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Why don't the caravans stay home and fix their own countries?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by SteinbergerHack View Post

    Well, sure, there are the little matters of corruption and mismanagement....but the inability of the people to take matters into their own hands is one very real aspect of the problems that they face.
    You missed crushing poverty. Intimidation, threats and violence from both sides of the law. How do you propose they do that? If they get a few dollars, which makes more sense, feed your family or buy a gun. The likelihood of a beaten down people is that they have no way out to stand up, almost completely defenseless and take over is patently ridiculous. Remember the guy in China who stood up to the tank. He's daid

    Add in rigged elections, rampant disease, living in squalor and nearly zero opportunities for betterment is near nil created a unworkable situation.
    Last edited by oldsoapbars; 01-15-2019, 11:19 AM.

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    • #47
      why do americans complain about the high cost of medical care when they could take care of themselves at home? it is what their ancestors did
      {O,O}
      (__(\
      " "

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      • #48
        Oh noooooes... the "hordes are coming" to get us again?

        I must hurry and take my laundry off the clothesline before they get taken!
        Last edited by panhandler; 01-15-2019, 11:19 AM.
        If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.
        Joseph Goebbels

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        • Danocoustic
          Danocoustic commented
          Editing a comment
          *dibs on that cool t-shirt*

      • #49
        Originally posted by oldsoapbars View Post

        You missed crushing poverty. Intimidation, threats and violence from both sides of the law. How do you propose they do that? If they get a few dollars, which makes more sense, feed your family or buy a gun. The likelihood of a beaten down people is that they have no way out to stand up, almost completely defenseless and take over is patently ridiculous. Remember the guy in China who stood up to the tank. He's daid

        Add in rigged elections, rampant disease, living in squalor and nearly zero opportunities for betterment is near nil created a unworkable situation.
        I've spent time in Central America. That's not the way it is, regardless of what the MSM may tell you.

        But what do I know?
        I not only resent the allegation, I resent the alligator!

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        • #50
          Originally posted by nedezero1 View Post

          But what would prevent them from massing in front of the government and changing it? If they can organize thousands to take a dangerous journey to our border, why can't they just overtake the government en masse?
          Come on Ned really. Would you face automatic weapons with sticks and stones or would you take a chance on a long walk to the promised land?

          I'm not in favor of just opening the gates and letting everyone in but I can certainly understand why they do it.

          It's a complicated situation with no easy solution. I don't have one anyway.

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          • #51
            Originally posted by nedezero1 View Post
            Why don't the caravans stay home and fix their own countries?

            Another caravan heading up...joy!

            https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/14/polit...ump/index.html

            So when we're unhappy with our government, we vote (or concoct silly Russian conspiracy theories), to change it.

            You'd think thousands of people could just bum-rush their government, take it over and change it instead of fleeing.

            Why do they go through another sovereign nation (Mexico, where they could apply for asylum BTW), and try to sneak into our county, instead of fixing the sheet-hole where they came from?

            Ironically, they sneak in, make babies who can legally vote in our county in 18 years. Then some of them vote for the same things that turned their home countries in sheet-holes to begin with (Like free stuff, weakening criminal laws, etc)

            Mexico & Central America have vast natural resources, and access to shipping for the major oceans...there's no reason they shouldn't be vibrant-enriching economies. The only variables are the, culture, and politics, all of which can be changed to solve the problems there. IMO of course....
            The problem is, the people in those caravans are not able to "fix their own countries" any more than you're able to "fix" America. They, too, have to deal with the wealthy ruling elite who own politicians and run things for their own gain. What's worse, they don't even have a legal system or the rule of law to keep the wealthy-politician alliance in check. They have no control over the police or the army, either, so speaking out is more or less an invitation to "suicide by cop." Or death by secret police, corporate or governmental thugs or whatever else. The rest of your rant plays off the stereotypes used to vilify "those people," of whatever ethnic, national or religious origins.

            Think all that over, then ask yourself how you'd go about undoing the mess that is the typical Central American government. Or the mess that our own government has become, for that matter. I await your sagacious proposals...
            __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________
            How Come Other People Can Get Away With Jokes Like That?

            Face it Tea Bagging Neo-Cons...if Reagan ran today, you'd be calling him a RINO socialist! -- scott666

            Barack Obama must be kenyan - everytime he speaks they trot a translator out the next day to explain what he said.-- ToBeAnnounced

            And even then some people still don't understand.-- RogueGnome

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            • #52
              Just about every dirt-floored hovel I visited in Honduras, Nicaragua and Guatemala had at least an AK47, if not greater firepower.

              Please don't tell me these people don't have the wherewithal to stand up to their corrupt governments.

              We have made it way too easy for them to just come usurp the benefits of living in El Norte.
              I not only resent the allegation, I resent the alligator!

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              • #53
                Originally posted by Danocoustic View Post

                I've spent time in Central America. That's not the way it is, regardless of what the MSM may tell you.

                But what do I know?
                I have regular contact with people from El. Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua. The people in those caravans aren't the "middle-class" there. These people are at the very bottom of the socio-economic ladder. While you have been there (not sure when) the information I'm getting from immigrants from there tell me that it isn't peachy there. If you have money, you have position/power. These folks are broke.

                Keep in mind. Not all central Americans are trying to get in the US. Some have it made there.

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                • #54
                  Originally posted by oldsoapbars View Post

                  I have regular contact with people from El. Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua. The people in those caravans aren't the "middle-class" there. These people are at the very bottom of the socio-economic ladder. While you have been there (not sure when) the information I'm getting from immigrants from there tell me that it isn't peachy there. If you have money, you have position/power. These folks are broke.

                  Keep in mind. Not all central Americans are trying to get in the US. Some have it made there.
                  see post #52
                  I not only resent the allegation, I resent the alligator!

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                  • #55
                    Originally posted by Danocoustic View Post

                    see post #52
                    What time frame are you talking. I just had this discussion with several central Americans recently (during the last invading horde). From what they told me is that almost none of the poor are armed. Not because of any political policy, rather it's because of poverty.

                    While the drug trade made many rich it made far more poor.

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                    • #56
                      Originally posted by oldsoapbars View Post

                      What time frame are you talking. I just had this discussion with several central Americans recently (during the last invading horde). From what they told me is that almost none of the poor are armed. Not because of any political policy, rather it's because of poverty.

                      While the drug trade made many rich it made far more poor.
                      Yeah, good point.

                      Mid 80s.

                      Could be different now.
                      I not only resent the allegation, I resent the alligator!

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                      • #57
                        http://www.nuevamayoria.com/english/...ty/icso310.htm

                        Yes it's dated, but not a lot has changed since then

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                        • #58
                          I wonder why my Irish ancestors didn't just stay and force the ground to grow more potatoes. Why didn't my Spanish Grandma just stay in Spain and stop the revolution? Heck, why didn't my Midwestern forebearers stay there and force the ground to grow more crops?

                          Sorry I'm not offering any answers here... Peoples have always migrated. We're a relatively young nation, and we're a nation founded by immigrants. We've used welcoming symbols in our official and popular culture all along--perhaps offering open arms has been a means to to reconcile our "rugged individualist" persona with the fact that we came here and took another race's land; I mean, we used to illustrate immigrants as rugged individualists fighting to get a better life. History has us here.

                          Why don't people fix their oppressive regimes? Throughout history, fighting and fixing hasn't always been possible. Since survival is our grandest raison d'etre, humans (like other species) have historically migrated to find new territory with better resources and conditions. From prokaryotes to humans, it's how life works.
                          Last edited by arcadesonfire; 01-15-2019, 12:25 PM.
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                          • #59
                            Originally posted by RogueGnome
                            I saw lotsa pics of the caravans. Didn't see anyone carrying AK style guns.
                            Some of them had shoes.
                            I guess those fortunate enough could throw their shoes.
                            Maybe that's why some were barefoot!
                            I bet they used their shoes as weapons!
                            Da bastages!:
                            ...and you dare charge "hyperbole"?

                            You've moved the goalposts of this entire conversation right off the page.

                            Disingenuousness does not suit you...
                            I not only resent the allegation, I resent the alligator!

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                            • prolurkerguy
                              prolurkerguy commented
                              Editing a comment
                              Really? It seems to fit him perfectly

                            • Phil O'Keefe
                              Phil O'Keefe commented
                              Editing a comment
                              Leave the personal attacks out of the discussion please prolurkerguy...

                          • #60
                            Originally posted by Danocoustic View Post

                            ...and you dare charge "hyperbole"?

                            You've moved the goalposts of this entire conversation right off the page.

                            Disingenuousness does not suit you...
                            didnt move 'em not even an inch.
                            some of them caravanners were disguised as little kids, too.
                            dang devious in my estimation.
                            I got a nail puller for ya if you're still hangin' on the cross, Dan.
                            To you I'm an atheist; but to God, I'm the Loyal Opposition.

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                            • capitalist
                              capitalist commented
                              Editing a comment
                              Nailed it!
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