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  • #61
    Originally posted by Easy Listener View Post

    He was part of the campaign that was being investigated. Barr wasn't.
    There's really no point trying to explain to you the humor of Jeff sessions being ethical by recusing himself.
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    • #62
      Originally posted by Tom Hicks View Post

      There's really no point trying to explain to you the humor of Jeff sessions being ethical by recusing himself.
      I didn't consider it an ethical decision. I didn't think he should have done it. But, that said, if it was him rather than Barr that was handling this now, the left would be whining even more. So I think he was right to recuse himself. But I don't see it as an ethical decision. I see it as a good political decision.

      Now, if it had turned out that there was any kind of case against trump, it would have made his decision to recuse himself an ethical one.
      Last edited by Easy Listener; 05-10-2019, 11:38 AM.
      EVERYTHING I type (i.e. not a link or video) is only my opinion. In a sane world, that should not have to be said. But then, we are not living in a sane world, are we?

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Easy Listener View Post

        Personally, I see each situation as standing or falling on its own merits. I was a big fan of Nixon but he was rightly nailed and needed to go. I actually played the "what if he were Hubert Humphrey" game in my head. i.e. imagine Humphrey did this. It made the decision easy.

        I do the same thing now. I agreed with my conservative friends on some attacks on Obama, and disagreed on others. What makes this one easy is the results of the Mueller investigation. When you don't accept the results, you are doing it wrong.
        Of course you think that. You couldn't possibly see yourself as being anything other than objective (even if the matter is examining someone's facial expressions during testimony), and you couldn't possibly see any critique of Trump's executive actions as worthy.
        For those who prefer to listen rather than read and who ask these questions: What underlying crimes were being investigated when Trump obstructed justice? Why wasn't he indicted? Why did Mueller discuss indicting a sitting president in Volume II but not Volume I?
        https://www.audible.com/pd/The-Muell...ook/B07PXN468K


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        • #64
          Originally posted by Easy Listener View Post

          I didn't consider it an ethical decision.

          An incredibly telling admission on your part.

          I didn't think he should have done it. But, that said, if it was him rather than Barr that was handling this now, the left would be whining even more. So I think he was right to recuse himself. But I don't see it as an ethical decision. I see it as a good political decision.

          Now, if it had turned out that there was any kind of case against trump, it would have made his decision to recuse himself an ethical one.
          __________________________________________________

          Is This Thing On?

          https://soundcloud.com/tom-hicks888

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Tom Hicks View Post


            An incredibly telling admission on your part.


            Make of it what you will.
            EVERYTHING I type (i.e. not a link or video) is only my opinion. In a sane world, that should not have to be said. But then, we are not living in a sane world, are we?

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            • #66
              Originally posted by arcadesonfire View Post

              Of course you think that. You couldn't possibly see yourself as being anything other than objective (even if the matter is examining someone's facial expressions during testimony), and you couldn't possibly see any critique of Trump's executive actions as worthy.
              I don't think I'm the pinnacle of objectivity, just a heck of a lot more objective than leftists. I've seen them ride their own Titanics to the depths. I've watched them make ludicrous claims that not only can't be supported but can easily be disproven with words or actions. The first one that I'll never forget was the Zimmerman/Martin case. It was amazing. Hands up, don't shoot was another one. Comical.

              So no, I'm not 100% objective. Nobody is. I'm just a lot more objective than those with TDS.

              EVERYTHING I type (i.e. not a link or video) is only my opinion. In a sane world, that should not have to be said. But then, we are not living in a sane world, are we?

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Easy Listener View Post

                I don't think I'm the pinnacle of objectivity, just a heck of a lot more objective than leftists. I've seen them ride their own Titanics to the depths. I've watched them make ludicrous claims that not only can't be supported but can easily be disproven with words or actions. The first one that I'll never forget was the Zimmerman/Martin case. It was amazing. Hands up, don't shoot was another one. Comical.

                So no, I'm not 100% objective. Nobody is. I'm just a lot more objective than those with TDS.
                Objectivity and partisanship are not friends.
                Keep the company of those who seek the truth, and run from those who have found it.

                -- Vaclav Havel

                The Universe is unimaginably vast. For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.

                -- Carl Sagan


                Life - the way it really is - is a battle not between Bad and Good but between Bad and Worse.

                -- Joseph Brodsky

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Red Ant View Post

                  Objectivity and partisanship are not friends.
                  I strongly agree. It's why I'm an independent. It's why I relate to the video in the OP. As he points out, this is not about trump to many of us. We put ourselves in his shoes and are repulsed by what is happening and what happened. It's not about him. It is about the utter injustice of the whole thing. Only those that are partisan seem to completely miss that aspect because they are so overcome by TDS.

                  This is not Trump supporters vs justice. It is not trump supporters vs trump detractors. It is about supporters of justice vs those with TDS.

                  It reminds me of the Kavanaugh hearing. I was NO fan of Kavanaugh and still am not. But the higher principle was watching a complete railroading of a fellow citizen of the US and wanting to see it stopped in its tracks (it was). I became a strong opponent of what was being done to another man, regardless of who that man is. And, truth be told, I think this may be what is going on with Barr regarding Trump.

                  In a civilized society we should rise above this kind of crap.
                  Last edited by Easy Listener; 05-10-2019, 12:37 PM.
                  EVERYTHING I type (i.e. not a link or video) is only my opinion. In a sane world, that should not have to be said. But then, we are not living in a sane world, are we?

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Easy Listener View Post

                    Why?
                    "It quite literally violates our since of justice at a core level."

                    Should be:

                    "It quite literally violates our sense of justice at a core level."


                    You're welcome.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe View Post

                      "It quite literally violates our since of justice at a core level."

                      Should be:

                      "It quite literally violates our sense of justice at a core level."


                      You're welcome.
                      Thank you. As I mentioned before, I saw it and left it. I don't like it when my posts have a "last edited" date and chose to leave it be.
                      EVERYTHING I type (i.e. not a link or video) is only my opinion. In a sane world, that should not have to be said. But then, we are not living in a sane world, are we?

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Easy Listener View Post

                        Thank you. As I mentioned before, I saw it and left it. I don't like it when my posts have a "last edited" date and chose to leave it be.
                        There’s a space for you explain the reason for editing

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Easy Listener View Post

                          I strongly agree. It's why I'm an independent. It's why I relate to the video in the OP. As he points out, this is not about trump to many of us. We put ourselves in his shoes and are repulsed by what is happening and what happened.
                          You seem to be contradicting yourself. If independents can be said to be anything as a group, it is that independents are not monolithic - there is no "majority Independent opinion" to be found.

                          And TDS has two distinct strains, both pro- and anti-. Neither variant is useful, imho.

                          In this case, neither you nor I, nor most other people, have enough information to form an objetive opinion on whether "injustice" happened, and to whom, and how and when. Every version of events, including yours and mine, is short on data and long on conjecture - and how can it be otherwise when nearly everyone involved (with perhaps the exception of Mueller and his team, and we are prevented from knowing their full findings on the subject) have been involved in at least some form of obfuscation, if not outright lying. And this isn't a matter of belief or opinion, since everyone from Trump to Comey, from Sessions to Strzok and on down, have all been caught in some form of prevarication.

                          Frankly, the waters have been muddied so thoroughly and by so many parties that its become pointless to discuss, as eventually it comes down to "whom do you believe"... which in my case is "no one".

                          Keep the company of those who seek the truth, and run from those who have found it.

                          -- Vaclav Havel

                          The Universe is unimaginably vast. For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.

                          -- Carl Sagan


                          Life - the way it really is - is a battle not between Bad and Good but between Bad and Worse.

                          -- Joseph Brodsky

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Easy Listener View Post

                            I strongly agree. It's why I'm an independent. It's why I relate to the video in the OP. As he points out, this is not about trump to many of us. We put ourselves in his shoes and are repulsed by what is happening and what happened. It's not about him. It is about the utter injustice of the whole thing. Only those that are partisan seem to completely miss that aspect because they are so overcome by TDS.

                            This is not Trump supporters vs justice. It is not trump supporters vs trump detractors. It is about supporters of justice vs those with TDS.

                            It reminds me of the Kavanaugh hearing. I was NO fan of Kavanaugh and still am not. But the higher principle was watching a complete railroading of a fellow citizen of the US and wanting to see it stopped in its tracks (it was). I became a strong opponent of what was being done to another man, regardless of who that man is. And, truth be told, I think this may be what is going on with Barr regarding Trump.

                            In a civilized society we should rise above this kind of crap.
                            Those who claim to be an “independent” when the reality is they don’t register with a political party because the GOP isn’t conservative enough for them are being a bit disingenuous. IMO.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Red Ant View Post
                              In this case, neither you nor I, nor most other people, have enough information to form an objetive opinion on whether "injustice" happened, and to whom, and how and when. Every version of events, including yours and mine, is short on data and long on conjecture - and how can it be otherwise when nearly everyone involved (with perhaps the exception of Mueller and his team, and we are prevented from knowing their full findings on the subject) have been involved in at least some form of obfuscation, if not outright lying. And this isn't a matter of belief or opinion, since everyone from Trump to Comey, from Sessions to Strzok and on down, have all been caught in some form of prevarication.

                              Frankly, the waters have been muddied so thoroughly and by so many parties that its become pointless to discuss, as eventually it comes down to "whom do you believe"... which in my case is "no one".
                              Though I tend to agree with you academically, I've found that the internet has changed that formula quite a bit. Thing is, one can go to the "best supporters" of each position and, often times, accurately determine which is telling the truth and which is not. Or at least which makes the strongest case. And that has left me, over the last ten years, being right about this stuff a LOT more than wrong.

                              This video sums it up best. It is not the ox being gored by the video that is the point I'm focusing on, but the discussion of the argument styles that give away which side's arguments hold more water. And the video is ten years old and has proven to be downright clairvoyant regarding the antics of leftists today.


                              EVERYTHING I type (i.e. not a link or video) is only my opinion. In a sane world, that should not have to be said. But then, we are not living in a sane world, are we?

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Easy Listener View Post
                                Though I tend to agree with you academically, I've found that the internet has changed that formula quite a bit. Thing is, one can go to the "best supporters" of each position and, often times, accurately determine which is telling the truth and which is not. Or at least which makes the strongest case. And that has left me, over the last ten years, being right about this stuff a LOT more than wrong.
                                The above is entirely subjective. My subjective opinion is that the internet has indeed "changed the formula" - by reducing the signal-to-noise ratio to the point of absurdity. And the idea of "going to best supporters" is repugnant to me in principle - I don't need anyone to "make the strongest case" on any given issue, that is my job.

                                Originally posted by Easy Listener View Post
                                This video sums it up best. It is not the ox being gored by the video that is the point I'm focusing on, but the discussion of the argument styles that give away which side's arguments hold more water. And the video is ten years old and has proven to be downright clairvoyant regarding the antics of leftists today.

                                I think I've made abundantly clear on numerous occasions that I will not watch youtube video as part of political discourse. I'm happy to read anything you or anyone else provides, but my time is too valuable to me to waste it on YouTube opinion.
                                Keep the company of those who seek the truth, and run from those who have found it.

                                -- Vaclav Havel

                                The Universe is unimaginably vast. For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.

                                -- Carl Sagan


                                Life - the way it really is - is a battle not between Bad and Good but between Bad and Worse.

                                -- Joseph Brodsky

                                Comment

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