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House Judiciary Committee votes to hold A.G. Barr in contempt.

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe View Post
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...ReP?li=BBnb7Kz


    IMHO, Chairman Nadler has way overstepped on this one.

    Why?

    You can't order someone to break the law. The Judiciary Committee's order to Barr to release the entire, un-redacted Mueller report was an illegal order, and Barr was completely correct to ignore it. He can not release 6(e) grand jury material without committing a felony.

    Try to spin it however you want, but that's the law.

    The DoJ has already made a less redacted version available to 12 senior members of Congress, but the last time I checked, only two (both Republicans) had even bothered to go and view it at a secure location. None of the Democrats have... I suspect that's because they already have the vast majority of the report and they know there's probably little else they'll be able to glean from the classified sections (and be able to get away with leaking or otherwise use for political purposes) that were redacted from the version released to the public... but they can sure play the politics on the rest of it. And IMHO, that's exactly what they're trying to do.

    I hope this goes to court - if it does, I predict that they'll lose big-time, at least insofar as the question of the redacted 6(e) material.
    From your article.

    Democrats said they did not expect Mr. Barr to break the law and unilaterally release grand jury secrets. Rather, they said they had repeatedly asked him to join the committee in petitioning a judge to unseal material for the grand jury for committee use. He refused. Democrats agreed to an amendment from Representative Matt Gaetz, Republican of Florida, that clarified the committee did not expect Mr. Barr to break the law and unilaterally release the grand jury material.

    Democrats view the president’s privilege claim as bunk, since much of the report and evidence have either been released publicly or shared with lawyers in the special counsel case.
    Barr has refused to appear in front of the committee. Democrats didn't have any other option. Now Trump is claiming executive privilege. How about you dig way down in that jar of excuses and tell us that is fine too?.
    Last edited by harrycox1; 05-08-2019, 04:22 PM.
    Government
    Of
    Putin
    Originally posted by nedezero1;
    Good. More lib fake news correspondents need to be assaulted when they get too pushy.
    http://www.harmonycentral.com/forum/...nches-reporter

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    • #17
      Originally posted by guido61 View Post
      Also, holding him in contempt is effectively meaningless
      As we learned from the Republicans re. Eric Holder...

      **********

      "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."
      - George Carlin

      "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."
      - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

      "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."
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      • #18
        Originally posted by harrycox1;

        Barr has refused to appear in front of the committee. Democrats didn't have any other option. Now Trump is claiming executive privilege. How about you dig way down in that jar of excuses and tell us that is fine too?.
        Correction: he agrees to answer questions from Congress, which he is obligated to do... what he refused to do is answer questions from their staff, which he legally may not be obligated to do... I think that question has never been adjudicated.
        **********

        "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."
        - George Carlin

        "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."
        - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

        "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."
        - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe View Post

          Correction: he agrees to answer questions from Congress, which he is obligated to do... what he refused to do is answer questions from their staff, which he legally may not be obligated to do... I think that question has never been adjudicated.
          It has been in the past but what ever. Why did you claim that Nadler asked Barr to break the law when your linked article clearly says that is not the case?
          Government
          Of
          Putin
          Originally posted by nedezero1;
          Good. More lib fake news correspondents need to be assaulted when they get too pushy.
          http://www.harmonycentral.com/forum/...nches-reporter

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe View Post

            I agree. He overreached, and didn’t do the other things he should have done first.


            Until the amendment, he actually was, as I understand it. The amendment wasn’t the Democrat’s idea... they just wanted the “unredacted report”,and the law be damned.

            Why havent the Democrat leaders in Congress bothered to go view the classified, less redacted version of the Mueller report? The fact that Barr made that available to them, and the fact that they haven’t bothered to even go read it, speaks volumes IMO.
            Because they certainly know the “less redacted” version is a BS move by Barr. IF Barr is hiding anything, why would he “unredact” it now?

            what “speaks volumes” is that all of this is just a run-out-the-clock move by Trump to get to the election.

            I think the Dems are wrong to waste so much time seeing the rest of the report. I doubt there’s much of anything in there to see that would be “damning” and they’ve already got more than enough to work with from the redacted report and elsewhere to keep Trump on his heels for however long they want.



            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe View Post

              1.First of all, they can petition the judge, with or without Barr - they don’t need his permission or agreement in order to do so. 2. Nowhere that I’m aware of in law or statute is Barr obligated to join them in any such petition. Calling his refusal to do so contemptuous is way beyond a stretch IMO.
              1. Yes they can. The petition has more weight when the Attorney General joins. That's why they asked.

              2. I don't disagree. But, it's more accurate to present the full story, including this rationale, than your OP, which asserted that the House was holding him in contempt for refusing to release 6(e). As your link states, the Dems were careful to clarify that this was not the reason, which is important, even if you also disagree with their actual stated reason.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe View Post

                As we learned from the Republicans re. Eric Holder...
                Yep. This is all just playing politics. On both sides. That you seem to think that only the Dems are bad actors here is interesting.

                But all if this DOES lead us to some very interesting legal and constitutional questions regarding separation of powers and checks and balances.

                If Trump is allowed to shut down any investigations into the executive branch by claiming “executive privilege “ over EVERYTHING, then we’ve crossed a new bar.

                Certainly the libertarian in you cant be supportive of this?

                Comment


                • #23
                  No man is above the law including the president. I have faith that the courts will shut down this theory of unitary executive power.

                  Nixon also claimed he didn't have to honor subpoenas. It took a while but the courts told him yes you do.

                  there will be a similar time lag because of the inertia of the process and the system, but the courts will deal with Donald similarly.
                  __________________________________________________

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe View Post
                    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...ReP?li=BBnb7Kz


                    IMHO, Chairman Nadler has way overstepped on this one.

                    Why?

                    You can't order someone to break the law. The Judiciary Committee's order to Barr to release the entire, un-redacted Mueller report was an illegal order, and Barr was completely correct to ignore it. He can not release 6(e) grand jury material without committing a felony.

                    Try to spin it however you want, but that's the law.

                    The DoJ has already made a less redacted version available to 12 senior members of Congress, but the last time I checked, only two (both Republicans) had even bothered to go and view it at a secure location. None of the Democrats have... I suspect that's because they already have the vast majority of the report and they know there's probably little else they'll be able to glean from the classified sections (and be able to get away with leaking or otherwise use for political purposes) that were redacted from the version released to the public... but they can sure play the politics on the rest of it. And IMHO, that's exactly what they're trying to do.

                    I hope this goes to court - if it does, I predict that they'll lose big-time, at least insofar as the question of the redacted 6(e) material.
                    It`s another losing strategy that`s going to hand Trump another 4 years and possibly cost the Dems the house as well.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by redEL34 View Post

                      It`s another losing strategy that`s going to hand Trump another 4 years and possibly cost the Dems the house as well.
                      Likely so, though I strongly doubt the GOP's ability to retake the House, regardless of the Dem's inept attempts at curbing executive overreach.
                      Last edited by Red Ant; 05-08-2019, 07:24 PM.
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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by redEL34 View Post

                        It`s another losing strategy that`s going to hand Trump another 4 years and possibly cost the Dems the house as well.
                        So do you support a unitary executive for ALL presidents? For just Republicans? Or only when it’s Donald Trump?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Red Ant View Post

                          Likely so, though I strongly doubt the GOP's ability to retake the House, regsrdless of the Dem's inept attempts at curbing executive overreach.
                          This seems to be Trump’s plan. I think at this point he’d like to be impeached so he can be even a bigger martyr for his base than he already his.

                          Unfortunately for him, they can each vote for him only once.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by guido61 View Post

                            This seems to be Trump’s plan. I think at this point he’d like to be impeached so he can be even a bigger martyr for his base than he already his.

                            Unfortunately for him, they can each vote for him only once.
                            I wouldn’t be surprised if Russia were working on a fix for that.
                            Remember how they’ve been probing our power grids and the DHS released an alert about it? https://www.us-cert.gov/ncas/alerts/TA18-074A

                            (To anyone confused, this post is meant to be humorous.)


                            For those who prefer to listen rather than read and who ask these questions: What underlying crimes were being investigated when Trump obstructed justice? Why wasn't he indicted? Why did Mueller discuss indicting a sitting president in Volume II but not Volume I?
                            https://www.audible.com/pd/The-Muell...ook/B07PXN468K


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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Red Ant View Post

                              Likely so, though I strongly doubt the GOP's ability to retake the House, regardless of the Dem's inept attempts at curbing executive overreach.
                              It may be a losing strategy for some people, but think back to the years leading up to and including 2016 hammering away at Benghazi and emails seemed to affect opinions of Clinton, probably leading some to sit it out or to vote for the supposed populist.
                              For those who prefer to listen rather than read and who ask these questions: What underlying crimes were being investigated when Trump obstructed justice? Why wasn't he indicted? Why did Mueller discuss indicting a sitting president in Volume II but not Volume I?
                              https://www.audible.com/pd/The-Muell...ook/B07PXN468K


                              My (old dead) band!:
                              www.steelphantoms.com/
                              PM me if you want to give me a Deluxe US Strat with locking tuners and 22 frets for <$800. Fancy Strymon pedals welcome too!

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by arcadesonfire View Post

                                It may be a losing strategy for some people, but think back to the years leading up to and including 2016 hammering away at Benghazi and emails seemed to affect opinions of Clinton, probably leading some to sit it out or to vote for the supposed populist.
                                Honestly? I think opinions for or against Trump are so hard-set that none of this is going to matter in the election one way or the other. At least not directly.

                                I think it MIGHT have an effect if the Dems spend more time on this than passing other bills---even if it only looks that way because this stuff is all the news channels cover.

                                But there's no reason it has to drag on for 18 months. Even though Trump seems determined to make it do so. Wrap this up by February when the primaries start and by the summer of 2020 nobody will even remember it much anymore.
                                Last edited by Vito Corleone; 05-08-2019, 08:56 PM.

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