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  • #61
    Originally posted by guido61 View Post

    I believe various cities and locales provided some assistance to people.

    heres this:

    The history of welfare in the U.S. started long before the government welfare programs we know were created. In the early days of the United States, the colonies imported the British Poor Laws. These laws made a distinction between those who were unable to work due to their age or physical health and those who were able-bodied but unemployed. The former group was assisted with cash or alternative forms of help from the government. The latter group was given public service employment in workhouses.

    https://www.welfareinfo.org/history/
    I suppose I should have been more clear in saying that I meant Gov't in a federal sense. I am fairly certain that is the way the word was used previously.

    We can discuss charity, but the point as I saw it was Gov't Charity rather than charity as a whole. And it is true that at a local level, Gov'ts have provided charity. It is equally true that they have not. It depends on where you live. Charity has existed in some part since the origin of our species.

    It also depends on whether or not you have a right to be there, which brings us to the crux of the biscuit: ILLEGAL Immigrants --regardless of it being deliberate or simple oversight and not renewing a visa-- are NOT entitled to the same rights. Nor CAN they be. An illegal status is an illegal status. A disagreement with what is or is not a legal status is a completely different argument.

    So, in the context of gov't assistance at a FEDERAL level, can you provide evidence that it has been extant since 1789?
    gp

    "You speak with total clarity.
    "And complete irrelevance."
    --Howard Cosell. Said to Minnesota Fats during a matchup with Willie Mosconi.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Donny G

      I strongly disagree.

      Americans have made at least 50,000,000 humans since the 1970's, and then aborted them. Had they let the young humans live a normal life like you and I, then America would have plenty of generations of beautiful young Americans.
      You're making the assumption that abortions were not performed before 1970. I don't think that's a safe assumption.

      These statistics might be of interest:

      Abortion rate in 1972, pre Roe v. Wade: 13.2 per 1000 women of childbearing age
      Abortion rate in 2011: 17.7 per 1000 women of childbearing age
      Abortion rate in 2014: 14.6 per 1000 women of childbearing age

      Granted that 13.2 doubled between 1974 and 1981, but it has been declining ever since, to the point that in a few years it is predicted to fall below pre Roe v. Wade levels.

      The "Abortion Crisis", if indeed there was one, was a couple of generations ago. Thanks to easily available contraception, education, sex ed, better medical access and care we can expect abortion rates to continue to decline, not just in the US but worldwide, where abortion rates have taken a literal nosedive in the developed world and show marked declines in the developing world. The one glaring exception is Russia and former Eastern Bloc countries, which continue to lead the world in abortion rates.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1433765

      https://lozierinstitute.org/how-the-legal-status-of-abortion-impacts-abortion-rates/

      Keep the company of those who seek the truth, and run from those who have found it.

      -- Vaclav Havel

      The Universe is unimaginably vast. For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.

      -- Carl Sagan


      Life - the way it really is - is a battle not between Bad and Good but between Bad and Worse.

      -- Joseph Brodsky

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Grumpy_Polecat View Post

        I suppose I should have been more clear in saying that I meant Gov't in a federal sense. I am fairly certain that is the way the word was used previously.
        That is how I read it as well.

        Keep the company of those who seek the truth, and run from those who have found it.

        -- Vaclav Havel

        The Universe is unimaginably vast. For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.

        -- Carl Sagan


        Life - the way it really is - is a battle not between Bad and Good but between Bad and Worse.

        -- Joseph Brodsky

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Red Ant View Post

          You're making the assumption that abortions were not performed before 1970. I don't think that's a safe assumption.

          These statistics might be of interest:

          Abortion rate in 1972, pre Roe v. Wade: 13.2 per 1000 women of childbearing age
          Abortion rate in 2011: 17.7 per 1000 women of childbearing age
          Abortion rate in 2014: 14.6 per 1000 women of childbearing age

          Granted that 13.2 doubled between 1974 and 1981, but it has been declining ever since, to the point that in a few years it is predicted to fall below pre Roe v. Wade levels.

          The "Abortion Crisis", if indeed there was one, was a couple of generations ago. Thanks to easily available contraception, education, sex ed, better medical access and care we can expect abortion rates to continue to decline, not just in the US but worldwide, where abortion rates have taken a literal nosedive in the developed world and show marked declines in the developing world. The one glaring exception is Russia and former Eastern Bloc countries, which continue to lead the world in abortion rates.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aborti..._United_States

          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1433765

          https://lozierinstitute.org/how-the-...bortion-rates/
          So you and your family escaped communist Russia only to come here be and liberals? So smart, wow awesome!
          Last edited by Daehtihs; 01-10-2019, 07:19 PM.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Daehtihs View Post

            So you and your family escaped communist Russia only to come here be and liberals? So smart, wow awesome!
            I am the farthest thing from a liberal you've ever encountered.
            Keep the company of those who seek the truth, and run from those who have found it.

            -- Vaclav Havel

            The Universe is unimaginably vast. For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.

            -- Carl Sagan


            Life - the way it really is - is a battle not between Bad and Good but between Bad and Worse.

            -- Joseph Brodsky

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Red Ant View Post

              I am the farthest thing from a liberal you've ever encountered.
              Really? I doubt it.

              Comment


              • Daehtihs
                Daehtihs commented
                Editing a comment
                Sorry for my dyslexia, my sentences suck sometimes.

            • #67
              Originally posted by Daehtihs View Post

              Really? I doubt it.
              Well, I'm not a fascist, so if you've encountered those I'm to the left of them

              Believe it or not it is possible to be staunchly politically conservative and not be in any way religious. Likewise it is entirely possible to be staunchly conservative without marching in lockstep with every policy the US conservative establishment espouses.
              Last edited by Red Ant; 01-10-2019, 07:31 PM.
              Keep the company of those who seek the truth, and run from those who have found it.

              -- Vaclav Havel

              The Universe is unimaginably vast. For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.

              -- Carl Sagan


              Life - the way it really is - is a battle not between Bad and Good but between Bad and Worse.

              -- Joseph Brodsky

              Comment


              • #68
                Originally posted by Red Ant View Post

                Well, I'm not a fascist, so if you've encountered those I'm to the left of them

                Believe it or not it is possible to be staunchly politically conservative and not be in any way religious.
                Well. I agree with that, I don't wear religion on my sleeve. How in the hell can anyone claim to know the mind of God?

                Comment


                • #69
                  Originally posted by Daehtihs View Post

                  Well. I agree with that, I don't wear religion on my sleeve. How in the hell can anyone claim to know the mind of God?
                  My conservatism rests on several positions:
                  • An opposition to collectivism (while recognizing the necessity of a State, and an awareness of the balance between liberty and security)
                  • Strong support for market capitalism (while recognizing the necessity of some regulation, as well as a certain level of a social safety net - both to offset the market's inevitable excesses)
                  • A belief in the exceptionalism of the American political experiment
                  • A deep reverence for the vision of the Founding Fathers and the Constitutiom it produced.
                  • The belief in the necessity of American leadership on the world stage, and therefore support for both military and political/diplomatic American strength
                  Last edited by Red Ant; 01-10-2019, 07:58 PM.
                  Keep the company of those who seek the truth, and run from those who have found it.

                  -- Vaclav Havel

                  The Universe is unimaginably vast. For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.

                  -- Carl Sagan


                  Life - the way it really is - is a battle not between Bad and Good but between Bad and Worse.

                  -- Joseph Brodsky

                  Comment


                  • #70
                    Originally posted by Hoddy View Post
                    Americans aren't making enough babies to replace ourselves!!!!

                    Americans aren't making enough babies to replace ourselves

                    https://www.nbcnews.com/health/women...m_npd_nn_fb_ma

                    There's a downside to this?
                    Sorry about that. I took that old saying, "if you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em," seriously.
                    I couldn't afford children, so I didn't have any. Also, I knew what kind of temper my ex-
                    wife had, and decided not to bring children into the world subject to her tender mercies.

                    That, and all those "Nice Boys Don't Get Girls Pregnant" lectures in high school.
                    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________
                    How Come Other People Can Get Away With Jokes Like That?

                    Face it Tea Bagging Neo-Cons...if Reagan ran today, you'd be calling him a RINO socialist! -- scott666

                    Barack Obama must be kenyan - everytime he speaks they trot a translator out the next day to explain what he said.-- ToBeAnnounced

                    And even then some people still don't understand.-- RogueGnome

                    Comment


                    • #71
                      Originally posted by Daehtihs View Post

                      How in the hell can anyone claim to know the mind of God?
                      And yet billions do, on a daily basis.
                      Last edited by Red Ant; 01-10-2019, 09:51 PM.
                      Keep the company of those who seek the truth, and run from those who have found it.

                      -- Vaclav Havel

                      The Universe is unimaginably vast. For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.

                      -- Carl Sagan


                      Life - the way it really is - is a battle not between Bad and Good but between Bad and Worse.

                      -- Joseph Brodsky

                      Comment


                      • #72
                        Originally posted by Red Ant View Post

                        You're making the assumption that abortions were not performed before 1970. I don't think that's a safe assumption.

                        These statistics might be of interest:

                        Abortion rate in 1972, pre Roe v. Wade: 13.2 per 1000 women of childbearing age
                        Abortion rate in 2011: 17.7 per 1000 women of childbearing age
                        Abortion rate in 2014: 14.6 per 1000 women of childbearing age

                        Granted that 13.2 doubled between 1974 and 1981, but it has been declining ever since, to the point that in a few years it is predicted to fall below pre Roe v. Wade levels.

                        The "Abortion Crisis", if indeed there was one, was a couple of generations ago. Thanks to easily available contraception, education, sex ed, better medical access and care we can expect abortion rates to continue to decline, not just in the US but worldwide, where abortion rates have taken a literal nosedive in the developed world and show marked declines in the developing world. The one glaring exception is Russia and former Eastern Bloc countries, which continue to lead the world in abortion rates.

                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States

                        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1433765

                        https://lozierinstitute.org/how-the-legal-status-of-abortion-impacts-abortion-rates/
                        As long as innocent human beings are being murdered off by the hundreds of thousands, it is not a questionable crisis.


                        Comment


                        • The Badger
                          The Badger commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Tell that to the Saudis, the terrorists, the Russians, the Turks, the Iranians, the Israelis, and while you're at it, an obscene number of American "patriots." You're worried about unborn foetuses that may or may not grow up to be people. I'm talking about people -- many of them children -- who are already born and are being slaughtered by dictators, religious fanatics and greedy people who are only in it for the money, no matter who they hurt.

                        • AJ6stringsting
                          AJ6stringsting commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Don't worry Badger, the Republicans and Evilvangelicals are working on a White Christian Califitical Jihadists .... Timothy McVeigh and Timothy Nichols were so 1990's, Trump / Alex Jones reborn Terrorism will make their presents felt very soon .... At a school convert or Mall near you.
                          Don't be surprised if it's that White Nationalistic Neo Confederates in the South that want to hook up with Russians.
                          Last edited by AJ6stringsting; 01-11-2019, 10:48 PM.

                      • #73
                        Originally posted by LARRY L View Post

                        As long as innocent human beings are being murdered off by the hundreds of thousands

                        thankfully, they aren't. So, no crisis.



                        Keep the company of those who seek the truth, and run from those who have found it.

                        -- Vaclav Havel

                        The Universe is unimaginably vast. For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.

                        -- Carl Sagan


                        Life - the way it really is - is a battle not between Bad and Good but between Bad and Worse.

                        -- Joseph Brodsky

                        Comment


                        • #74
                          Originally posted by moogerfooger View Post

                          Your corporate masters demand growth.
                          They'll send our children off to war .... While their kids go to Yale and Harvard.

                          Bone spurs anybody ?
                          How many guitarists does it take to screw in a lightbulb ? Five , one to screw it in , hit the switch and four to sit around bragging how much better they could have done it !!!! 😱👹😲

                          Comment


                          • #75
                            Originally posted by guido61 View Post
                            Then you have to raise the wages so they no longer qualify for welfare.

                            How do you propose we do that?
                            That is not the only logical conclusion. In fact, it does not even work out mathematically, for a number of reasons.

                            Basic economics 101 - pay for large categories of jobs will not exceed the market value of those jobs. Not now, not ever. No attempts by government to meddle with market pricing (i.e., mandated pricing of labor) can change this in a sustained manner.

                            In short, if the market determines that the value added for an entry level part time stock clerk is less than your arbitrary idea of a "living wage" or a politically generated "poverty line", then the cost of that arbitrary lifestyle will ALWAYS rise to exceed the mandated labor price.

                            This is basic supply and demand - 1st semester economics.

                            Now, you may decide that socially you have a desire to artificially inflate those workers' lifestyles, but it does not logically follow that you have somehow magically inflated the market value of the jobs that they are doing.
                            Lease this space!

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