Where have all the good songs gone?

[Al Koehn]

Are good songs and good lyrics important anymore when it comes to what the majority of music fans are buying? I realize that the music industry has for years catered to teens, but it seems that today's teens are less and less accepting of intelligent and well-written songs Am I wrong, or are too many current popular rock and pop bands and writers "dumbing down" their music in order to sell it? Are good chords, melodies and lyrics even accepted by today's young audience? I realize there are always a few great bands and artists who sell well, but they seem to be getting fewer and fewer. I know Im sounding suspiciously like my grandfather ("They just don't write songs like they used to, back in my day." ), but I'm beginning to feel that way. Is it the fault of the big labels? The artists? The audience? Or am I way off base? Opinions please.

[Bryan316]

Half the reason I don't listen to a LOT of mainstream music. I'm one of those underground metalheads, looking for bands with substance not sales.

 

But... I gotta admit... that gal from Paramore not only has a tremendous voice, she also can write some witty, sarcastic, and powerful lyrics.

 

But if you're looking for life-affirming revelations from the Top 40 hits... HAH!

[cherri]

There are still well written songs out there, but they aren't usually in the mainstream.

[JacieFB]

I ranted about this in the memorizing lyrics thread:

 

 

Conversely, especially with newer material in the modern rock genre, I find I have a hell of time with it. It's like a bunch of frustrated dudes who can't express themselves in a relationship and are doomed to repeat that relationship on an endless loop. Then they write a song about it which ends up on a continuous loop and, unfortunately, since the words are so vague, poorly written, and devoid of imagery, everyone THINKS they can relate to it. Boom. They sell a million records and everyone wants to hear it at the bar on Friday night. I have a hard time memorizing verse after verse of imagery-less pronouns, passive verbs, and endless inane ways of saying "I'm so jaded!"

 

 

 

There are some great lyricists out there. Motion City Soundtrack and Alkaline Trio are two examples that are in the mainstream or on the cusp of it.

[Lee Flier]

Yeah, there are still well written songs out there, but here's the problem as I see it:

 

1) Bands used to have the luxury of producers and other folks at their disposal who could do some quality control. Often times you can have a great idea for a song but it never quite achieves its potential because the arrangement doesn't quite work. With a little tightening and direction it might be great, but if the band is a typical indie band and recording themselves with no outside input, they may never happen upon the winning formula.

 

2) The flip side of that is that a lot of today's big-time producers and mix engineers take the arrangement completely out of the artist's hands. They'll have the musicians perform a couple of mediocre takes, sometimes not even sing all of the choruses, and just edit everything together in the mix. This sucks because although the artist may benefit from a producer's direction in the arranging process, the producer is not likely to come up with the best idea in the complete absence of the artist. Also, it's near impossible for the artist to turn in a moving performance if they have no idea what the finished arrangement is going to sound like. They can't make use of dynamics, slow builds, ebb and flow in the performance. The part is likely to sound nothing like what the artist played or sang by the time it's all over. It's ridiculous.

 

But, I think this too shall pass, and we'll see appreciation for good writing and organic performances again. Eventually.

[loveyourstarfish]

There are, just less so in the spotlight IMO.

 

Al, you might want to check out a Canadian singer/songwriter Hawksley Workman. Might be up your alley or I could be totally offbase haha

[Bobby D]

Are good songs and good lyrics important anymore when it comes to what the majority of music fans are buying? I realize that the music industry has for years catered to teens, but it seems that today's teens are less and less accepting of intelligent and well-written songs Am I wrong, or are too many current popular rock and pop bands and writers "dumbing down" their music in order to sell it? Are good chords, melodies and lyrics even accepted by today's young audience? I realize there are always a few great bands and artists who sell well, but they seem to be getting fewer and fewer. I know Im sounding suspiciously like my grandfather ("They just don't write songs like they used to, back in my day." ), but I'm beginning to feel that way. Is it the fault of the big labels? The artists? The audience? Or am I way off base? Opinions please.

 

hey Al, we're getting old, aren't we???? :wave:

 

I think in general there has been a loss of harmony and melody in popular music.

 

And that's not just the ranting of some old dude who doesn't like today's teenager music....

 

With the advent of sampling in the 80s, and the plethora of dance music and other really stripped down forms -- there has been a loss of harmonic materials.

 

with drum loops, and loops/samples of other instruments AND vocals -- we hear FAR LESS musical information than before.

 

what i am saying here is that we are in effect getting the "reader's digest condensed version" of music now, instead of the full story.

 

with so much of music these days being "canned" -- ie: samples and loops, some of them SO OVERUSED THAT YOU HAVE HEARD THEM A MILLION TIMES -- such as the Clyde Stubblefield "funky drummer" loop that is on thousands and thousands of tracks -- there has been a SEVERE REDUCTION in musical content.

 

obviously, there are still a lot of "real"bands out there.

 

but pop music -- the top 40 type stuff -- has continued to degenerate, just as foretold by music theorists like theodor adorno and walter benjamin.

 

dig it.

 

[indie_randr]

Man, one of the best songs with great lyrics to come out is Coldplay's "Cemeteries of London."

[search now]

hey Al, we're getting old, aren't we???? :wave: I think in general there has been a loss of harmony and melody in popular music. And that's not just the ranting of some old dude who doesn't like today's teenager music.... With the advent of sampling in the 80s, and the plethora of dance music and other really stripped down forms -- there has been a loss of harmonic materials. with drum loops, and loops/samples of other instruments AND vocals -- we hear FAR LESS musical information than before. what i am saying here is that we are in effect getting the "reader's digest condensed version" of music now, instead of the full story. with so much of music these days being "canned" -- ie: samples and loops, some of them SO OVERUSED THAT YOU HAVE HEARD THEM A MILLION TIMES -- such as the Clyde Stubblefield "funky drummer" loop that is on thousands and thousands of tracks -- there has been a SEVERE REDUCTION in musical content. obviously, there are still a lot of "real"bands out there. but pop music -- the top 40 type stuff -- has continued to degenerate, just as foretold by music theorists like theodor adorno and walter benjamin. dig it.

 

all this and In 1966 you had a cigar chomping old man record executive who said"I dont know ,put it out there and see if the kids will buy it" Hes been replaced by the coke snorting guy in the Die Hard movie. He knows what the kids want.

[careful now]

i think that one of the big reasons for amy winehouse' popularity is that she brought back certain old r&b songwriting sensibilities, and was a breath of fresh air in a cloud of boring, over-processed, over-manufactured stink.

 

i say "was" because at her rate of decay, i don't know how long the poor girl is going to last.

[intertelecasteroverdrive]

 

Are good chords, melodies and lyrics even accepted by today's young audience?

 

 

I remember reading an interview with a former accordion store manager in Cleveland. Typical grumpy old man bitching about how rock n' roll killed polka music and his livelihood.

 

It was funny because he was saying "this rock n' roll garbage is dumbed down for the kids. Silly lyrics like 'ooh ooh baby you drive me crazy!' What happened to good music like polka?" So "who stole the kishka" is poetry to this guy?

 

I guess my question to the OP is: what do you consider quality songwriting? Go back to the '20s and '30s and there was plenty of mindless drivel "let's dance dance dance, baby! Rooty tooty she's my doll!" that kinda crap. As much as I love blues, it's dominated by "woke up this mornin' feelin' 'round for my shoes" and whatnot. Not exactly deep poetry. Just a lot of hokum and innuendo. If anything, we're well beyond that in this post-modern, post-Dylan era.

 

My biggest pet peeve is that, no matter how much new ground gets broken in music, lyrics generally remain about girls, i.e. the girl who broke my heart, the girl who lied to me, the girl who got away, the girl who cheated on me, the girl with hot legs! etc. Even the edgiest, strangest indie bands tend to write lyrics like this.

[JacieFB]

I remember reading an interview with a former accordion store manager in Cleveland. Typical grumpy old man bitching about how rock n' roll killed polka music and his livelihood. It was funny because he was saying "this rock n' roll garbage is dumbed down for the kids. Silly lyrics like 'ooh ooh baby you drive me crazy!' What happened to good music like polka?" So "who stole the kishka" is poetry to this guy? I guess my question to the OP is: what do you consider quality songwriting? Go back to the '20s and '30s and there was plenty of mindless drivel "let's dance dance dance, baby! Rooty tooty she's my doll!" that kinda crap. As much as I love blues, it's dominated by "woke up this mornin' feelin' 'round for my shoes" and whatnot. Not exactly deep poetry. Just a lot of hokum and innuendo. If anything, we're well beyond that in this post-modern, post-Dylan era. My biggest pet peeve is that, no matter how much new ground gets broken in music, lyrics generally remain about girls, i.e. the girl who broke my heart, the girl who lied to me, the girl who got away, the girl who cheated on me, the girl with hot legs! etc. Even the edgiest, strangest indie bands tend to write lyrics like this.

 

Haha...this is a song about a girl...

 

Answer me this...how many times have you heard the world "girl" rhymed with "world"? How many times have you used the same rhyme yourself?

 

 

[SevenString]

Haha...this is a song about a girl... Answer me this...how many times have you heard the world "girl" rhymed with "world"? How many times have you used the same rhyme yourself?

 

I am proud to say, that out of the hundreds of songs (or more) that I have written, I have never even USED the word "girl".

 

 

Love songs seem to be anathema to me.

[eeglug]

Too many songs are being written on guitar. As much as I love guitar (my main instrument), it invites a lot of cliches and half-assed songwriting.

[JacieFB]

I am proud to say, that out of the hundreds of songs (or more) that I have written, I have never even USED the word "girl". Love songs seem to be anathema to me.

 

 

 

"The subject's been covered." - Joe Strummer

 

[search now]

 

I remember reading an interview with a former accordion store manager in Cleveland. Typical grumpy old man bitching about how rock n' roll killed polka music and his livelihood. It was funny because he was saying "this rock n' roll garbage is dumbed down for the kids. Silly lyrics like 'ooh ooh baby you drive me crazy!' What happened to good music like polka?" So "who stole the kishka" is poetry to this guy? I guess my question to the OP is: what do you consider quality songwriting? Go back to the '20s and '30s and there was plenty of mindless drivel "let's dance dance dance, baby! Rooty tooty she's my doll!" that kinda crap. As much as I love blues, it's dominated by "woke up this mornin' feelin' 'round for my shoes" and whatnot. Not exactly deep poetry. Just a lot of hokum and innuendo. If anything, we're well beyond that in this post-modern, post-Dylan era. My biggest pet peeve is that, no matter how much new ground gets broken in music, lyrics generally remain about girls, i.e. the girl who broke my heart, the girl who lied to me, the girl who got away, the girl who cheated on me, the girl with hot legs! etc. Even the edgiest, strangest indie bands tend to write lyrics like this.

 

 

 

Theres some gay songs out there about men I spose for you. ... Its the way it is . The pop song is about love and girls ,thats the art form. see?

[Da Mill]

I work with a bunch of guys ages mostly early 20's to 30's of different ethnic backgroumds and you'd think they'd listen to hip hop and modern stuff, but instead it's classic rock & oldies. I recognize all the songs, and have come to the conclusion that everyone, young and old appreciates a well written and performed song. Don't despair, it seems they outgrow the junk that they have been exposed to, and grow to appreciate music which is more satisfying.

[siday99]

Are good songs and good lyrics important anymore when it comes to what the majority of music fans are buying? I realize that the music industry has for years catered to teens, but it seems that today's teens are less and less accepting of intelligent and well-written songs Am I wrong, or are too many current popular rock and pop bands and writers "dumbing down" their music in order to sell it? Are good chords, melodies and lyrics even accepted by today's young audience? I realize there are always a few great bands and artists who sell well, but they seem to be getting fewer and fewer. I know Im sounding suspiciously like my grandfather ("They just don't write songs like they used to, back in my day." ), but I'm beginning to feel that way. Is it the fault of the big labels? The artists? The audience? Or am I way off base? Opinions please.

 

Al....if you're looking for good chords, melodies and lyrics try http://www.myspace.com/permanentlyremoved