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The Law of Unintended Consequences - Awakening Liberal Ire

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  • #16
    Originally posted by guido61 View Post

    You said something about “agendas”. And “reality” being “represented”. So I figured it was important to you. So I thought I’d ask why. If it’s not and you were just once-again lashing out blindly at your perceived “lib” enemies without thinking it through? That is what it is I suppose.

    Pretty sure they only agenda with those commercials is to sell stuff and make money.
    Must be sad to be blind.

    I never knew I had lib enemies until I came to this forum and was shown that everyday. Thanks for opening my eyes to this reality.
    Last edited by bildo; 05-16-2019, 09:45 AM.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by bildo View Post

      Must be sad to be blind.
      As opposed to sitting around fretting about whether ads featuring inter-racial couples over-represent such couples and are pushing an 'agenda"?

      And here I just thought they were selling laundry detergent.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by guido61 View Post

        As opposed to sitting around fretting about whether ads featuring inter-racial couples over-represent such couples and are pushing an 'agenda"?

        And here I just thought they were selling laundry detergent.
        Again, you put what YOU think something is and not what is reality. I do understand that reality is hard for some.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by bildo View Post

          Again, you put what YOU think something is and not what is reality. I do understand that reality is hard for some.
          And what is the reality. That these companies are all conspiring to push an "agenda" that inter-racial marriage is more common than it really is?

          A) Like I said, I think their only agenda is to make money.

          B) Even if that WAS their agenda, so what? Why would we need to make sure "reality is represented" when it comes to things like the percentage of interracial couples in the country?

          The reason why I believe "A" is the reality is because "B" makes no sense. Either in terms of how all these companies would conspire to push that agenda or what they thought they would accomplish by doing so.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by bildo View Post

            It does not matter..But you are always so lets look at the numbers..sorry your panties are in a wad again. I do enjoy the lesbian commercials.
            Please keep the discussion civil.
            **********

            "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."
            - George Carlin

            "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."
            - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

            "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."
            - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by guido61 View Post

              A) Like I said, I think their only agenda is to make money.
              This, exactly.

              Marketing teams and ad agencies are in the business of positioning their (and their clients') products or services in such a way as to reach as many people who would be most inclined to be influenced favorably by their ads.

              They are NOT in the business of driving cutting edge social engineering. Just the opposite, in fact- the only reason they would be edgy or controversial is because they think it would play well for their primary demographic. (Nike using Colin Kaepernick as a spokesman comes to mind. they weren't being courageous social justice advocates- they thought they could sell more shoes and accessories).

              So if there are more interracial families and same sex couples in TV ads, it's only because the number crunchers think appealing to these demographics will maximize the return on their advertising dollars.

              It's not at all mysterious...

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by guido61 View Post

                And what is the reality. That these companies are all conspiring to push an "agenda" that inter-racial marriage is more common than it really is?

                A) Like I said, I think their only agenda is to make money.

                B) Even if that WAS their agenda, so what? Why would we need to make sure "reality is represented" when it comes to things like the percentage of interracial couples in the country?

                The reason why I believe "A" is the reality is because "B" makes no sense. Either in terms of how all these companies would conspire to push that agenda or what they thought they would accomplish by doing so.
                I suspect more than you do. Given what we've been through with the Tea Party, Trump, Fox-Rush, MAGA, neo-Nazi's, xenophobia, etc., and the hyper news-focus on gays and race, I can easily imagine lib bosses injecting their social leanings into their commercials. Yes, they are targeting those demographics for reasons of profit, but I'll bet there's more to the decisions. Might they be attempting to project an air of inclusion and enlightenment as a statement about what's right and wrong? They still teach corporate ethics and public image in some schools. I imagine some bosses see themselves as banking on the future, where inter-racial relationships, etc., are the norm, not the outlier. They know it's right. To continue with the status quo in commercials would be counter to their character.

                Profit is always the biggest driver but I think there's more going on here. It's been too sudden and too well timed with the Trump phenomena. I smell more than greenbacks. Sometimes the media plays a role in social change. They can take on the role of agents of change. I should list examples but I can't think of any.

                Here's a big article on the subject. If I read it I'll get back to you.
                https://medium.com/@moonstorming/how...e-148aa0ef303a

                George Washington was the man who never told a lie. Richard Nixon was the man who never told the truth. Donald Trump is the man who doesn't know the difference.
                Venezuela is what happens when you have Trump without the Madison.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by TCM View Post

                  This, exactly.

                  Marketing teams and ad agencies are in the business of positioning their (and their clients') products or services in such a way as to reach as many people who would be most inclined to be influenced favorably by their ads.

                  They are NOT in the business of driving cutting edge social engineering. Just the opposite, in fact- the only reason they would be edgy or controversial is because they think it would play well for their primary demographic. (Nike using Colin Kaepernick as a spokesman comes to mind. they weren't being courageous social justice advocates- they thought they could sell more shoes and accessories).

                  So if there are more interracial families and same sex couples in TV ads, it's only because the number crunchers think appealing to these demographics will maximize the return on their advertising dollars.

                  It's not at all mysterious...
                  Traditionally, yes. But we are in uncharted waters of late. I think you guys are not taking the current social climate into account.

                  Your synopsis of the Nike/Kap makes me wonder...
                  How do you know so sure what went down at Nike headquarters? Nike already makes a chit-ton of money. They aren't desperate for more. They work with many minorities. They have become friends with them. It only makes sense that they would feel a sense of right and wrong, beyond making more money.
                  I've sat in on board meetings (not at Nike). It's always money first, but other things are discussed too. So I doubt Nike is 100% about the money. In fact, I know people who work there, it's right down the road from me in Beaverton. I know one lady who is high up. Some day I'll ask her about this.
                  Last edited by Hoot Owl; 05-16-2019, 01:38 PM.
                  George Washington was the man who never told a lie. Richard Nixon was the man who never told the truth. Donald Trump is the man who doesn't know the difference.
                  Venezuela is what happens when you have Trump without the Madison.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe View Post

                    Please keep the discussion civil.
                    I was wondering if you'd see that.

                    Hey, Phil, just a FYI, when I click on "Notifications" it is still taking up to 23 seconds to open up the page. Most of the time it's like that. Even when it's fast it's still slow.

                    George Washington was the man who never told a lie. Richard Nixon was the man who never told the truth. Donald Trump is the man who doesn't know the difference.
                    Venezuela is what happens when you have Trump without the Madison.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Hoot Owl View Post
                      Hey, Phil, just a FYI, when I click on "Notifications" it is still taking up to 23 seconds to open up the page. Most of the time it's like that. Even when it's fast it's still slow.
                      Thanks - I appreciate you letting us know.

                      Is it any faster if you click on Messages (right next to Notifications) and then use the "Go to Message Center" option from the drop down menu?
                      **********

                      "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."
                      - George Carlin

                      "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."
                      - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

                      "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."
                      - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Tom Hicks View Post
                        The GOP has already lost the culture wars. I would even go so far to say they know it, clearly are not happy about it, and are reflexively lashing out.

                        for example the Alabama abortion law.
                        That’s why they are focusing on creating an extremist right wing Judiciary.

                        Trump and Federalist Society have appointed 93 Article III judges, 37 judges to the US Courts of Appeals and 54 judges for US District Courts.as of April 4th.

                        And they are still churning them out.

                        Their influence will be around for decades regress of their stature in the Culture Wars.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Hoot Owl View Post
                          Traditionally, yes. But we are in uncharted waters of late. I think you guys are not taking the current social climate into account.

                          Your synopsis of the Nike/Kap makes me wonder...
                          How do you know so sure what went down at Nike headquarters? Nike already makes a chit-ton of money. They aren't desperate for more. They work with many minorities. They have become friends with them. It only makes sense that they would feel a sense of right and wrong, beyond making more money.
                          I've sat in on board meetings (not at Nike). It's always money first, but other things are discussed too. So I doubt Nike is 100% about the money. In fact, I know people who work there, it's right down the road from me in Beaverton. I know one lady who is high up. Some day I'll ask her about this.
                          I think other things are discussed, but still always in reference to how it will affect the bottom line. Nike's sales went UP after the Kaepernick ad. If they pursued a social agenda with those ads it was only because they thought it would HELP them, either with direct sales or with corporate image, to do so.


                          Same with the interracial stuff. Sure, maybe they want to promote "inclusion", but primarily because they think it is in their own best interest to do so.

                          Of course other things are discussed. What the people look like is very important in MOST ads. They aren't choosing various people by accident. They aren't simply going with the best actor regardless of appearance. So yes, if they are using interracial couples it's purposeful and because they believe it will reach their target customers more effectively. Including those who respond positively to any 'social message' inherent in them doing so.

                          I know my wife has noticed the interracial ads and said "that's so cool they do that". Whether that inspires her to buy those products? I have no idea.

                          But is that promoting a social agenda? Or simply trying to connect with my wife and HER "social agenda"?

                          When there's a company who says "yes, we had a pretty good idea that particular ad would likely reduce our sales, but we thought that the social message was so important that we went forward with it anyway".... then get back to me.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by guido61 View Post

                            I think other things are discussed, but still always in reference to how it will affect the bottom line. Nike's sales went UP after the Kaepernick ad. If they pursued a social agenda with those ads it was only because they thought it would HELP them, either with direct sales or with corporate image, to do so.


                            Same with the interracial stuff. Sure, maybe they want to promote "inclusion", but primarily because they think it is in their own best interest to do so.

                            Of course other things are discussed. What the people look like is very important in MOST ads. They aren't choosing various people by accident. They aren't simply going with the best actor regardless of appearance. So yes, if they are using interracial couples it's purposeful and because they believe it will reach their target customers more effectively. Including those who respond positively to any 'social message' inherent in them doing so.

                            I know my wife has noticed the interracial ads and said "that's so cool they do that". Whether that inspires her to buy those products? I have no idea.

                            But is that promoting a social agenda? Or simply trying to connect with my wife and HER "social agenda"?

                            When there's a company who says "yes, we had a pretty good idea that particular ad would likely reduce our sales, but we thought that the social message was so important that we went forward with it anyway".... then get back to me.
                            Well, we'll never know about each and every corporate decision. I'm confident I could find companies that say they run inclusive ads partly for altruistic reasons, however. But really, you never really know what goes on in the minds of the decision makers. They could be closeted bisexuals. They could have a secret hankering for another race. They could just see dollars. The people I've worked with do not think only in terms of dollars, however, so I think there's more going on that just that. We agree to disagree, sort of - I really think we don't exactly know the why's on this one and that judging advertising actions based on the old model of just the bottom line misses recent social influences. I suspect the social war has moved into the board room to some degree.

                            George Washington was the man who never told a lie. Richard Nixon was the man who never told the truth. Donald Trump is the man who doesn't know the difference.
                            Venezuela is what happens when you have Trump without the Madison.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe View Post

                              Thanks - I appreciate you letting us know.

                              Is it any faster if you click on Messages (right next to Notifications) and then use the "Go to Message Center" option from the drop down menu?
                              Nope. Tried it and it took the same 23 seconds.

                              George Washington was the man who never told a lie. Richard Nixon was the man who never told the truth. Donald Trump is the man who doesn't know the difference.
                              Venezuela is what happens when you have Trump without the Madison.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Hoot Owl View Post
                                Nope. Tried it and it took the same 23 seconds.


                                Well it was worth a shot - thanks for trying that and reporting back.
                                **********

                                "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."
                                - George Carlin

                                "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."
                                - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

                                "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."
                                - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

                                Comment

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