Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.

Notre Dame is burning!

Collapse
X
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe View Post

    Yeah, it's understandable that some would snipe at Trump's advice, but they did actually consider it - and decided against it due to concerns it would destroy the walls due to the weight of the water, and due to concerns about the amount of bystanders nearby...

    IMO, it wasn't a totally stupid idea - it just wasn't practical.
    If the cathedral was out in the country, maybe. But it is smack dab in the middle of the city. To fly a water tanker plane low enough to be effective on an area that is quite small (compared to a forest fire), would be impossible, and likely dangerous.

    It was kind of a stupid idea. Something someone would blurt out without thinking it through.

    Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe View Post
    But OTOH, there's going to have to be an investigation looking into the cause of the fire, and examination of the disaster plan (if any) to deal with something like this occurring. There should have been SOME kind of plan in place; especially in light of the renovation work that it was undergoing.

    They'll probably try to rebuild / restore what they can, but sooo much of what was housed inside of that cathedral is gone forever - again, hundreds of years of history... gone.
    I would initially suspect that it was the renovation work that caused the fire - electrical, welding, etc.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by RogueGnome View Post
      Very sad.
      Hopefully they can salvage this world treasure.
      If you're traveling to Paris in the near future and you had your heart set on touring Notre Dame, here's a wonderful consolation suggestion for you that won't disappoint; just a short walking distance from ND.
      Sainte Capelle
      You may even catch a concert here.
      My daughter is studying in England right now and was there last week. Fortunately, she was able to take a few pics of the place. One of her shots looks like yours.

      I do hope they figure out a way to rebuild.
      Sprinkles are for winners...

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by gp2112 View Post

        Yeah!...No.

        His Grace, The Being That Knows All: Trump, already suggested that. See what happens when you put a minimum of 24K pounds of water on a masonry building that lost it's sole means of support for the walls.
        Ahem...it has stone flying buttresses that support the walls. The shell itself is likely going to survive. Not much else, though, if the film being shown is any indication.
        Lease this space!

        Comment


        • #19
          I assume they'll rebuild with fire protection in mind.

          Very sad to see so much of it go up in smoke.

          I worry about the health hazards associated with this, too. Lots of hazardous materials in all of those old materials.

          This may not be 9/11 levels of environmental hazard, but it could be pretty bad, I suspect.


          Flag a Post
          The Report has been sent.
          [OK]

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by SteinbergerHack View Post

            Ahem...it has stone flying buttresses that support the walls. The shell itself is likely going to survive. Not much else, though, if the film being shown is any indication.
            Oh, I know all about the buttresses, but they are there to keep the walls from bowing out or collapsing out from the pressure of the roof. The roof is still integral to the overall stability of the structure.

            24 thousand pounds of water (from a 3K air tanker) being tossed into the fire from height and approach speed of the plane would destroy those walls quite easily. One of the reasons they do not do drops on burning buildings here, unless it is to stop the forward progress of a fire to prevent it from involving other structures.

            When we drop on buildings we have already written them off.

            Like I said: Tactical drops utilizing helo's and Bambi buckets would have worked as the helo's can either hover over and drop or "toss" the bucket load (300 to 500 gallons) a short distance with much less threat of damage.
            Sprinkles are for winners...

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by gp2112 View Post

              Oh, I know all about the buttresses, but they are there to keep the walls from bowing out or collapsing out from the pressure of the roof. The roof is still integral to the overall stability of the structure.

              24 thousand pounds of water (from a 3K air tanker) being tossed into the fire from height and approach speed of the plane would destroy those walls quite easily. One of the reasons they do not do drops on burning buildings here, unless it is to stop the forward progress of a fire to prevent it from involving other structures.

              When we drop on buildings we have already written them off.

              Like I said: Tactical drops utilizing helo's and Bambi buckets would have worked as the helo's can either hover over and drop or "toss" the bucket load (300 to 500 gallons) a short distance with much less threat of damage.
              Do they have to drop all 24k lbs at once?

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe View Post

                Yeah, it's understandable that some would snipe at Trump's advice, but they did actually consider it - and decided against it due to concerns it would destroy the walls due to the weight of the water, and due to concerns about the amount of bystanders nearby...

                IMO, it wasn't a totally stupid idea - it just wasn't practical.
                Sorry, Phil. I think it was a dumb idea and the outcome should be obvious.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by RGx2 View Post

                  Sorry, Phil. I think it was a dumb idea and the outcome should be obvious.
                  Yeah, you'd think... but obviously Trump didn't. Then again, they had no way of getting water to where it needed to go due to the height of the cathedral, so IMO someone should have thought about that before the fire too...

                  **********

                  "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."
                  - George Carlin

                  "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."
                  - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

                  "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."
                  - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by goodhonk View Post

                    Do they have to drop all 24k lbs at once?
                    24K, or 3K gallons, is the smallest tanker utilized on a regular basis. There are smaller planes: Super Scoopers, that drop 1.6K gallons but that still equates to 14K pounds of water hitting at once since they cannot do sequential drops. There are smaller Air Tractors, that can be converted to drop, but they are not used for large fire fronts as they do not have enough punch to do much to a fire.

                    The 3K tankers only have one tank and the drop is all at once. The larger tankers can do sequential drops but those are usually in increments of 1.5K to 3K each.

                    Of course my knowledge of tankers is limited to those utilized in the US. While I know that France has some I imagine they are based in the southern part of france. I do not know what else they use.
                    Sprinkles are for winners...

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe View Post

                      Yeah, you'd think... but obviously Trump didn't. Then again, they had no way of getting water to where it needed to go due to the height of the cathedral, so IMO someone should have thought about that before the fire too...
                      That is what kills me about this. They should have the capabilities to get max wet stuff on the red stuff. Hell, fly a few sticks and tower ladders and push the pumps to 1500 GPM. They have a nearly unlimited water source mere feet away. The base of the fire could have been hit through the windows. I am quite sure that a few windows were already damaged by the time the fire brigade arrived.

                      Of course, I do not know what they did, and not every fire can be put out with the tools at hand.
                      Sprinkles are for winners...

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        The best way to fight it would be if we had massive fire extinguishers attached to helicopters and go at it with them.

                        Never been to Paris. So sad I'll never got to see it the way it was except in pictures.

                        Such a tragic loss of history.
                        Last edited by gismo recording; 04-15-2019, 02:38 PM.
                        Best deals on recording
                        Gismo Studios: link
                        My original music on ReverbNation: link
                        Gismo Studios on ReverbNation: link
                        Islam is a much greater threat to the free world than Communism ever was. - Easy Listener

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Tragic. I’m heartbroken.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Lot of amateur armchair quarterbacking.
                            Guns Over People

                            I pledge my allegiance to David Hogg and Emma Gonzalez!!!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by RogueGnome View Post
                              Very sad.
                              Hopefully they can salvage this world treasure.
                              If you're traveling to Paris in the near future and you had your heart set on touring Notre Dame, here's a wonderful consolation suggestion for you that won't disappoint; just a short walking distance from ND.
                              Sainte Capelle
                              You may even catch a concert here.
                              Sainte Chapel is amazing.

                              When you walk in, the first floor isn't very ornate. But when you climb the stairs to the second floor, with all the stained glass, it takes your breath away.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by goodhonk View Post

                                Do they have to drop all 24k lbs at once?
                                every once in a while I want to change my avatar for a couple of posts ?? )
                                __________-------------------------------------__________________________---------------
                                "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." ---Albert Einstein

                                What is more liberal than this ?? )
                                We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union ...

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X