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Q: "Afterlife"

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  • Originally posted by Zig al-din View Post

    Yeah there might something to that - and more so in the case of our Judeo/Christian tradition, which is the foundation for a lot of positive values in our culture but unfortunately doesn't place any religious value whatsoever on the natural world. On the contrary, nature is something to subdue, conquer, and then transcend. It could also be because Christianity effectively killed off the great mother goddess, who had been part of religious traditions for thousands of years previously.

    Anyway, it makes sense that if there's no inherent feeling of nature being sacred (the way we feel about personal property or individual liberties for example), there's no reason why we shouldn't treat it like a garbage can or supply depot.

    Yeah we consider it beautiful and whatever, but that's not the same thing as giving it a sacred value. Like you say though, it's not something you can prove one or the other.
    I think nature is considered sacred. It doesn't bear the image of God as we do, but it is his creation as we are. It also suffers the corruption of the fall as we do, so even if we do consider it sacred, there is a necessary ambivalence as nature in all its majesty tends to kill us. And as doctorno pointed out we are commanded to practice good stewardship.



    While she's talking, I'll use my mind to think of other things. She can't stop my mind!

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    • Originally posted by Opposite Day View Post

      I think nature is considered sacred. It doesn't bear the image of God as we do, but it is his creation as we are. It also suffers the corruption of the fall as we do, so even if we do consider it sacred, there is a necessary ambivalence as nature in all its majesty tends to kill us. And as doctorno pointed out we are commanded to practice good stewardship.
      That's sacred not Sacred. Christianity got rid of the great earth mother goddess and designated all other gods as demons and devils, and many if not most of them were nature spirits of various kinds.

      ame thing happened in the New World. All nature gods and spirits were considered false and demonic and the believers were forced to convert. If Christianity had seen the sacred value in what they worshipped, it would have acted differently,,etc etc. So no. Christianity has its strong suit but this ain't it.

      Like our President says. Wrong. Wrong. WRONG.
      Last edited by Zig al-din; 05-22-2019, 09:40 AM.

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      • I regret that I have but one life to give to my country.
        tRump is NO star player. The ball simply bounced in his direction.

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        • Originally posted by Opposite Day View Post

          I think nature is considered sacred. It doesn't bear the image of God as we do, but it is his creation as we are. It also suffers the corruption of the fall as we do, so even if we do consider it sacred, there is a necessary ambivalence as nature in all its majesty tends to kill us. And as doctorno pointed out we are commanded to practice good stewardship.
          Actually, Mother Nature gives us life - albeit for the short term.

          Whether we are commanded or not, She deserves our respect.


          Last edited by onelife; 05-22-2019, 04:01 PM.
          Every worm, every insect, every animal is working
          for the ecological wellbeing of the planet.

          Only we humans, who claim to be the most intelligent
          species here, are not doing that. ~Sadhguru

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          • Originally posted by Zig al-din View Post

            That's sacred not Sacred. Christianity got rid of the great earth mother goddess and designated all other gods as demons and devils, and many if not most of them were nature spirits of various kinds.

            ame thing happened in the New World. All nature gods and spirits were considered false and demonic and the believers were forced to convert. If Christianity had seen the sacred value in what they worshipped, it would have acted differently,,etc etc. So no. Christianity has its strong suit but this ain't it.

            Like our President says. Wrong. Wrong. WRONG.


            It has the sacredness of the gift from the beloved, but yeah, it's not a person from the Christian point of view.



            While she's talking, I'll use my mind to think of other things. She can't stop my mind!

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            • Originally posted by onelife View Post

              Actually, Mother Nature gives us life - albeit for the short term.

              Whether we are commanded or not, She deserves our respect.

              Yeah, we don't really do the personification of nature thing, but I agree we should respect it.



              While she's talking, I'll use my mind to think of other things. She can't stop my mind!

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              • The Christian point of view lacks credibility. They cannot demonstrate that any of their claims are true. They make extraordinary claims but present zero evidence. Since there is no evidence for anything supernatural or a soul it’s my suspicion that their assertions about an afterlife are just as specious as their claims about original sin and salvation.
                Last edited by moogerfooger; 05-23-2019, 10:12 AM.

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                • Originally posted by Opposite Day View Post



                  It has the sacredness of the gift from the beloved, but yeah, it's not a person from the Christian point of view.
                  BWahahah so environmental destruction, pollution, and global warming ARE all your fault. I knew it!

                  What does the New Testament have to say about nature or our relationship to it?
                  Last edited by Zig al-din; 05-23-2019, 10:23 AM.

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                  • Originally posted by moogerfooger View Post
                    The Christian point of view lacks credibility. They cannot demonstrate that any of their claims are true. They make extraordinary claims but present zero evidence. Since there is no evidence for anything supernatural or a soul it’s my suspicion that their assertions about an afterlife are just as specious as their claims about original sin and salvation.
                    Not sure if you've noticed this, but people who actually have religious beliefs and experiences don't care that you and your ilk think there's no evidence.

                    So since it's useless to keep up your repetitious and vapid so-called argument, why do it? From the other side of the argument, your perspective is specious and amusing at best....

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                    • Originally posted by Zig al-din View Post

                      BWahahah so environmental destruction, pollution, and global warming ARE all your fault. I knew it!

                      What does the New Testament have to say about nature or our relationship to it?
                      Not sure about the NT per se, but try Ezekiel 34:2-3 and Isaiah 24:4-6 for starters.
                      Lease this space!

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                      • Originally posted by SteinbergerHack View Post

                        Not sure about the NT per se, but try Ezekiel 34:2-3 and Isaiah 24:4-6 for starters.


                        Thanks. I'm a big fan of the OT.

                        But I don't see anything in either of those quotes about our relationship to nature per se. The Ezekiel passage seems to be more an allegorical comment on taking care of the people of Israel and behaving in a moral and just manner.

                        The misdeeds or violations alluded to in the Isaiah quotation are against Yahweh's covenant with Israel. The withering of the land and so on are just a reflection of Israel's sins against that covenant, not against nature per se.

                        It's a little bit like the old story of the Fisher King in the Grail legends - the king suffers from a wound and the land becomes barren as a result. IMO, it's not what we would now interpret as an environmental statement or what in those days would have been a reference to the sacred power of the nature spirits, gods, goddesses, etc. I guess you could interpret it as environmentally conscious, but I don't read it that way.

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                        • I want to be reincarnated as Samantha Fish's guitar.
                          "Gimme a Pigfoot and a Bottle of Beer"

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                          • Originally posted by williegoat View Post
                            I want to be reincarnated as Samantha Fish's guitar.
                            Is that a bass guitar?

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                            • Originally posted by prolurkerguy View Post

                              Is that a bass guitar?
                              Lease this space!

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                              • Originally posted by Zig al-din View Post

                                BWahahah so environmental destruction, pollution, and global warming ARE all your fault. I knew it!

                                What does the New Testament have to say about nature or our relationship to it?
                                Well you wouldn't go over to your lady's house and piss in the corner... unless she nagged you or something.

                                Tbh, direct scripture on the subject isn't coming to mind, but I got my guy working on it.

                                Ok, you're probably not going to find anything about plastic straws or anything, but here are some passages from which a duty to care for the environment can be inferred.

                                Gen 2:15, Ps 24, Gen 1:26, Matt25

                                And a bonus Milton poem on the subject!

                                https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poe...light-is-spent
                                Last edited by Opposite Day; 05-23-2019, 08:34 PM.



                                While she's talking, I'll use my mind to think of other things. She can't stop my mind!

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