. But I wouldn't advise anyone new to fall at this hurdle. That dude who tore down all his uploads made the mistake in his enthusiasm of starting an "I've made an awesome cover" thread. I betcha there were folks itching to tear him down before even opening that thread, and he took it all to heart.

 

Well if you're going to put that as a title on an internet voice forum, it had better damned well be awesome or yeah, expect a hefty dose of brutal honesty. Underpromise..Over deliver...not the opposite.

 

It's like these terrible singers who go on X Factor, the ones they put in deliberately because they know they will get laughed at.

 

 

I didn't get to listen to his soundcloud clip, but I would definitely have encouraged that confidence he had. He even had a show lined up, which would have given him invaluable experience.

.

 

Or the show could have destroyed him..it all depends.If a few honest comments was enough to put him off then maybe he isn't ready to perform to a live audience.

 

I would have listened to his clip, praised what I thought was the best bit, mentioned what I thought could change IN MY OPINION and left it at that. Maybe he would have developed his style and looked back each year, thinking, "nah, I wasn't awesome a year ago, but I am now!" That's improvement.

 

Oh look...we've just gone full circle..so the thing that YOU would do...well that would be along similar to what a voice teacher would do in a lesson..except they have the qualifications, training, experience etc. and the good ones can actually sing whilst explaining to others how it's done.

 

So now I can look back each year now and hear I've gotten better..unlike the previous 20 when I more or less stayed the same.

 

That's why I have kept them up because they do work.

 

Anyway, it appears that he let certain types get to him with their god complexes and inferiority complexes, or he just collapsed all on his own.

 

His problem.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
Lol..You are a poor judge then' date=' I'm the least suggestible person you could wish to meet. Even my personality profile at work says I'm a sceptic with a tendency towards stubborness. I'm an atheist who is quite happy to tell any religious people that come knocking that they are gullible.[/quote']

 

You can't see the irony throughout your post. You are so stereotypically suggestible and predictable, it's a joke.

 

And these people are ...........??? Do you mean the Lunte's ' date=' Manning's, etc ?[/quote']

 

I have no idea what made you come up with those names.

 

Confessional ? I'm not religious remember. I have no idea what you mean? Appease who ? My singing teacher ? Why would she need appeasing ' date=' She's a very good singer in her own right, currently rehearsing to tour a new show. [b']She probably knows more about the voice than I EVER will[/b], but then again she has a terrible ear for mixing despite being an accomplished musician and performer.

 

lol, I have no idea who your singing teacher is or how good she is, but one, or both, of you must be very old.

 

And, even if your teacher doesn't have a god complex (usually a male thing), you put them on a pedestal, anyway. The irony.

 

Do you question anything about singing that your teacher tells you?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Granted there are some "names" out there making a lot of money selling their programmes as a "gateway drug"to overpriced lessons. That doesn't mean everyone teaching voice is a megalomaniac.Lol...That's an insane accusation, you might wanna take it up with the British Voice Association.

 

You may not realise but the majority of singers you admire have most likely had a voice teacher at some stage...from great Tenors to Pop Stars..go and do some research, there are actual recordings out there for some of them online.

 

Yes I ask questions all the time in lessons, students are encouraged to go and explore their voices too. Do I question the methodology? Now and then yes I do but Bel Canto technique ( which is the basis of my singing teachers methods ) is well proven over many years.Sure I have gone away and read up on it and I am happy that it is a well proven legitimate methodology and not just the latest fad.

 

The voice is an instrument. I have learned to play other instruments as well as production techniques from good teachers to level where I have had some of my instrumental music used in TV shows. Voice is no different in many respects in that it takes the right technique and gradual build up of muscle memory over time. It's just harder because it happens inside the body unlike learning to play guitar for instance so you can't see exactly what the teacher is physically doing, they can only describe a subjective sensation.

 

If you feel you can learn everything you need to improve your voice on your own, that's your choice and I wish you luck with it but I think that in another 3 years you'll be at a very similar level to where you are now. You can prove this objectively by recording songs to your best ability and then doing it a year later and comparing.

 

The proof is in the pudding as they say but for someone who :-

 

A - Doesn't have anything like a good a singing voice

 

B - Has spent 3 - 4 years working on it seemingly with no underlying game plan

 

and C - Has never actually had any experience of one to one voice coaching

 

Well, everything you've said on subject carries little to no weight as there is no evidence to prove otherwise.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
Granted there are some "names" out there making a lot of money selling their programmes as a "gateway drug"to overpriced lessons. That doesn't mean everyone teaching voice is a megalomaniac.Lol...That's an insane accusation' date=' you might wanna take it up with the British Voice Association.[/quote']

 

Well, it's your own insane accusation. You are the only one who has mentioned such a stupid idea.

 

You say you are a nuts and bolts type of person, but you don't seem to be logical minded enough to know what the contention is. There is no point even responding to your next few paragraphs.

 

 

The proof is in the pudding as they say but for someone who :-

 

A - Doesn't have anything like a good a singing voice

 

B - Has spent 3 - 4 years working on it seemingly with no underlying game plan

 

and C - Has never actually had any experience of one to one voice coaching

 

Well, everything you've said on subject carries little to no weight as there is no evidence to prove otherwise.

 

You sound as if you have an inferiority complex. I wonder why that is?

 

Hearing you get all steamed up about my voice is very flattering. However, you'd do better to address whatever inadequacies you are experiencing, rather than making vain attempts to validate them?

 

Your reaction is so obviously to do with all your frustration over your 20 lessons and years of stagnation, during which you were no doubt championing them and behaving the same way as now. Anyone who has not gone through your disappointment is like a red rag to a bull for you. It is classic inferiority complex and negative personality trait.

 

If you want to progress, you need to adopt a positive attitude to your own singing, as I said before. If you are happy with yourself, your attitude will change.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

Well, it's your own insane accusation. You are the only one who has mentioned such a stupid idea.

 

 

Errrmm ...scroll back up & read your own posts ...it was you that put that notion out there. I merely asked to whom you were referring

 

There is no point even responding to your next few paragraphs.

.

 

That is because you are suffering from confirmation bias

 

 

You sound as if you have an inferiority complex. I wonder why that is?

 

 

God Complexes, Inferiority Complexes, Insanity...Sounds like you've been reading the Dummies guide to Psychology ..I wonder why that is?

 

However, you'd do better to address whatever inadequacies you are experiencing

 

Yes. I take lessons, I receive feedback, I go away and train on the exercises and surprise surprise over time I improve..a lot more than you seem to have judging from your Soundcloud recordings

 

 

Your reaction is so obviously to do with all your frustration over your 20 lessons and years of stagnation, during which you were no doubt championing them and behaving the same way as now. .

 

Ha - I'm not sure you've even understood anything I've said

 

I said in the other thread the only frustration was wasting 3-4yrs trying Singing Success, Sing With Freedom, Superior Singing Method and gaining nothing more than minor improvements. And no I never championed any of them, I just worked through them as per the instructions.

 

And I never said anything about 20 lessons...20 months of personal lessons..Waaaay more progress than years of the above

 

Anyone who has not gone through your disappointment is like a red rag to a bull for you. It is classic inferiority complex and negative personality trait.

 

You really have got the whole thing backwards haven't you? You must be special in some way.

 

I originally posted because I don't want other people to waste money on B/S singing courses that don't deliver on the promises they advertise and if one person reads this and thinks " I know..maybe I won't spend £200 on "Singing To Win " and I'll research people who teach voice in my area instead and maybe do a trial lesson" then I haven't wasted my time.

 

If you want to progress, you need to adopt a positive attitude to your own singing, as I said before. If you are happy with yourself, your attitude will change.

 

Lol , my attitude to learning is perfectly sound. I have proved it by setting myself goals and achieving them. Part of that is finding expert mentors and taking on board their critique, the other is hard work and a lot of practice. If I had never done that I wouldn't get paid by PRS every quarter for my music earnings now.

 

You on the other hand don't believe you can learn from others that have more expertise and that by doing all these strange little exercises that you've chosen for yourself you will somehow become the next Paul Simon. I've come across Walter Mitty type character like you before...keep dreaming.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

Errrmm ...scroll back up & read your own posts ...it was you that put that notion out there. I merely asked to whom you were referring

 

 

That is because you are suffering from confirmation bias

 

 

God Complexes, Inferiority Complexes, Insanity...Sounds like you've been reading the Dummies guide to Psychology ..I wonder why that is?

 

 

Yes. I take lessons, I receive feedback, I go away and train on the exercises and surprise surprise over time I improve..a lot more than you seem to have judging from your Soundcloud recordings

 

 

Ha - I'm not sure you've even understood anything I've said

 

I said in the other thread the only frustration was wasting 3-4yrs trying Singing Success, Sing With Freedom, Superior Singing Method and gaining nothing more than minor improvements. And no I never championed any of them, I just worked through them as per the instructions.

 

And I never said anything about 20 lessons...20 months of personal lessons..Waaaay more progress than years of the above

 

 

You really have got the whole thing backwards haven't you? You must be special in some way.

 

I originally posted because I don't want other people to waste money on B/S singing courses that don't deliver on the promises they advertise and if one person reads this and thinks " I know..maybe I won't spend £200 on "Singing To Win " and I'll research people who teach voice in my area instead and maybe do a trial lesson" then I haven't wasted my time.

 

 

Lol , my attitude to learning is perfectly sound. I have proved it by setting myself goals and achieving them. Part of that is finding expert mentors and taking on board their critique, the other is hard work and a lot of practice. If I had never done that I wouldn't get paid by PRS every quarter for my music earnings now.

 

You on the other hand don't believe you can learn from others that have more expertise and that by doing all these strange little exercises that you've chosen for yourself you will somehow become the next Paul Simon. I've come across Walter Mitty type character like you before...keep dreaming.

 

You are so confused, you don't even know what you are arguing for or against. I suggest you read the thread again, and try to understand it first, because you are not fooling anybody with your wild assertions that have revealed more about your hangups than anything else.

 

Seriously, I can see why you would struggle with an online course.

 

However, there are hundreds of people who have used Singing Success etc. and succeeded with it because they are SMARTER than CosmicDolphin.

 

There are hundreds of people who read the exercises and did them correctly, unlike CosmicDolphin, because they are SMARTER than CosmicDolphin.

 

There are hundreds of people who are not having to blame their singing course, unlike CosmicDolphin, because they are SMARTER than CosmicDolphin.

 

"CosmicDolphin couldn't manage it" does not translate to "singing courses don't deliver on the promises". It just means that CosmicDolphin couldn't manage.

 

"if one person reads this and thinks " I know..maybe I won't spend £200 on "Singing To Win " and I'll research people who teach voice in my area instead and maybe do a trial lesson" then I haven't wasted my time"

 

What a hero you think you are! That is how you spin your failure complex to yourself. You are doing it for everyone else!

 

Dude, you mentioned confirmation bias, but it didn't look as if you understood what that meant, either. Confirmation bias is exactly what you are doing, trying to deal with your sense of failure the wrong way. You are trying to tell yourself, that your failure to progress is not you, it is failure in the material, and nobody can succeed where you have failed. Yes, whether you realize it or not, your attitude probably is covered in Psychology for Dummies, Chapter One. Everything you have said harks back to your generalization of your failures to everyone else. Your defensive rhetoric began and accelerated straight after I pointed it out and called you "Mr. Negativity".

 

Actually, I cannot recall coming across anyone quite as predictable and stereotypical as you. LOL! Even when I said you are suggestible, you mentioned a psychometric test (a test designed to stereotype people) at your job, that says you are stubborn. LOL! The irony was lost on you, unsurprisingly. Suggestible people often do develop a stubborn streak for self-protection. It is the other side of the same coin: you tend to accept or reject without any proper deliberation, probably because you don't trust yourself to make correct decisions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...