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Reasonable firearms laws?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Gromit View Post
    Obviously I'm not American, and probably will never visit the US, so your constitution is all but irrelevant to me personally. However, it is relevant to most of the people here, so ...

    Am I correct in thinking that schools in the USA teach 'drivers education'? Do they also (possibly controversially) teach sex education too? Why, then, not have all schools teach basic firearm usage from the age of, say, 15? at least then, there would be less chance of people blowing their own toes off because they don't know what a safety catch is.
    They used to do just that. A lot of rural schools still do, as do the Boy Scouts, 4-H, and a number of other education groups. I would 100% support this concept.
    Lease this space!

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    • #32
      Originally posted by NOS68 View Post

      It should of been fairly clear what I meant as "is" doesn't really fit there while isn't fits perfectly. But yes I made a typo just as you chose to reply in the ignorant manner you did.

      What reasonable gun laws have we fought? None of what I discussed in the OP is reasonable IMO
      "reasonable IMO" says it all.
      Location: The Divided States of America
      ''All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"--Edmund Burke
      Man created science to create what man wants science to create.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Gromit View Post
        Obviously I'm not American, and probably will never visit the US, so your constitution is all but irrelevant to me personally. However, it is relevant to most of the people here, so ...

        Am I correct in thinking that schools in the USA teach 'drivers education'? Do they also (possibly controversially) teach sex education too? Why, then, not have all schools teach basic firearm usage from the age of, say, 15? at least then, there would be less chance of people blowing their own toes off because they don't know what a safety catch is.
        That may be a good start for improved safety, but it needs to be combine with effective oversight & safety restrictions....ie....laws. Isn't it strange how easily we can get more restrictive vehicle laws passed pretty easily, yet continue to have this tooth & nail fight on every single gun restriction law put forth.

        btw...... Even with drivers education, the highest auto accident rate is still the 16-19 year old. That is the group that, theoretically, should be the safest, if you consider the time frame of their education.
        You can lead them to the trough, but........
        Location: The Divided States of America
        ''All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"--Edmund Burke
        Man created science to create what man wants science to create.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by stratosaurus View Post

          That may be a good start for improved safety, but it needs to be combine with effective oversight & safety restrictions....ie....laws.
          Why? Why do you believe that safety training isn't am efffective step in and of itself?
          Lease this space!

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          • #35
            Originally posted by NOS68 View Post

            What brings about proposals like this is pure ignorance. You don't propose laws on a subject you have very little knowledge about.
            What? They do it all the time. usually at a specific interest groups behest

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          • #36
            Originally posted by Grumpy_Polecat View Post

            Is that being taught? If it is, some people apparently need a remedial course.
            I don't think it's the faulty of operating of firearms that is the problem here. It's faulty brains.

            Please let me know if there is a training regimen for that.

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            • #37
              Originally posted by HAMMER TOSS View Post

              I don't think it's the faulty of operating of firearms that is the problem here. It's faulty brains.

              Please let me know if there is a training regimen for that.

              Q: what's one great way to improve faulty brains?

              A: EDUCATION
              I not only resent the allegation, I resent the alligator!

              Comment


              • #38
                Originally posted by Gromit View Post
                Obviously I'm not American, and probably will never visit the US, so your constitution is all but irrelevant to me personally. However, it is relevant to most of the people here, so ...

                Am I correct in thinking that schools in the USA teach 'drivers education'? Do they also (possibly controversially) teach sex education too? Why, then, not have all schools teach basic firearm usage from the age of, say, 15? at least then, there would be less chance of people blowing their own toes off because they don't know what a safety catch is.
                We have that in WV

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                • #39
                  Originally posted by Danocoustic View Post

                  Q: what's one great way to improve faulty brains?

                  A: EDUCATION
                  I hear what you are saying. I didn't mean faulty brains in terms of ignorance. I meant in terms of greedy, violent, immoral human beings.

                  People aren't out there killing, robbing and raping because they are not educated in firearm usage.

                  Now, if you want to talk about generally educating people so they can get jobs, set goals, and be productive members, that's another discussion. But again, that type of education has zero to do with firearm usage, or teaching gun safety in school. - it's has to do with being a decent, moral person. That education starts at home when people are still in diapers.

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                  • #40
                    Originally posted by HAMMER TOSS View Post

                    I hear what you are saying. I didn't mean faulty brains in terms of ignorance. I meant in terms of greedy, violent, immoral human beings.

                    People aren't out there killing, robbing and raping because they are not educated in firearm usage.

                    Now, if you want to talk about generally educating people so they can get jobs, set goals, and be productive members, that's another discussion. But again, that type of education has zero to do with firearm usage, or teaching gun safety in school. - it's has to do with being a decent, moral person. That education starts at home when people are still in diapers.
                    I concur. You're right, we were talking about two different things.

                    Yet I'm going to question what you said bolded above. I believe these things go hand in hand with the other goals/priorities you stated.

                    Trying to communicate effectively through just TYPING has so many drawbacks! We might be talking across each other here, It's hard to tell.
                    I not only resent the allegation, I resent the alligator!

                    Comment


                    • #41
                      Originally posted by Danocoustic View Post

                      I concur. You're right, we were talking about two different things.

                      Yet I'm going to question what you said bolded above. I believe these things go hand in hand with the other goals/priorities you stated.

                      Trying to communicate effectively through just TYPING has so many drawbacks! We might be talking across each other here, It's hard to tell.
                      So true Dano. Some things just don't translate well in this format.

                      Imo the problems we see with gun violence in this country wont be remedied by gun training classes. Learning how to load, clean, and aim a weapon are great, but it surely wont make a dent in gun violence. Even gun safety classes. How much of the gun violence we see is a result of unsafe practices? Not much is my guess.

                      I guess in a nutshell, gun safety and training are not going to stop anybody from shooting up a school or a workplace, shooting up a club or concert, or car jacking somebody, or robbing a bank, or joining a gang, or committing suicide .

                      Those things MIGHT be mitigated by economic opportunity and available mental health services. But not firearm training.

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                      • #42
                        Originally posted by HAMMER TOSS View Post

                        So true Dano. Some things just don't translate well in this format.

                        Imo the problems we see with gun violence in this country wont be remedied by gun training classes. Learning how to load, clean, and aim a weapon are great, but it surely wont make a dent in gun violence. Even gun safety classes. How much of the gun violence we see is a result of unsafe practices? Not much is my guess.

                        I guess in a nutshell, gun safety and training are not going to stop anybody from shooting up a school or a workplace, shooting up a club or concert, or car jacking somebody, or robbing a bank, or joining a gang, or committing suicide .

                        Those things MIGHT be mitigated by economic opportunity and available mental health services. But not firearm training.
                        Now I read you 5x5. Thanks for the clarification.

                        You're right. There is a major disconnect between gun SAFETY and gun CRIME. In fact---firearms education could be a way to teach criminals to be even MORE effective in the commission of their crimes, and who wants that?

                        I can't find any easy or obvious answers. Our culture has evolved some serious problems, and I'm damned if I know what to do about it. The two things you mention would most certainly help---but what realistic chance of them actually happening, in this convoluted political reality we live in?

                        It's a conundrum.
                        I not only resent the allegation, I resent the alligator!

                        Comment


                        • #43
                          Originally posted by SteinbergerHack View Post

                          Why? Why do you believe that safety training isn't am efffective step in and of itself?
                          I didn't say it wasn't. I said it was just one step, but just as with driver education, training doesn't guarantee compliance & maximum safety. Safety training goes in tandem with safety regulations that must be continually evaluated & if necessary, modified to make the whole system the most efficient & effective that is possible. As with autos, the same methods should be applied to firearms of every type.
                          As was said above, the reality is that we're not not talking about the problem of gun safety, we're talking above the problem of gun crime.
                          Last edited by stratosaurus; 01-14-2019, 08:24 AM.
                          Location: The Divided States of America
                          ''All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"--Edmund Burke
                          Man created science to create what man wants science to create.

                          Comment


                          • #44
                            Originally posted by Danocoustic View Post
                            Now I read you 5x5. Thanks for the clarification.

                            You're right. There is a major disconnect between gun SAFETY and gun CRIME. In fact---firearms education could be a way to teach criminals to be even MORE effective in the commission of their crimes, and who wants that?
                            Thank you for putting my point more succinctly than I am apparently able to do.

                            I can't find any easy or obvious answers. Our culture has evolved some serious problems, and I'm damned if I know what to do about it. The two things you mention would most certainly help---but what realistic chance of them actually happening, in this convoluted political reality we live in?

                            It's a conundrum.
                            I don't know what the answers are either. We have some very unique problems here in the US. 3 mall shootings, just this weekend.
                            I will say, that it seems like everything we do here is contentious on some level. People don't just disagree anymore, and still communicate. Now it's like as soon as somebody has a different perspective, the hate starts flowing. With me or against me...

                            Add to that the fact the US can be hyper competitive, and people who are busting their tails are barely getting by. Most people are only a few missed paychecks away from being homeless. That puts people on edge.

                            We are fractured. Team spirit for America has disappeared. It sounds like faux patriotism now. People are tired of hearing politicians talk about billions like it means nothing, when a couple thousand could be a life changer for many. Personally I think trump was elected not because people thought he would make a good president, but it was the equivalent of overturning the board game and scattering the pieces everywhere because...why not?

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                            • #45
                              Originally posted by HAMMER TOSS View Post

                              Thank you for putting my point more succinctly than I am apparently able to do.



                              I don't know what the answers are either. We have some very unique problems here in the US. 3 mall shootings, just this weekend.
                              I will say, that it seems like everything we do here is contentious on some level. People don't just disagree anymore, and still communicate. Now it's like as soon as somebody has a different perspective, the hate starts flowing. With me or against me...

                              Add to that the fact the US can be hyper competitive, and people who are busting their tails are barely getting by. Most people are only a few missed paychecks away from being homeless. That puts people on edge.

                              We are fractured. Team spirit for America has disappeared. It sounds like faux patriotism now. People are tired of hearing politicians talk about billions like it means nothing, when a couple thousand could be a life changer for many. Personally I think trump was elected not because people thought he would make a good president, but it was the equivalent of overturning the board game and scattering the pieces everywhere because...why not?
                              Dang.

                              We're a lot more alike than I think either of us previously knew.
                              I not only resent the allegation, I resent the alligator!

                              Comment

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