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Is there no such thing as objective reality?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Opposite Day View Post

    That is a bit of a brain buster. I like my now.
    's alright. You can have your now. It's just that it can never be the same now as that of anyone not occupying the same point in spacetime.
    Strangers on this road we are on,
    and we are not two, we are one.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Gromit View Post

      's alright. You can have your now. It's just that it can never be the same now as that of anyone not occupying the same point in spacetime.
      The problem is that it makes it difficult to regard my now as different from my then or my later without getting solipsistic, although that might be fun.



      While she's talking, I'll use my mind to think of other things. She can't stop my mind!

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      • #33
        Thanks for the thread Phil...



        "Plunk your Magic Twanger, Froggy". Andy Devine

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Opposite Day View Post

          The problem is that it makes it difficult to regard my now as different from my then or my later without getting solipsistic, although that might be fun.
          The problem with the now is that now is not the same now as the now we were discussing just now.

          We are temporal creatures, for us everything unfolds over time. For us as musicians, doubly so, for besides being as bound to "clock time" as any other human, we are also engaged in the creation and maintainance of virtual time, which we then attempt to impose on others, willing or otherwise
          Keep the company of those who seek the truth, and run from those who have found it.

          -- Vaclav Havel

          The Universe is unimaginably vast. For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.

          -- Carl Sagan


          Life - the way it really is - is a battle not between Bad and Good but between Bad and Worse.

          -- Joseph Brodsky

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Red Ant View Post

            The problem with the now is that now is not the same now as the now we were discussing just now.

            We are temporal creatures, for us everything unfolds over time. For us as musicians, doubly so, for besides being as bound to "clock time" as any other human, we are also engaged in the creation and maintainance of virtual time, which we then attempt to impose on others, willing or otherwise
            Hehe, next time some heavy hitter accuses me of being out of the pocket, I'm blaming it on "relativistic effects."



            While she's talking, I'll use my mind to think of other things. She can't stop my mind!

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Red Ant View Post

              The problem with the now is that now is not the same now as the now we were discussing just now.

              We are temporal creatures, for us everything unfolds over time. For us as musicians, doubly so, for besides being as bound to "clock time" as any other human, we are also engaged in the creation and maintainance of virtual time, which we then attempt to impose on others, willing or otherwise
              I didn't understand that. Can you say it in 7/8?
              (140BPM would be a nice touch too)
              gp

              "You speak with total clarity.
              "And complete irrelevance."
              --Howard Cosell. Said to Minnesota Fats during a matchup with Willie Mosconi.

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              • #37
                I think free will is an illusion. We have no choice but to have free will. I’m not sure we can ever agree on reality. And at the quantum level locality is apparently irrelevant

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                • #38
                  Silence is the objective reality. Nothing can be added to or taken away from silence. All objects all activities appear in silence. That's why a 24 bit soundstage is better than 16
                  I'm not a rookie

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by -Ed Phobes- View Post
                    If "Wigler" merely assumes there is superposition, and "Wigler's friend" has actually made a measurement to determine polarity...



                    What's the conflict?

                    "Wigler" just doesn't know yet...but his ignorance of the facts doesn't make both possibilities true.

                    Is this the same as Shroedinger's Cat? Again, the cat is dead or alive, but not both. My not knowing doesn't make both true.
                    At the quantum level, both ARE true... it’s the act of observation that makes it either / or.
                    **********

                    "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."
                    - George Carlin

                    "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."
                    - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

                    "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."
                    - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by ohmygod View Post
                      Silence is the objective reality. Nothing can be added to or taken away from silence. All objects all activities appear in silence. That's why a 24 bit soundstage is better than 16
                      First of all, I disagree that you can’t add to silence... we add vibrations (sound) to silent places all the time... and nothing is truly “silent” - there is noise at the molecular level.

                      Secondly, the universe itself may be made of vibrating strings or branes; thus at the fundamental level, it is very possible that everything is vibrating and we just don’t have sufficiently sensitive enough equipment yet to measure those vibrations - and again vibration is what generates sound, even when it occurs in the subsonic or ultrasonic (from the human perspective) frequency range.
                      **********

                      "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."
                      - George Carlin

                      "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."
                      - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

                      "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."
                      - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe View Post
                        Looks like John Lennon might not have been too far from the truth when he sang "nothing is real..." - at least according to quantum physicists...

                        Proietti and co’s result suggests that objective reality does not exist. In other words, the experiment suggests that one or more of the assumptions—the idea that there is a reality we can agree on, the idea that we have freedom of choice, or the idea of locality—must be wrong.


                        This could have major implications for science, and the scientific method.

                        Nevertheless, the work has important implications for the work of scientists. “The scientific method relies on facts, established through repeated measurements and agreed upon universally, independently of who observed them,” say Proietti and co. And yet in the same paper, they undermine this idea, perhaps fatally.


                        https://www.technologyreview.com/s/6...ctive-reality/

                        I haven't seen anything as "real" since I was in college. We are surrounded by empty space, with only a tiny fraction of it containing any "matter". Everything you taste, touch and see (props to Genesis) is merely your brains interpretaton of it's input. Nothing more. For all intents and purposes, we really do live in a hologram. But eternity with Christ is the real world. This is mostly illusion. And as a 75 year old, I very much look forward to the real world.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by willhaven View Post
                          Not a huge surprise. Hard determinist here.

                          The concept of not having free will really pisses some people off.
                          I guess my path was determined for me to have a free will and being accountable, so much for blaming my mistakes on the stars.

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                          • #43
                            We all have choices, but within certain parameters. It's like Disneyland's autopia. You get to drive your own car, but the rails keep you from going off the road. There was a fictional character that violated this and demonstrated his insanity. It was the bad guy in "The Vanishing". He proved, as a child, that he could defy his programming and jump off a secons story onto concrete, proving he had free will.

                            It's a useful lesson and observation. We all have free will, but it is actually limited. Try to stop breathing for more than 30 minutes. I dare you.
                            Last edited by Easy Listener; 03-14-2019, 09:38 AM.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Red Ant View Post

                              The problem with the now is that now is not the same now as the now we were discussing just now.

                              We are temporal creatures, for us everything unfolds over time. For us as musicians, doubly so, for besides being as bound to "clock time" as any other human, we are also engaged in the creation and maintainance of virtual time, which we then attempt to impose on others, willing or otherwise
                              How can you be so sure?

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by LARRY L View Post

                                How can you be so sure?
                                I will say that I definitely see this human meat that I occupy as a temporary thing. I believe the bible calls it a seed to be planted. And what grows from it is something else.Something quite a bit better.

                                If this life was all there is, what hopelessness. It is so incredibly brief.
                                Last edited by Easy Listener; 03-14-2019, 09:43 AM.

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