Members Keith SIO Posted June 24, 2007 Members Share Posted June 24, 2007 My newest band is a year and a half old, and we have pretty good chemistry as friends ans musicians, but we always struggle with communication (practice times, someone disliking a song...etc.) Also, the frontman has written all of the songs and never accepts mine or the other guitarists ideas...we'll play them for about 3 practices then he'll suddenly say "it's not working" and it pisses everyone off.. Well today he cancelled one of my songs, and I had enough, I got sick of never having a song to call my own and him always having his way. It ended with everyone agreeing it was best to finally stop all of the fighting, and end the band. I feel sad that it's over because it was working out. I want to still do this band, I just hate the idea of all of the songs being from the frontman. I could jsut talk to him and try to get eveyrone on the same page again...but this time it's pretty bad. It has happened before. We are a four piece and 3 of the four members don't want to pursue it anymore. I do. We all have it in our hearts kind of, and we all can still hang out and be friends and all, but I dunno... What should I do? Let it be over...try to heal the wounds (which will probably lead to the same thign happening again even tohugh we make progress each time)...wait a month and see what's up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KennethNishimot Posted June 24, 2007 Members Share Posted June 24, 2007 I propose you burn the bridges with your three bandmates to a crisp, then go solo and become completely famous. Studies have shown that the most successful musicians are the ones who burn the most bridges. BELIEVE IT. Or... you could just wait a while and talk to everybody, hell, who knows? You might find a new band, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Keith SIO Posted June 24, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 24, 2007 I propose you burn the bridges with your three bandmates to a crisp, then go solo and become completely famous. Studies have shown that the most successful musicians are the ones who burn the most bridges. BELIEVE IT.Or... you could just wait a while and talk to everybody, hell, who knows? You might find a new band, etc... For me being in a band is was more fun that going solo. I do my own crap on the side, but I put more dedication into a band effort. I could find a new band, but these guys are just what I am looking for musician wise... I suppose I just have to play the waiting game and see what happens in near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members brassic Posted June 24, 2007 Members Share Posted June 24, 2007 Sounds like the singer was the one with the ego problem. Form a band with the other guys and get a new singer. Or take over the vocals yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members corbind Posted June 24, 2007 Members Share Posted June 24, 2007 Leave the band or fire the singer and find another one. There's no way I could be in a band if I had zero say in the songs. It's just no fun that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Keith SIO Posted June 24, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 24, 2007 I have say in my parts...but the skeleton of the songs are always from him...it's fun but at the same time it sucks. I think I am jsut going to wait a month and see if the other guys want to play with me again. If I practice singing while im out, I could probably take that duty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted June 24, 2007 Members Share Posted June 24, 2007 I have say in my parts...but the skeleton of the songs are always from him...it's fun but at the same time it sucks. I think I am jsut going to wait a month and see if the other guys want to play with me again. If I practice singing while im out, I could probably take that duty. The bottom line is you have a dictator for a singer - he's running the show. Are you willing to do what he says, when he says? Can he bring the goods and good paying gigs to make it worth your while? Are his songs more enjoyable and going over with the audiences better than yours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Keith SIO Posted June 24, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 24, 2007 The bottom line is you have a dictator for a singer - he's running the show.Are you willing to do what he says, when he says? Can he bring the goods and good paying gigs to make it worth your while? Are his songs more enjoyable and going over with the audiences better than yours? I'd say we are limited because of him, yet he has a ton of talent. I feel like if we had songs that were written by myself or the other guitarist we would have more variety. I can deal with all his songs, but it pisses me off sometimes, hence why everyone left. It is stupid that he has to complain about me beign mad even though he always gets his way. I am hoping he comes crawling back becasue he can't find another band that had what we had going. Also hope he changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jive4005 Posted June 24, 2007 Members Share Posted June 24, 2007 What should I do? Well, in 40 years of gigs and bands I've heard ( and asked) that one a few times. Guess the reall answer is... settle for what you have OR start something new. Weighing the pros & cons with bands is hard. It'll certainly depend upon your own personal priorities. My best advice is to really give it some thought and whatever you decide, be kind and honest to the band. Being a young music type, you want a GOOD rep out their. Life can be very long and lonely when nobody wants you in their bands. And remember that your band mates have put in a lot of time and energy, so show respect. And... NEVER make big (band... or any other topic) decisions when you are angry! The results will suck for everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted June 24, 2007 Members Share Posted June 24, 2007 Well the advice I have for you AND your bandmates (including the singer) is this: what matters is the song, not who wrote the song. Serve the song, not people's egos. Sometimes it so happens that in a band there's only one person who can really write songs well (or in a marketable style), and that person ends up becoming a "dictator" of sorts in the band. If the songs are good, the other band members are wise to shut the hell up and play the songs - many bands don't even have ONE good songwriter. But then, sometimes more than one person really is skilled at writing. It is hard to be objective about your own material, but you have to try to step back, and/or solicit the opinions of some other folks you trust (like playing them demos of both your songs and his) and see if you really can write a song. Then again maybe HE's the one who can't write, although it sounds as if you don't feel that way. And as you say, you have input on the arrangements so it's not as if you have zero creative say. If your songs are good but are in a different style than his, you might think it gives you more variety but he might think it detracts from the band having a defined style. In that case it depends on what you all want out of the band - is it strictly for fun or are you trying to come up with something saleable? If it's strictly for fun, then there's no reason everybody can't write songs even if you don't all like every one of them. If you're trying to create something saleable, then maybe you should try to find a producer or some other third party who can help you make song decisions objectively. But you would ALL have to sit down and agree to get your egos out of the way and decide which are the best songs, regardless of who wrote them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Keith SIO Posted June 25, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 25, 2007 Well the advice I have for you AND your bandmates (including the singer) is this: what matters is the song, not who wrote the song. Serve the song, not people's egos.Sometimes it so happens that in a band there's only one person who can really write songs well (or in a marketable style), and that person ends up becoming a "dictator" of sorts in the band. If the songs are good, the other band members are wise to shut the hell up and play the songs - many bands don't even have ONE good songwriter.But then, sometimes more than one person really is skilled at writing. It is hard to be objective about your own material, but you have to try to step back, and/or solicit the opinions of some other folks you trust (like playing them demos of both your songs and his) and see if you really can write a song. Then again maybe HE's the one who can't write, although it sounds as if you don't feel that way. And as you say, you have input on the arrangements so it's not as if you have zero creative say.If your songs are good but are in a different style than his, you might think it gives you more variety but he might think it detracts from the band having a defined style. In that case it depends on what you all want out of the band - is it strictly for fun or are you trying to come up with something saleable? If it's strictly for fun, then there's no reason everybody can't write songs even if you don't all like every one of them. If you're trying to create something saleable, then maybe you should try to find a producer or some other third party who can help you make song decisions objectively. But you would ALL have to sit down and agree to get your egos out of the way and decide which are the best songs, regardless of who wrote them. The point is for me, we all have a direction soundwise. If we had songs, they would still sound like songs my band would normally have. It would jsut open the doors to more creativity in general. And yes, I have creative say, but its creative say inside of a box. i can't be everything I can be. If a songs main idea was my own, I could offer everything that I can that isn't inside of the box of haivng to play under someone else's part. The band as a whole is very talented, but needs more diversity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted June 25, 2007 Members Share Posted June 25, 2007 And yes, I have creative say, but its creative say inside of a box. i can't be everything I can be. If a songs main idea was my own, I could offer everything that I can that isn't inside of the box of haivng to play under someone else's part. Yeah I understand that. But here's the thing - almost nobody in a real "band" situation has 100% creative freedom or even close. And lots of people have given up creative freedom because they like the band, and maybe find other outlets like a side project, solo project or whatever, where they can do whatever they want. In a band, you don't get to do everything you want, but sometimes the sum of the parts is better than what you thought you wanted. And sometimes it takes a lot of arguing to get wherever you're going - many famous bands are legendary for not getting along because two or three members are all trying to take everybody in a different direction. But they stick it out because the bottom line is they love the result most of the time. I think that it's in many people's nature to focus on what they don't have rather than what they do have, until it's too late and what they have is gone. I'm not saying you're doing that - I really have no idea cuz I'm not there and everybody's individual case is different. But just something to think about. Also, have you all really sat down together and talked about this issue? Not in the heat of an argument but when everybody is calm. Point out that the singer has nixed every one of your songs and that you feel he's nixing them not because they are bad songs, but because he wants control over all the songs. Do your other bandmates agree on this point? Do they like your songs? If so it's worth talking to him in a reasonable way to see what he says. If nobody is willing to straight-up communicate, that usually never leads to anything good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jonnythesaint Posted June 25, 2007 Members Share Posted June 25, 2007 ok dudes, I'll come at this from both sides. 1) I'm in a band with a similiar situation, only I'm slightly the dictating egotistical singer. From that stand point, ultimately what I say goes. If I'm not feeling it, I'm not feeling it. And people accept that because they have some sort of faith in me or feel that I'm too good to piss off or something...I don't know why. 2) I write all the melodies and lyrics for now, but I'm always open to anything that is imo 'good'. Also I play guitar [bass as well] and piano but only about 1/2 of our songs started with something I created. Mostly someone will have a riff and we'll jam and create around that riff. BUT I'll never take full credit for the song because it's a collaboration, so it's under all of our names. 3)I think we'd all like to think we have veto power, and maybe to an extent we do, we take a majority rule stance, 3/4 makes it a go, [perhaps except if I'm that 1/4, like if they make a song that I don't like then it's no go, but if I make a song that they don't like it's still a no go.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chunkytele Posted June 25, 2007 Members Share Posted June 25, 2007 My newest band is a year and a half old, and we have pretty good chemistry as friends ans musicians, but we always struggle with communication (practice times, someone disliking a song...etc.) Also, the frontman has written all of the songs and never accepts mine or the other guitarists ideas...we'll play them for about 3 practices then he'll suddenly say "it's not working" and it pisses everyone off.. It way too soon to walk away. the year time frame just when the music and creative process gets serious is exactly when these type on conflicts surface. That is a good thing. Why - because good bands fight struggle an then come togetherin the creative process. Just lay some ground rules since there dont seem to be any. 1. all input is welcome and received2. Consensus, not one person, picks the songs we play or pay me like a session player3 Respect best wishes - keep your head up!!!3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Keith SIO Posted June 25, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 25, 2007 hmm interesting new replies..I appreciate all the advice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gorgon90 Posted June 25, 2007 Members Share Posted June 25, 2007 I think that you need some outside input from people who can be objective about it all. Get some people to listen and say one way or the other whether your songs add to the diversity of the band or detract from the main theme. Also what Chunkytele said about ground rules is essential, if there isn't respect and open communication then things aren't going to happen. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratKat Posted June 25, 2007 Members Share Posted June 25, 2007 The age old question.... Should i cut and run, or try to fix it? Q.- Are you learning and getting better with the band as it goes along?A.- If yes stay, if no then leave. Q.- Does the band have any leads on success currently?A.- If yes stay, no leave. Q.- Do you have other bands to gig with?A.- If yes leave, no stay. Q.- Do you have the equipment to do your own gig?A.- Yes leave, no stay. Alrighty.... Its like this, and it aint rocket science. Young bands/members dont see the big picture of time. Im 49, and for most of this biz ive "ben dare, dun dat!" a few times. Bands will come and go. Friends come and go. Women come... and go. Equipment changes, needs change, and musicians by and large are the biggest bunch of whiners and egomaniacs ive ever known. Get used to change. If you are getting better and have a light at the end of the tunnel then ride this train. If its dead end time jump off. Because if it doesnt make you better, or richer, or happier, then WTF are you doing there? To make HIS dream come true? To make HIM a star? To be used and then later kicked out? Be realistic, but patient. Make no descisions in anger or rushed. Be a business man and think this through for YOUR benefit. You create and make your destiny and your mistakes. Being buds in a band is a swell thing. And if the band is just for fun then have fun or go somewhere else and FIND fun. But if its about Makin it! Then be realistic and evaluate your situation according to how much success is this band headed for and how long will it take. And then decide if you can work with the prick long enough to profit from HIM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratKat Posted June 25, 2007 Members Share Posted June 25, 2007 A lady friend of mine came over while i was posting the above and she read all through the other posts. She may have your answer..... She says; "There are leaders and followers, bosses and workers, dictaters and woshipers. And it wont ever change.Decide what you wanna be and be it. " Sort a sums it up for some of what you asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Keith SIO Posted June 25, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 25, 2007 Hmm..even more interesting replies. Guess I just gotta make a decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratKat Posted June 25, 2007 Members Share Posted June 25, 2007 Pics? She doesnt stay in one position long enough to get those... And she has since left so i can get with saying THAT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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