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O/T: Ford (and GM as well) will be abandoning the passenger car business.

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  • O/T: Ford (and GM as well) will be abandoning the passenger car business.

    This isn’t really news as this comes from an article first published nearly a year ago but here is the gist of it:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnb...ar-behind.html

    This is of course because truck and SUV sales in the US have become so dominant. But is this a short-sighted decision?? From where I stand that would seem to be so.

    This decision is eerily reminiscent of the state of the domestic auto industry in the mid-70’s when fuel prices at the pump rapidly went up and the domestic automakers were all but crushed by much more fuel-efficient imports. To me, this looks as though they are setting themselves up for yet another domestic industry-wide defeat in the likely event that something similar happens again.

    It doesn’t even necessarily have to be triggered by a fuel crisis. Once the SUV and truck market becomes too saturated and consumer preferences change (as they always eventually do), overseas manufacturers who will have remained tooled up to manufacture viable alternative vehicles will undoubtedly exploit such an opportunity.

    My opinion, of course. What is your opinion?
    Last edited by Prime8; 03-16-2019, 09:35 AM.
    Originally posted by GTRMAN;n31424311

    The hijacking of the Republican party by the religious right really did send the party into a tailspin of fundamentalism and black/white politics. It's really scary how it transformed the party.

  • #2
    cars are so 20th century

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    • #3
      I don't get the giant SUV/truck trend. I mean, I guess it's the 2nd time this has happened. The early 2000s had this (I remember all the Navigators and Expeditions), then the financial crash hit with a wave of efficient compacts, and now we're back to full-on Caligula levels of vehicle size again already?

      I know some people actually tow stuff and haul gear in a truck, some people need the ground clearance for off road use, but enough to shift the market to dump cars almost entirely? Yeah, I think that's mostly just for looks, status, and the idiotic big car "safety" arms race.

      Meanwhile, whatever happened to the small pickup? Maybe just get a hatchback or a wagon? I guess the "crossover" hotness fills the hatch and wagon gap while being slightly less dorky.

      All of that said, I wouldn't buy any of those Fords and Chevys anyway. Ford almost appealed to me with the Focus RS, but the interior is subpar, and reliability is an issue, IMO. But, man, on paper that car hits all the checkboxes for me.

      That said, I'm the car buying oddity these days who starts his search by immediately axing anything without a manual transmission. I guess I'm not the target market.

      Enjoy your mushy CVT crossovers, guys.

      Man... how "old man" was that rant?


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      • #4
        Originally posted by willhaven View Post
        That said, I'm the car buying oddity these days who starts his search by immediately axing anything without a manual transmission. I guess I'm not the target market.
        On this, you and I are 100% in agreement.
        Lease this space!

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        • #5
          I have always preferred manuals over automatics. Not only does it instill a senses of more control between the driver and the vehicle, you get to make the decision when it’s time to shift. Furthermore, transmission issues with today’s highly complex automatics seem to be a constant, especially on cars with over 100K miles.

          However, my wife and I now both own Teslas, neither of which have any type of transmission making the manual vs. automatic issue a moot point.
          Originally posted by GTRMAN;n31424311

          The hijacking of the Republican party by the religious right really did send the party into a tailspin of fundamentalism and black/white politics. It's really scary how it transformed the party.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Prime8 View Post
            I have always preferred manuals over automatics. Not only does it instill a senses of more control between the driver and the vehicle, you get to make the decision when it’s time to shift. Furthermore, transmission issues with today’s highly complex automatics seem to be a constant, especially on cars with over 100K miles.
            Yes - this precisely.

            I have never had to replace a clutch in any manual street car I've ever driven, and many have gone well over 100K miles (including my current daily driver - 485 hp with a 6-speed). Meanwhile, nearly every automatic we have owned has had to have some sort of transmission service at ~80K.
            Last edited by SteinbergerHack; 03-16-2019, 01:14 PM.
            Lease this space!

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            • #7
              Originally posted by SteinbergerHack View Post
              On this, you and I are 100% in agreement.
              I bought my current daily with an auto. The auto died and I swapped in a manual.

              I've been kicking around the idea of getting a new daily driver, and my list of cars I need to test drive is absolutely absurd unless you realize that the through line is a manual transmission option. I guess the next through line would be, "not gigantic."
              • Toyota Corolla hatchback
              • Mazda Miata RF (Very pretty, and more power now.)
              • Subaru/Toyota BRZ/86 (Since I'm considering a Miata, might as well look at the competitor.)
              • Genesis G70 2.0T (God I wish they offered the V6 with a manual.)
              • Honda Civic Type R (I hope they update the front/rear fascia for 2020, because on paper this is pretty much my perfect car. Semi-fugly.)
              • Honda Accord Sport 2.0T (I actually really like the look. Basically a detuned Civic R that isn't fugly.)
              • VW Golf R (Probably wouldn't bite due to reliability.)
              • Subaru WRX (Again, reliability, but maybe not as bad as the Golf?)
              • BMW M2 Competition (Teach Toyota a lesson by not offering the new Supra with a manual? Idiots. But the only way to disable auto rev matching is to COMPLETELY disable stability and assists. What?! WHY?! I WANT TO DRIVE IT!)

              I had considered a Tacoma for a long while... but Toyota's configuration options and limitations are absolutely baffling. The color truck I would have bought was a one year option and now it's gone. The current color choices are either hideous or boring. I'm not spending $45k on hideous or boring. Now the lower level trims have the color that got kicked down the line, but the grille on those trims is ugly and I'd have to replace it myself. F that whole mess. I'll just keep my old one for truck duty and get a car for my daily driver.

              In my head at least the Miata, Civic R, and M2 are probably the leading contenders. Civic if I can get over the fugly and fall in love (or of 2020 updates fix it), M2 if I feel spendy, and Miata if I just throw practicality in the garbage, want to save some cash, and keep myself out of jail in the process.


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              • #8
                If I didn't have to haul gear to gigs and rehearsals etcetera I would probably prefer a smaller car.

                I remember when the Hummer came into commercial production and I would see them on the streets and I would wonder what does somebody really want that for?
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                • #9
                  I can’t help but wonder if this decision means that future Lincolns will only be Navigators and that Cadillacs will only be Escalades?

                  Or will those luxury divisions be dropped altogether???
                  Originally posted by GTRMAN;n31424311

                  The hijacking of the Republican party by the religious right really did send the party into a tailspin of fundamentalism and black/white politics. It's really scary how it transformed the party.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Prime8 View Post
                    I have always preferred manuals over automatics. Not only does it instill a senses of more control between the driver and the vehicle, you get to make the decision when it’s time to shift. Furthermore, transmission issues with today’s highly complex automatics seem to be a constant, especially on cars with over 100K miles.

                    However, my wife and I now both own Teslas, neither of which have any type of transmission making the manual vs. automatic issue a moot point.
                    I've thought about going electric at some point. Not yet, though. Hell, I even considered a used Leaf for a people mover commuter daily driver. Those things are dirt cheap right now.

                    The Teslas are pretty tempting. A bunch of friends have them. Not sure I can get over touch screen everything, though.

                    Even Honda went back and put volume knobs into their infotainment screens that they had recently removed.

                    Which Teslas do you guys have now? What's your experience so far?


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Tom Hicks View Post
                      If I didn't have to haul gear to gigs and rehearsals etcetera I would probably prefer a smaller car.

                      I remember when the Hummer came into commercial production and I would see them on the streets and I would wonder what does somebody really want that for?
                      "Look at me! I'm so tough! HURR DURR!"


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by SteinbergerHack View Post

                        Yes - this precisely.

                        I have never had to replace a clutch in any manual street car I've ever driven, and may have gone well over 100K miles (including my current daily driver - 485 hp with a 6-speed). Meanwhile, nearly every automatic we have owned has had to have some sort of transmission service at ~80K.
                        I used to own a 1985 Volvo 740 Turbo with a 5-speed manual which I bought new with their “Turbo Plus” package. While nowhere near the horsepower of today’s high performance cars, it was rather quick for its day.

                        I did go through a couple of clutches before I realized that the stock clutch just simply was not up to the task. I replaced it with a much heavier-duty clutch the third time around which seemed to remedy that particular problem.
                        Originally posted by GTRMAN;n31424311

                        The hijacking of the Republican party by the religious right really did send the party into a tailspin of fundamentalism and black/white politics. It's really scary how it transformed the party.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by SteinbergerHack View Post

                          Yes - this precisely.

                          I have never had to replace a clutch in any manual street car I've ever driven, and may have gone well over 100K miles (including my current daily driver - 485 hp with a 6-speed). Meanwhile, nearly every automatic we have owned has had to have some sort of transmission service at ~80K.
                          Get a Lexus.

                          I have a choice in what I drive - pickup or car. And my wife has a SUV.

                          I choose the car every single time unless I need the others for a particular reason. Cars drive better and vehicles are for driving. There is no way around that.

                          George Washington was the man who never told a lie. Richard Nixon was the man who never told the truth. Donald Trump is the man who doesn't know the difference.
                          Venezuela is what happens when you have Trump without the Madison.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by SteinbergerHack View Post

                            Yes - this precisely.

                            I have never had to replace a clutch in any manual street car I've ever driven, and may have gone well over 100K miles (including my current daily driver - 485 hp with a 6-speed). Meanwhile, nearly every automatic we have owned has had to have some sort of transmission service at ~80K.
                            Really, my daily drivers have been mostly automatics and I've only ever had one go bad or need any work. I put a lot of miles on my vehicles and don't baby them. Never had trouble from a manual either.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Hoot Owl View Post
                              Get a Lexus.
                              No more manual transmission option at Lexus. SBH and I are out.

                              I think the IS250 was the last holdout in like 2012.

                              R.I.P.

                              Too bad, too. Their new designs have really grown on me. I hated the hourglass grill at first. Now I dig it.
                              Last edited by willhaven; 03-16-2019, 12:18 PM.


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