Members rrrredrvr Posted April 7, 2011 Members Share Posted April 7, 2011 Some of the clubs here in the Santa Cruz area do not hire bands playing anything other than original material as they're being hit up for royalty payments on songs that cover bands play? Are you seeing this in your area as well? Its already tough enough to find gigs paying enough to pay for transportation costs, and now this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Greg_L Posted April 7, 2011 Members Share Posted April 7, 2011 I hope it's a trend. I HATE cover bands. Long live original bands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted April 7, 2011 Members Share Posted April 7, 2011 I hope it's a trend. I HATE cover bands.Long live original bands. Right, because there aren't enough failing clubs out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted April 7, 2011 Moderators Share Posted April 7, 2011 We endure this trend here, and it has been a major negative on the band scene in Los Angeles. I realize the ASCAP/BMI fees can appear daunting to a club that is not packing in people, but hiring only unknown original bands is generally not going to make the bank either, unless they make it a Pay2Play....and that is basically a downward spiral in smaller towns.Cover bands play music people are familiar with, which brings people in to the venue. And if the music is good, the crowd will stay and party all night, and come back again in a week to see another good band play music they are familiar with. It has been a proven method for decades. But somewhere there is an accountant telling a client "look, the cover bands here cost you $X, and the ASCAP fees are $Y, and you are not pulling in $(X+Y)3 on the nights you have live music, but if you make the bands pay to use your room, and they only play their own original compositions, you will save $X and make $P on those nights, without the $Y to worry about'.I looks good on paper, but seriously, most clubs that do this eventully fail. Why? Because there are not enough bands to fill the bill repeatedly after a few months that are hard up enough to have to sell tickets to their shows, they can't get repeat business off the clientele since they are band specific (and typically walk out after the band they came for is done), most of the bands that will do P2P are crap, and most of them will not draw in a heavy drinking crowd since they already had to essentially pay a cover charge to see a bunch of nobodies who they already know from work/school/church/AA*...Sadly, this takes a while to run it's course, and then the venue fails, and everybody loses. *One of the amazing things I learned working clubs in LA is that there are tons of alcoholics drinking coffee in bars to hear the music. They don't tip, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Poker99 Posted April 7, 2011 Members Share Posted April 7, 2011 How about ROCK BAND/GUITAR HERO nights!? That could surely save bars and the industry!!!!!!! I've read this on Music Think Tank a while ago!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted April 7, 2011 Moderators Share Posted April 7, 2011 where did I put my Glock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Surrealistic Posted April 7, 2011 Members Share Posted April 7, 2011 Nothing against cover bands but sorry guys, if this IS a trend I have to see it as a small piece of good news for those of us who do play original material. Personally, even from the other side of the fence, as an audience member, I'd rather listen to an originals band too - but I know I'm not in the majority. If ASCAP/BMI fees really are too high then eventually some sort of compromise will have to be reached. I guess we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted April 7, 2011 Members Share Posted April 7, 2011 Not seeing that trend here in Tampa. At all. We are big on tourism (the whole state is) and the northern people with pale white skin want to hear Jimmy Buffet while they drink their Coors Light and gawk at the waitresses in skimpy outfits. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I do play from time to time at a coffee shop that only allows original music. When I play there, I don't play any covers. Simple enough. Would this be a good or a bad trend? Can't answer that because it would be good for some people and bad for others. I wouldn't like to see it because my friends who play covers to put food on the table would suffer. And I do agree that a club that goes from covers to originals will go from some customers to none, in many cases. The overwhelming vast majority of people want to hear covers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Greg_L Posted April 7, 2011 Members Share Posted April 7, 2011 Right, because there aren't enough failing clubs out there. Clubs fail because club owners are usually degenerate morons. I've seen countless what-should-have-been-foolproof clubs and bars go under because of poor basic business practices - band hiring not being one of the problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rrrredrvr Posted April 7, 2011 Author Members Share Posted April 7, 2011 Interesting. I should note that while our current band plays all covers, at various times I've been in bands that also did originals (and yes, I can appreciate the feelings of artistic creation and ownership when creating your own material). The problem I see is that MANY all originals amateur bands I've heard are usually boring to listen to all night long. Often, a great many of their songs sound alike. I LIKE cover bands as I love to hear the many different ways a particular song can be interpretted. If they throw in a mix of covers and original, all the better. But, what I really HATE is TRIBUTE BANDS. I fail to see the point here at all? There's nothing artistic (that I can see) about copying someone else's sound, look, clothing, instruments, etc. If anyone should be busted for royalties, its TRIBUTE BANDS for outright plaguerism! But, going back to the royalties issue regarding clubs, who is behind this what appears to be VERY selective enforcement? Are published authors feeling so ripped off that they must now encourage the "Copyright Police" to go from club to club to figure out if someone's playing a cover??? And, it can certainly be argued that many bands add a substantial piece of their own proprietary creative process and artistic content to some decades-old "one-hit-wonder", such that a royalty may not even be appropriate? I just find this shake down of clubs disturbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Greg_L Posted April 7, 2011 Members Share Posted April 7, 2011 But, what I really HATE is TRIBUTE BANDS. . I'm totally with you there. Tribute bands are the worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DukeOfBoom Posted April 7, 2011 Members Share Posted April 7, 2011 I hope it's a trend. I HATE cover bands. Long live original bands. I'm with GregL. I walk out the door if there's a cover band. My opinion is if you're gonna get a cover band, just get a damn DJ. I rather hear the original anyway over someone copying it. The sound quality is better too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators justcrash Posted April 7, 2011 Moderators Share Posted April 7, 2011 Clubs fail because club owners are usually degenerate morons. I've seen countless what-should-have-been-foolproof clubs and bars go under because of poor basic business practices - band hiring not being one of the problems. I would point out the irony of one calling someone else a "moron" when the first line of their sig is "by my album" but this being the Internet, I'm afraid my jovial intention would be mistaken for hostility or worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted April 7, 2011 Moderators Share Posted April 7, 2011 ^ Hey you! Get back into your own forum wuddup, bro? As to tribute bands, I have made my feelings clear on this a number of times, just like I have about 'jukebox cover bands' (that play the songs note-for-note). These are nothing more than a technical exercise, not a creative endeavor, IMHO. I enjoy a cover band that will put their own stamp on the songs, though, since that is what I have been doing for over thirty years. We have watched two unfortunate trends unfold here in Los Angeles over the past few years..pay-2-play originals clubs booking 4-6 bands a night, and the tribute band thing in clubs that used to hire regular cover bands. Keeps me out of the clubs and saves me a lot of bar tabs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Greg_L Posted April 7, 2011 Members Share Posted April 7, 2011 I would point out the irony of one calling someone else a "moron" when the first line of their sig is "by my album" but this being the Internet, I'm afraid my jovial intention would be mistaken for hostility or worse. Irony is lost on me, and I don't care anyway, so knock yourself out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members trainset Posted April 7, 2011 Members Share Posted April 7, 2011 your a moron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted April 7, 2011 Moderators Share Posted April 7, 2011 Now that ^ is ironic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Greg_L Posted April 7, 2011 Members Share Posted April 7, 2011 your a moron Reported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members trevcda Posted April 7, 2011 Members Share Posted April 7, 2011 Yeah, residuals and royalties are for posers! Why would anybody put down a system designed to make sure that musicians get paid for their work? There are some exclusions. Check out item 15 here: http://www.ascap.com/licensing/licensingfaq.html Cover bands torture? Torture is sitting through four "original" bands, struggling to get through five or six of their own poorly written, shitty songs, to hear one band that has thier shit together, play through a piss poor PA to a small crowd that bitches about a two dollar cover charge and three dollar beers. I'll go every time, but that versus some hot twenty year olds grinding to some well known cover band... Hmmm. And irony? It's a dish best served obliviously. P.S. Trainset, please tell me that was intentional!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted April 7, 2011 Members Share Posted April 7, 2011 Clubs fail because club owners are usually degenerate morons. I've seen countless what-should-have-been-foolproof clubs and bars go under because of poor basic business practices - band hiring not being one of the problems. You may be right, but where I live every originals-only club has failed, without exception, and every time one opens, it's gone in less than a year. FWIW, I do both- I play covers and mix originals in with them. I get paid for a full night's work and I get to sell CDs, get booked for festivals and concerts where I play all original, and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Greg_L Posted April 7, 2011 Members Share Posted April 7, 2011 Yeah, residuals and royalties are for posers! Why would anybody put down a system designed to make sure that musicians get paid for their work? There are some exclusions. Check out item 15 here: http://www.ascap.com/licensing/licensingfaq.html Cover bands torture? Torture is sitting through four "original" bands, struggling to get through five or six of their own poorly written, shitty songs, to hear one band that has thier shit together, play through a piss poor PA to a small crowd that bitches about a two dollar cover charge and three dollar beers. I'll go every time, but that versus some hot twenty year olds grinding to some well known cover band... Hmmm. And irony? It's a dish best served obliviously. P.S. Trainset, please tell me that was intentional!!! Dude, you are too angry over this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted April 7, 2011 Members Share Posted April 7, 2011 Dude, you are too angry over this. You don't see maybe why? A guy asked a question and you pretty much used it as an excuse to {censored} all over what a lot of guys here do musically. If I was 1) a strictly cover band guy and 2) gave a flying crap what anyone else thinks, I might be pissed too. Just sayin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Greg_L Posted April 7, 2011 Members Share Posted April 7, 2011 You don't see maybe why? A guy asked a question and you pretty much used it as an excuse to shit all over what a lot of guys here do musically. If I was 1) a strictly cover band guy and 2) gave a flying crap what anyone else thinks, I might be pissed too. Just sayin'. I didn't "shit all over" anything. I didn't say anything about anyone playing in a cover band. I didn't suggest that anyone was less of a musician for playing in one or that they should stop. I just said I hate them, and I do. Is that okay? There's a lot of over-sensitivity here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators justcrash Posted April 8, 2011 Moderators Share Posted April 8, 2011 I didn't "shit all over" anything. I didn't say anything about anyone playing in a cover band. I didn't suggest that anyone was less of a musician for playing in one or that they should stop. I just said I hate them, and I do. Is that okay? There's a lot of over-sensitivity here. You'll understand how you approached this wrong when you get older, my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Greg_L Posted April 8, 2011 Members Share Posted April 8, 2011 You'll understand how you approached this wrong when you get older, my friend. The only thing I did wrong was have an opinion at harmony central. People agreed with me. Where's the anger directed at them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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