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  • #91
    Originally posted by Easy Listener View Post
    You are still missing the point. It is not a disregard for human life and suffering. It is saying it is not the government's job. The government has specific responsibilities. Taking care of non-citizens only falls within their responsibility when they are in the government's custody. And even then they are entitled to only minimum care as needed to keep them alive. And the goal is to not let them get across the border to end up in the government's custody.
    IMO, that's a blah-blah argument. It doesn't hold water with me. The world is a much more complicated place than it was when the Constitution was drafted.

    George Washington was the man who never told a lie. Richard Nixon was the man who never told the truth. Donald Trump is the man who doesn't know the difference.
    Venezuela is what happens when you have Trump without the Madison.

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by Hoot Owl View Post
      IMO, that's a blah-blah argument. It doesn't hold water with me. The world is a much more complicated place than it was when the Constitution was drafted.
      Yes it is. But this is a simple issue. It is only complicated in some people's minds because it has to be to support their stand on it.

      Jimmy Carter gave us Reagan and Obama gave us Trump. It's instructional to note that our two worst presidents in my lifetime also gave us our two best presidents of my lifetime.

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by Easy Listener View Post
        You are still missing the point. It is not a disregard for human life and suffering. It is saying it is not the government's job. The government has specific responsibilities. Taking care of non-citizens only falls within their responsibility when they are in the government's custody. And even then they are entitled to only minimum care as needed to keep them alive. And the goal is to not let them get across the border to end up in the government's custody.
        But you DO say it’s the government’s job when you support the government forcing women to carry babies to term against their will in the name of the sanctity of human life

        its a clear hypocrisy.

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by Vito Corleone View Post

          But you DO say it’s the government’s job when you support the government forcing women to carry babies to term against their will in the name of the sanctity of human life

          its a clear hypocrisy.
          It always comes to abortion, doesn't it? When all the other arrows in your quivver fail to hit the target, you pull the one "guaranteed" "rights" issue that the right is "wrong" on.

          My position on abortion is as follows: Abortion is about the rights of at least three human beings - The mother, the father and the fetus. And it is not a federal government issue. It is not mentioned in the constitution exept where citizens are given the right to LIFE. And the fetus is both a human being and alive.

          So I believe a woman (or man) has the right to control their own body and can cut off their own limb or take their own life. But when another human being with a different blood system, heart, brain and DNA is involved. Their body is their body and nobody can "just decide" to take that life. That is why murder is illegal.

          It's very simple, really. Convince me the fetus is not a human being and I'll be as pro-abortion as the next guy. But until you convince me of that, I simply do not see it as a "woman's right to her body" thing. It is the other body (the fetus) and his/her rights we are talking about here. And if she is a female, well, I'm all over a woman's right to her body.
          Jimmy Carter gave us Reagan and Obama gave us Trump. It's instructional to note that our two worst presidents in my lifetime also gave us our two best presidents of my lifetime.

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by Easy Listener View Post

            I completely agree with Trump. Now, if private citizens want to voluntarily help them, by all means they should be allowed to do so.
            Based on the reaction of the judges I doubt that courts are going to sanction this Trump Administration cruelty.

            your agreement with his policies does not particularly surprised me either.
            __________________________________________________

            Is This Thing On?

            https://soundcloud.com/tom-hicks888

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by Tom Hicks View Post

              Based on the reaction of the judges I doubt that courts are going to sanction this Trump Administration cruelty.
              It was not lost on me what court we were talking about. That's half the fun of the article.

              Jimmy Carter gave us Reagan and Obama gave us Trump. It's instructional to note that our two worst presidents in my lifetime also gave us our two best presidents of my lifetime.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by Easy Listener View Post

                It always comes to abortion, doesn't it? When all the other arrows in your quivver fail to hit the target, you pull the one "guaranteed" "rights" issue that the right is "wrong" on.

                My position on abortion is as follows: Abortion is about the rights of at least three human beings - The mother, the father and the fetus. And it is not a federal government issue. It is not mentioned in the constitution exept where citizens are given the right to LIFE. And the fetus is both a human being and alive.

                So I believe a woman (or man) has the right to control their own body and can cut off their own limb or take their own life. But when another human being with a different blood system, heart, brain and DNA is involved. Their body is their body and nobody can "just decide" to take that life. That is why murder is illegal.

                It's very simple, really. Convince me the fetus is not a human being and I'll be as pro-abortion as the next guy. But until you convince me of that, I simply do not see it as a "woman's right to her body" thing. It is the other body (the fetus) and his/her rights we are talking about here. And if she is a female, well, I'm all over a woman's right to her body.
                It doesn't always come to abortion.

                I'm simply pointing out the obvious hypocrisy displayed by many on the right. On the issue of abortion, they put "life" above all other concerns. When it comes to people out in the desert dying because they are trying to get to somewhere safer than where they live now? Then suddenly "borders", "government's job" and how much money it might cost overrides their concern for basic human life.

                Forgive me if I see their abortion arguments as crocodile tears and based in pure politics in such instances, but it seems rather obvious to me.
                Last edited by Vito Corleone; 06-20-2019, 10:09 AM.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by Vito Corleone View Post

                  It doesn't always come to abortion.
                  Technically, no, but only technically.
                  [/QUOTE]

                  Jimmy Carter gave us Reagan and Obama gave us Trump. It's instructional to note that our two worst presidents in my lifetime also gave us our two best presidents of my lifetime.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Vito Corleone View Post
                    I'm simply pointing out the obvious hypocrisy displayed by many on the right. On the issue of abortion, they put "life" above all other concerns. When it comes to people out in the desert dying because they are trying to get to somewhere safer than where they live now? Then suddenly "borders", "government's job" and how much money it might cost overrides their concern for basic human life.

                    Forgive me if I see their abortion arguments as crocodile tears and based in pure politics in such instances, but it seems rather obvious to me.
                    It is only hypocritical from your perspective. You are not focusing on other issues that support their position.

                    It's like the old moral test:

                    Your baby is playing on a railroad track a hundred yards down from a switch. You are at the switch and a loaded passenger train is bearing down. The train will crush your baby - or - you can throw the switch and it will cause the train to take a different track that, 100 yards later, will take it off a cliff to certain death for all on board.

                    The conservative, reluctantly, lets the train run over the baby. The leftist throws the switch and condemns the conservative for being heartless and inhumane for not caring about the baby.

                    You can agree or you can disagree, but that is how this conservative sees this issue.
                    Last edited by Easy Listener; 06-20-2019, 10:14 AM.
                    Jimmy Carter gave us Reagan and Obama gave us Trump. It's instructional to note that our two worst presidents in my lifetime also gave us our two best presidents of my lifetime.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Easy Listener View Post

                      It always comes to abortion, doesn't it? When all the other arrows in your quivver fail to hit the target, you pull the one "guaranteed" "rights" issue that the right is "wrong" on.

                      My position on abortion is as follows: Abortion is about the rights of at least three human beings - The mother, the father and the fetus. And it is not a federal government issue. It is not mentioned in the constitution exept where citizens are given the right to LIFE. And the fetus is both a human being and alive.

                      So I believe a woman (or man) has the right to control their own body and can cut off their own limb or take their own life. But when another human being with a different blood system, heart, brain and DNA is involved. Their body is their body and nobody can "just decide" to take that life. That is why murder is illegal.

                      It's very simple, really. Convince me the fetus is not a human being and I'll be as pro-abortion as the next guy. But until you convince me of that, I simply do not see it as a "woman's right to her body" thing. It is the other body (the fetus) and his/her rights we are talking about here. And if she is a female, well, I'm all over a woman's right to her body.
                      The fetus IS the Mom. It's attached to her and fully dependent on her. Quit pretending it's something on it's own. Part of the time it's just a blob even. I'm not in the squirrely head of pro-lifers but I assume it's largely just a political tool to them. Late term though I can see their point, up to a point.

                      George Washington was the man who never told a lie. Richard Nixon was the man who never told the truth. Donald Trump is the man who doesn't know the difference.
                      Venezuela is what happens when you have Trump without the Madison.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Easy Listener View Post
                        It is only hypocritical from your perspective. You are not focusing on other issues that support their position.

                        It's like the old moral test:

                        Your baby is playing on a railroad track a hundred yards down from a switch. You are at the switch and a loaded passenger train is bearing down. The train will crush your baby - or - you can throw the switch and it will cause the train to take a different track that, 100 yards later, will take it off a cliff to certain death for all on board.

                        The conservative, reluctantly, lets the train run over the baby. The leftist throws the switch and condemns the conservative for being heartless and inhumane for not caring about the baby.

                        You can agree or you can disagree, but that is how this conservative sees this issue.
                        Spare us the analogies.
                        (The US will not survive the obama presidency. The world may not either.) Cuban Leaf

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Easy Listener View Post
                          It is only hypocritical from your perspective. You are not focusing on other issues that support their position.

                          It's like the old moral test:

                          Your baby is playing on a railroad track a hundred yards down from a switch. You are at the switch and a loaded passenger train is bearing down. The train will crush your baby - or - you can throw the switch and it will cause the train to take a different track that, 100 yards later, will take it off a cliff to certain death for all on board.

                          The conservative, reluctantly, lets the train run over the baby. The leftist throws the switch and condemns the conservative for being heartless and inhumane for not caring about the baby.

                          You can agree or you can disagree, but that is how this conservative sees this issue.

                          Always good for that.

                          Why don't we all just jump in front of the train? It will stop the arguing.

                          George Washington was the man who never told a lie. Richard Nixon was the man who never told the truth. Donald Trump is the man who doesn't know the difference.
                          Venezuela is what happens when you have Trump without the Madison.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Donny G
                            If you men want to lecture us on a woman's right's please start your own thread. This ain't the one.
                            I've noticed over time that you can start a thread here, but after that, they tend to develop a life of their own, and as much as you would sometimes like to direct them and keep them in line, well, that's just not always possible, Donny.
                            If you love them, set them free.
                            You can quote me on that, Donny.
                            Last edited by RogueGnome; 06-20-2019, 10:32 AM.
                            To you I'm an atheist; but to God, I'm the Loyal Opposition.

                            Originally posted by -NPC-;n32500008

                            Trump is not creepy. He is lovable and charming.

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                            • Originally posted by Hoot Owl View Post
                              The fetus IS the Mom.
                              They are no more the same person than conjoined twins are. And to suggest that one may be killed at the whim of the other is patently absurd.

                              At least, it would be in the circles I run around in. YMMV.

                              Jimmy Carter gave us Reagan and Obama gave us Trump. It's instructional to note that our two worst presidents in my lifetime also gave us our two best presidents of my lifetime.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by fretmess View Post

                                Spare us the analogies.
                                No.
                                Jimmy Carter gave us Reagan and Obama gave us Trump. It's instructional to note that our two worst presidents in my lifetime also gave us our two best presidents of my lifetime.

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