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Reasonable firearms laws?

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  • #61
    Originally posted by SteinbergerHack View Post

    Yes, and this is precisely why attempts to restrict the rights of law-abiding people won't help.

    Look at the suicide rates by nation. Yes, suicide by firearm is clearly more common here is the US, but our overall suicide rate is low relative to many other nations; in the end, the availability of the particular means isn't what prompts the destructive act.

    Have a look at this list of recent mass murders by vehicle:

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...cks/544603002/

    No amount of vehicle registration or insurance will prevent these incidents, any more than registration of firearms will prevent criminals from killing people.

    Next, have a look at this:

    https://www.investors.com/politics/e...ass-shootings/

    As it turns out, the nations which have higher rates of mass shootings have much stricter gun control laws than we do - yet the fact is that someone bent on carrying out a criminal act simply doesn't pay much attention to the laws that say he/she is not allowed to commit that crime.

    I believe that you are correct - the issue is that we have people who are mentally "broken" and will commit crimes. Trying to take away one subset of their toolkit isn't going to fix their mental health issues, nor will the threat of being arrested for a firearms control violation.
    And that puts you in the camp of "There are NO reasonable gun laws." ?

    The 2nd states that people can bear arms - no age restrictions mentioned, no types of arms mentioned. Anything beyond that sounds like restricting the rights of law abiding citizens.

    Agreed?

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    • #62
      Originally posted by moogerfooger View Post

      only if posted. its interesting that the government wants guns in schools but not in courthouses.
      It is, isn't it?
      Last edited by Fred Fartboski : Today at...

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      • #63
        Originally posted by NOS68 View Post

        How do they prove when you knew it went missing?
        Like with any crime - with evidence in court.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Danocoustic View Post

          In bars? Courthouses? Schools? There are restrictions.
          what? restrictions? how can that be? the constitution clearly states the right of the people shall not be infringed. aren't those restriction an infringement on the right? how can it be a right if its restricted? and if some restrictions are OK, why not others? who decides what restrictions are permissible?

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          • #65
            Originally posted by BA.Barcolounger View Post

            From the time you discover your weapon is missing, I imagine.
            In my case that could be a long time. I own several guns but they are hidden out of sight and I hardly ever look at them. Heck, they could’ve been stolen years ago and I wouldn’t know.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by moogerfooger View Post

              only if posted. its interesting that the government wants guns in schools but not in courthouses.
              Pretty disenguenuous there Moog. Most who want to allow teachers to be allowed to carry would require additional training for those who do, training above any required by the state for a simple CCW.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by HAMMER TOSS View Post
                And that puts you in the camp of "There are NO reasonable gun laws." ?
                No, not at all. I am fully in favor of universal background checks, for example. Too many of our "media hit" events have involved people who should have been barred from having access to a firearm of ANY sort.

                The 2nd states that people can bear arms - no age restrictions mentioned, no types of arms mentioned. Anything beyond that sounds like restricting the rights of law abiding citizens.

                Agreed?
                No. The "in common use for lawful purposes" doctrine (per SCOTUS) makes a lot of sense, IMO. Thus, a standard low-power ranch rifle like an AR-15, a basic hunting rifle, a shotgun, or a handgun is clearly intended to be available to the general public.

                I fully support the NFA listing (and associated background check requirements) for full-autos, grenade launchers, and other "uncommon" firearms. While I cannot see a constitutional way to prohibit those firearms, I see enough destructive capability that there needs to be some reasonable restriction on their civilian ownership.

                I question where the NFA line should be drawn. For example, a .50 BMG has an effective range of well over 1 mile (proven in combat). While I can understand its use for big game (imagine staring down a brown bear), is this something that should be available to anyone with a clean driver's license? To some degree it is financially limited - those things are EXPENSIVE to purchase and operate, but that's a LOT of muzzle energy to be fired unless you have a very long down-range distance. Giving that to an inexperienced operator is like putting a 16-year-old kid in a Formula 1 car - bad things can happen, and very quickly.

                Perhaps there is some sort of middle ground between full NFA and basic entry-level firearms?

                What if basic, common rifles (like .22lr, .30-06, .223, 380, etc.) and handguns like a 9mm or .38 were readily available with the current standard background check, but higher-power alternatives like a Desert Eagle or Barrett .50 required proof of training and a more thorough background check? My fear would be the "slippery slope" of gradually moving the line - but I think that there could be an honest discussion about a point where a firearm requires some level of training and responsibility to handle safely.

                Thoughts?
                Lease this space!

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by BA.Barcolounger View Post

                  Like with any crime - with evidence in court.
                  Sure but unless you've told someone else your gun was lost or stolen and they are willing to testify what other evidence would there be?

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by NOS68 View Post

                    Sure but unless you've told someone else your gun was lost or stolen and they are willing to testify what other evidence would there be?
                    Testimony of a person that made the discovery (not the owner).
                    Police report of a stolen vehicle (which had a weapon inside)
                    Etc.
                    Last edited by BA.Barcolounger; 01-14-2019, 03:01 PM.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by BA.Barcolounger View Post

                      Testimony of a person that made the discovery (not the owner).
                      Police report of a stolen vehicle (which had a weapon inside)
                      Etc.
                      I highly doubt there are many people who would report a stolen vehicle and fail to mention they had a firearm in it. Maybe if they're more focused on their car but do you really want to punish someone for a mind slip in a stressful situation.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by NOS68 View Post

                        I highly doubt there are many people who would report a stolen vehicle and fail to mention they had a firearm in it. Maybe if they're more focused on their car but do you really want to punish someone for a mind slip in a stressful situation.
                        Firearms are a grave responsibility. Mind slips are not a good enough excuse.

                        If someone leaves a baby in the car in the summer, and something bad happens - "I forgot" do want get him off the hook.
                        Last edited by BA.Barcolounger; 01-14-2019, 03:43 PM.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by BA.Barcolounger View Post

                          Firearms are a grave responsibility. Mind slips are not a good enough excuse.

                          If someone leaves a baby in the car in the summer, and something bad happens - "I forgot" do want get him off the hook.
                          You can't be serious, not even close to a fair comparison. Forgetting something during a stressful situation is a bit different than forgetting child in a normal one.

                          Add in that forgetting a child causing harm is a lot different than forgetting to report a stolen firearm which causes no harm.

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                          • #73
                            I favor strong firearm laws like those in the UK.
                            Guns Over People

                            I pledge my allegiance to David Hogg and Emma Gonzalez!!!

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Hoddy View Post
                              I favor strong firearm laws like those in the UK.
                              Why not just move there?
                              Lease this space!

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by BA.Barcolounger View Post

                                Firearms are a grave responsibility. Mind slips are not a good enough excuse.

                                If someone leaves a baby in the car in the summer, and something bad happens - "I forgot" do want get him off the hook.
                                Very bad comparison. My glove compartment is closed and locked, and I do not check it every day. If something were to be stolen from it, I might not know until I open it for a completely unrelated reason.

                                Similarly, if you have antique firearms in a safe or an attic, how often would you expect to check to ensure that they are still there?
                                Lease this space!

                                Comment

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