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Verizon: Sabotaging Wireline?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by moogerfooger View Post
    I dropped my wire line years ago. at work we use 2 PRI's provided by frontier which bought WV from Verizon several years ago, Ive been resisting a VOIP solution because we dont have the right edge switches. through attrition I'm replacing them but it will be some time before VOIP is a possibility, even then we will have a need for some analog lines. its an interesting situation to watch unfold as the big telco's compete for business is a rapidly changing industry.
    Consider IP phones?
    !

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    • #32
      Originally posted by flemtone View Post
      Verizon did similar in NJ, where they received a blanket franchise agreement for the entire state (as opposed to cable companies, who need to renegotiate their franchise agreements with each town individually). I'm not going to imply that money changed hands, but it certainly was interesting at the time. Verizon promised to wire all of NJ for FIOS compatibility, then fibered up the more affluent areas. When it was time to put fiber in the more urban areas (Irvington, Newark, East Orange, etc), Verizon stopped laying fiber.

      At the time, they seemed to decide that their POTS circuits were too expensive to maintain, so they laid off a boatload of workers (many of whom went to private contracting companies). Verizon then packaged out the POTS maintenance to the subcontractors, thus avoiding having to pay benefits to employees for the maintenance of the old POTS system.

      For the industry in general, wireless is definitely going to be the wave of the future. Maintenance of FTTH or coax to the home is pricey, creating truck rolls for corroded cable, additional set installation, downed lines after storms/snow/wind, etc. To eliminate that last 200' from pole to house would save a buttload of money. Wireless technology is available to eliminate that last 200'. In reality, every MSO from Verizon & AT&T down to Big Bob's Cable Company should be contemplating upgrading their network to wireless instead of the completely outdated hybrid fiber/coax plant.
      Going "wireless" doesn't eliminate the need for outside plant. Even if the end-user's device links to a satellite, the connection requires physical infrastructure when the signal returns to earth. Same for wireless that uses antennas or cell towers. POTS is required for such uses as fire-alarm panels or elevators and desirable for emergency use (police and fire) because it's so reliable.
      !

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      • #33
        Originally posted by GTRMAN View Post
        When I mention wireline, I'm talking about both fiber and copper facilities. Both are worked by the same employees and technicians.
        Not around here.

        POTS is pretty simple. Data, less so, and fiber is more complex yet.
        !

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe View Post

          Wow.

          I'm a Verizon FIOS customer, and I love it. I don't have them for wireless / my phones... just Internet, cable TV and landline... and I wouldn't have the land line if it wasn't cheaper to have it than not.

          I was considering switching to them the next time I update my phones, but maybe I should reconsider that.
          My town, Chesterfield, N.H., just voted to put fiber to every building in town. Consolidated Communicatons Inc., the Bell-System successor that owns the landline network in northern New England, will do the work and provide the service. The town government will borrow $1.8 million, which the company will repay with user fees. And the company will invest $2.4 million. This is for a town of 47 square miles with about 3,700 people.

          Copper landlines will mostly go away. For me, the cost of internet will double, but the speed and reliability will be many times better than what I have -- from $30 a month for 1.5 mbps down and 0.5 up to $60 a month for 10 mbps up and down.
          !

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          • #35
            Originally posted by arf-boy View Post

            Not around here.

            POTS is pretty simple. Data, less so, and fiber is more complex yet.
            Not sure if GTRMAN is still listening here, but you should know that this is his industry - he's been working in the field for quite some time. I would take his word on how these services are delivered and supported.....
            Last edited by SteinbergerHack; 05-24-2019, 07:50 AM.
            Lease this space!

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            • #36
              Originally posted by arf-boy View Post

              Going "wireless" doesn't eliminate the need for outside plant. Even if the end-user's device links to a satellite, the connection requires physical infrastructure when the signal returns to earth. Same for wireless that uses antennas or cell towers. POTS is required for such uses as fire-alarm panels or elevators and desirable for emergency use (police and fire) because it's so reliable.
              I'm well aware of that, which is why I mentioned 'the last 200' instead of the entire fiber or HFC infrastructure. Cell towers are being backed up more and more by fiber infrastructure backhauled to headend or colo facilities. POTS infrastructure is just as fallible as coax or fiber - just (in many cases) a lot older and more in need of maintenance or upgrade.
              ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              Originally Posted by MattACaster : *Runs 2 blocks down the street to Guitar Center, grabs detuned Schecter off the wall, plugs into Line6 Spider and proceeds to bring teh brootalz*

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              • #37
                Originally posted by arf-boy View Post

                My town, Chesterfield, N.H., just voted to put fiber to every building in town. Consolidated Communicatons Inc., the Bell-System successor that owns the landline network in northern New England, will do the work and provide the service. The town government will borrow $1.8 million, which the company will repay with user fees. And the company will invest $2.4 million. This is for a town of 47 square miles with about 3,700 people.

                Copper landlines will mostly go away. For me, the cost of internet will double, but the speed and reliability will be many times better than what I have -- from $30 a month for 1.5 mbps down and 0.5 up to $60 a month for 10 mbps up and down.
                I am currently at 100mbps up/down, and I only have the Internet service now... I use Roku sticks for TV, so that is over the Internet too. I went from ~$265 a month down to about half that, once you include what I pay for PlayStation Vue and a few add on channels.

                You’re going to love the increased speed!
                **********

                "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."
                - George Carlin

                "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."
                - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

                "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."
                - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by arf-boy View Post

                  Not around here.

                  POTS is pretty simple. Data, less so, and fiber is more complex yet.
                  Verizon and AT&T are based on the last two large (old original) AT&T subsidiaries prior to 1984. Verizon came from the merger of New York Telephone and several smaller subsidiaries to form NYNEX. They later changed their name to Verizon. AT&T took a different path. It was Southwestern Bell, the largest individual that (old) AT&T divested in the 1984 split, which came about as a result of a lawsuit brought by a company called MCI (remember them?), which argued that the ATT companies should not use the same computers and personnel as their monopoly business in processing information and dealing with long distance customers. Another player, Sprint, arose from a consolidation of United Telephone and Southern Pacific Railroad, hence the first two letters of the company name. They started out using the railroad easements they already owned to lay fiber optic cable from place to place. Later, they spun off their land lines to a new organization called Embarq.

                  Southwestern Bell, my old employer, began acquiring other phone companies under the leadership of Ed Whitacre, one of the last CEO's to rise through the ranks instead of graduating from places like Wharton. To me, this gave him a unique view of the business. He seemed to think of employees as assets and did a good job of letting attrition shrink the workforce, instead of just laying people off permanently. His efforts brought the original ATT back to the pack and with the exception of Verizon, nearly recreated the company's territory, with the addition of the Mexican phone company TelMex, which got the nickname, Taco Bell. He later came out of retirement to head GM during its dark days in the great recession.
                  "Truth is what stands the test of experience."

                  ...Albert Einstein

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                  • #39
                    What did you do at Southwestern Bell thankyou?

                    My grandmother worked for Pacific Bell for years as did one of my uncle's exes, and my grandmother retired from there, while myself, my ex-wife, a cousin, my great aunt and great uncle, my step father, and my mom's sister all worked for GTE at one time or another. My mom also worked there for years (after being fired from Pac Bell when she was very young) and retired as the head of one of their operating companies at 51.
                    **********

                    "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."
                    - George Carlin

                    "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."
                    - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

                    "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."
                    - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe View Post
                      What did you do at Southwestern Bell thankyou?

                      My grandmother worked for Pacific Bell for years as did one of my uncle's exes, and my grandmother retired from there, while myself, my ex-wife, a cousin, my great aunt and great uncle, and my mom's sister all worked for GTE at one time or another. My mom also worked there for years (after being fired from Pac Bell when she was very young) and retired as the head of one of their operating companies at 51.
                      I was a technician, official title, Customer Services Tech. I installed and maintained phone lines, along with doing some public service in the form of helping customers with other needs, things they weren't aware needed to be done in their homes and other buildings, like cleaning the cottonwood debris and dirt from their air conditioner units. One time, I hopped down into a crawl space to light an elderly lady's furnace. She couldn't understand why her home was so cold. This was way out of my duties, and I could have been in trouble for it, but I'm kind of a softie for people who need a break. The job was both inside and outside, sometimes climbing utility poles, sometimes digging holes to repair underground lines. Every day that I wake up and the weather is bad, I'm glad I retired without too many dings on my body. One huge bonus is that my hands aren't constantly trying to heal from some cut, scrape, cracked skin or burn, which makes playing stringed instruments much more pleasant.
                      "Truth is what stands the test of experience."

                      ...Albert Einstein

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by thankyou View Post

                        I was a technician, official title, Customer Services Tech. I installed and maintained phone lines, along with doing some public service in the form of helping customers with other needs, things they weren't aware needed to be done in their homes and other buildings, like cleaning the cottonwood debris and dirt from their air conditioner units. One time, I hopped down into a crawl space to light an elderly lady's furnace. She couldn't understand why her home was so cold. This was way out of my duties, and I could have been in trouble for it, but I'm kind of a softie for people who need a break. The job was both inside and outside, sometimes climbing utility poles, sometimes digging holes to repair underground lines. Every day that I wake up and the weather is bad, I'm glad I retired without too many dings on my body. One huge bonus is that my hands aren't constantly trying to heal from some cut, scrape, cracked skin or burn, which makes playing stringed instruments much more pleasant.
                        Damn, there's something about being an old-school tech. When I was a cable tech, I did the same things. I would stop, sit and talk with the elderly, helped around their houses, wrote out instructions for those who were forgetful. There were a number of folks who lived alone that I would stop in even without a service call being scheduled just to check up on them and make sure they were ok and see if they needed any help. I knew I would be the only person they would see all week so I'd spend time with them just talking and listening to their stories. It was the best part of the job and totally not within the job description. I finally moved inside when my knees gave out after too many years of hooking poles and went into fiber design (where I am now). Close to retirement but I still remember my 20 years in the field in the 80s-90s and the wonderful friends I made who are most assuredly all gone now. Good on ya, thankyou, for being the best kind of tech - one that cared about the people, not just the customers.
                        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        Originally Posted by MattACaster : *Runs 2 blocks down the street to Guitar Center, grabs detuned Schecter off the wall, plugs into Line6 Spider and proceeds to bring teh brootalz*

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by flemtone View Post

                          Damn, there's something about being an old-school tech. When I was a cable tech, I did the same things. I would stop, sit and talk with the elderly, helped around their houses, wrote out instructions for those who were forgetful. There were a number of folks who lived alone that I would stop in even without a service call being scheduled just to check up on them and make sure they were ok and see if they needed any help. I knew I would be the only person they would see all week so I'd spend time with them just talking and listening to their stories. It was the best part of the job and totally not within the job description. I finally moved inside when my knees gave out after too many years of hooking poles and went into fiber design (where I am now). Close to retirement but I still remember my 20 years in the field in the 80s-90s and the wonderful friends I made who are most assuredly all gone now. Good on ya, thankyou, for being the best kind of tech - one that cared about the people, not just the customers.
                          Thanks for the props. I decided to retire some time after shoulder surgery (rotator cuff). I was laying on the couch, just getting above the pain, watching the '04 Olympics. Watching the high divers climb the tower, I thought retirement was kind of like that first jump. You know you're going to be okay hitting the water, but it still scares the hell out of ya. I was just tired of fearing another injury that would have sent me into retirement somewhat disabled.

                          I regret not taking an optional electronics course after work that was an effort to get more techs in the higher level job titles, called comm tech and systems tech. Pay was the same, but work conditions were a lot better.

                          There's just a fraction of the work force we had, even when I retired twelve years ago.
                          "Truth is what stands the test of experience."

                          ...Albert Einstein

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