What's a Sound Check?

[SeniorBlues]

I would say its purpose is to achieve the best tone and volume balance of all the instruments, including vocals, for the venue you're playing. There's a huge difference in my mind between doing this in an empty room, and playing what amounts to the first song of the set and using it for the purpose.

 

My first gig with a band several months ago started with the drummer/leader telling me to play something in Gm with just him and the bass player. Huh? Why not include the other five band members? Why not play an actual song, preferably one we've rehearsed? Better yet, if you have to sound check as part of the first set as was the case here, why not arrange a song that starts with the drums, adds bass, then keys, etc? (I talked him into doing just that for the next gig.)

 

You're making a first impression. If you can't do a sound check prior to the show, then you have to start the show without one, by definition. Start the show strong and figure it out as you go.

[mstreck]

It's also a good time to get your monitor mixes set. I like to get that straightened out first, then the sound man can fix what he needs to fix out front.

[KeysBear]

 

I would say its purpose is to achieve the best tone and volume balance of all the instruments, including vocals, for the venue you're playing. There's a huge difference in my mind between doing this in an empty room, and playing what amounts to the first song of the set and using it for the purpose. My first gig with a band several months ago started with the drummer/leader telling me to play something in Gm with just him and the bass player. Huh? Why not include the other five band members? Why not play an actual song, preferably one we've rehearsed? Better yet, if you have to sound check as part of the first set as was the case here, why not arrange a song that starts with the drums, adds bass, then keys, etc? (I talked him into doing just that for the next gig.) You're making a first impression. If you can't do a sound check prior to the show, then you have to start the show without one, by definition. Start the show strong and figure it out as you go.

 

 

a sound check is when the sound guy tweaks the fine details of every drum mic, dials in killer bass, tells the guitarists to scale it back a bit, checks all vocal mics, and then sets the keys at a level that will never be heard for the rest of the show.

[SeniorBlues]

Soundman? Monitors? Drum mics? We had none of those last week.

 

Mostly, I'm trying to get at the fact that in many venues where setting up hours in advance is not practical, the first song you play is often used as a sound check. But don't forget . . . . it's your opening number!

[StratGuy22]

 

It's also a good time to get your monitor mixes set. I like to get that straightened out first, then the sound man can fix what he needs to fix out front.

 

 

I always get the monitors first, I make sure everyone in the band is happy wirh their monitor mix, even the keyboard player, who should also have their own keyboard amp. I can get FOH dialed in before the first chorus, if I need to.

[Chaff67]

 

It's also a good time to get your monitor mixes set. I like to get that straightened out first, then the sound man can fix what he needs to fix out front.

 

 

+1 on this.

[SeniorBlues]

Sometimes the keyboard player doesn't realize the keyboard is a background instrument, and it's not Jimmy keyboard and the boys. When I play guitar I have a rhythm volume and a lead volume. If I'm not playing lead, I'm sitting in the mix. Our keyboard player was complaining that she couldn't hear herself while the guitar player was playing a solo. When it's time for the keyboard solo, it gets bumped up out in front, but after that it's back sitting in the mix. Also, keyboard players don't need to use their left hand at all. There's a bass player, whose specific job is to play bass notes.

 

I'm assuming you've played songs where guitar and bass play in unison. I'm also assuming you've never played a song where LH keys - usually piano - and bass play in unison. Listen to Leon Russell and Dr. John. Yes they're the leaders, but the alternative is to have the band set up as Joe Picker and His Friends.

 

Or maybe you take turns.

 

The recent threads about set lists are a reminder why I was out of the business for so long. If a studio mix on a hit record puts the keys way back in the mix except for maybe an intro or a signature line, that leads guys to assume that: a) the keys weren't playing for the whole song and b) that the keys wouldn't be playing much of anything live.

 

If you don't want a keyboard player, don't hire one. . . . especially if you already have two guitar players.

 

 

. . . but we've beat this horse to death on this forum many times.

 

I really hope we can talk about the purpose of the first song of the night.

[Vito Corleone]

 

My first gig with a band several months ago started with the drummer/leader telling me to play something in Gm with just him and the bass player. Huh? Why not include the other five band members? Why not play an actual song, preferably one we've rehearsed? Better yet, if you have to sound check as part of the first set as was the case here, why not arrange a song that starts with the drums, adds bass, then keys, etc? (I talked him into doing just that for the next gig.)

 

 

Back in the 5-piece days when I mixed sound from the stage, we did exactly this. Our opening song was always "When the World Is Runnin' Down" by the Police and we'd start with just drums, which he'd play as long as I needed him to get the sound right, then bass would kick in, then the guitar, then the vocals. There was a keyboard solo in the middle at which point the singer/sax player would jump off stage and listen to the keys mix. Then the guitar and sax would take solos and I'd get that.

 

Now we have a soundman at every gig but we still don't always get a soundcheck. We trust him to just dial it in as quickly as he can during the first song regardless of what song it is.

[StratGuy22]

Now we have a soundman at every gig but we still don't always get a soundcheck. We trust him to just dial it in as quickly as he can during the first song regardless of what song it is.

 

We are fortunate enough to have enough set up time that we can do a full soundcheck. I know when I do multiple bands in a bar, I'll sound check the first band prior, and the second one I'll do a quick line check, monitors real quick, and then we are off to the races.

 

[SeniorBlues]

(responding to Dave) That works for FOH. What about individual mixes - monitors, in ears, etc.?

[flanc]

 

Soundman? Monitors? Drum mics? We had none of those last week. Mostly, I'm trying to get at the fact that in many venues where setting up hours in advance is not practical, the first song you play is often used as a sound check. But don't forget . . . . it's your opening number!

 

 

 

We get to a gig 2 hours early and setup: FOH Speaker stack (JBL SRX725 over 2XSRX718 subs on each side), Four monitor mixes (2 IEM and 2 floor monitor), two front stands of tree lighting, rear-truss with crank stand and a hazer, the usually backline and mic stand's for vocalists. This is a lot of heavy stuff with totes carrying stage power, XLR and speaker cabling as well. The band sets all of this up in an hour if we are hustling....an hour 1/2 if we are distracted. That includes putting the cases and totes back in the trailer and moving it from the loading zone. That gives us an 1/2 to an hour to get a drink...mingle and do a quick line-check / half-song sound check.

 

I'm assuming by your comment "no drum mics" that you have no subs and you mentioned no monitor(s) either. Sounds like a speaker-on-a-stick gig that probably takes 15 minutes to setup. Of course, the drummer is gonna take at least 1/2 hour to setup and I'd want to arrive at least an hour early to provide some buffer for that one person who is always late. With a setup that simple, I'd feel comfortable doing as you suggested and doing the sound check as part of a first song (that is sound check conducive). Not sure why you have to get to the gig so very early for that amount of production....

[StratGuy22]

 

(responding to Dave) That works for FOH. What about individual mixes - monitors, in ears, etc.?

 

 

Which one of us is Dave?

[Vito Corleone]

 

(responding to Dave) That works for FOH. What about individual mixes - monitors, in ears, etc.?

 

 

Monitor mixing went along with it. We had 4 different monitor mixes in those days and, at best it would be a bit of somebody telling me "I need more/less this or that" after the first song. At worst they'd be trying to tell me DURING the song which gets confusing and probably looked horrible from the audience perspective. IEMs is a bit different deal because everyone is more or less responsible for doing their own mix from the on-stage mixer.

 

But the idea is that once you get the IEM mix set, it doesn't really change from gig-to-gig because you're not dealing with room acoustics. And that's largely true as long as somebody doesn't go and drastically change the to-the-board level of their instrument.

[the_big_e]

Can you hear me (keys) over the ruddy guitars?

Can you you hear the singer over all of us?

Pretty much sums it up for us!

[JoeDirt]

Sometimes the keyboard player doesn't realize the keyboard is a background instrument, and it's not Jimmy keyboard and the boys. When I play guitar I have a rhythm volume and a lead volume. If I'm not playing lead, I'm sitting in the mix. Our keyboard player was complaining that she couldn't hear herself while the guitar player was playing a solo.

 

We have a country band around here that has a keyboard player who also runs their sound. You can only imagine the levels of cruise ship country coming out of that band.

[Lee Knight]

 

(responding to Dave) That works for FOH. What about individual mixes - monitors, in ears, etc.?

 

 

Monitor mixes shouldn't have to change per venue other the 31 band EQ and wedge volume. The balance should remain the same pretty much. Right? I like my vocal blend equal straight across and a little kick. Bam, doesn't change in the venue cross town. He likes his vocal up and the rest mixed slightly back, nothing else in the mix. Bam, stays the same regardless of where we are.

 

Right?

 

Monitors should be pretty staright ahead with regrads to the mixes. Some basic overall level adjustments adn you're good. Hopefully you can ring out the wedges beforehand. That can take 2 minutes or less if you know what's up.

 

So a first set sound check is about getting the mains right and the on stage balance right. Right?

[stratotastic]

We have a couple really good sound guys we use. We do some individual level setting before we start, then just go. The first couple tunes there's some tweaking going on, but we barely have to think about it. It just works.

[Thy God]

 

Which one of us is Dave?

 

 

Dave's not here, man.

[wades_keys]

For me it's a PFL to get gain staging "right" given what I know about the players. EG, if I know the drummer checks medium and plays hard towards the end of the night, so I pad him down a little on the gain.

 

Then just a matter of sweeping the parametrics on problem channels to find the right 2 frequencies to cut for problem channels (vocals usually but sometimes guitar)

 

The rest is up to the band to keep consistent.

[wades_keys]

 

My first gig with a band several months ago started with the drummer/leader telling me to play something in Gm with just him and the bass player. Huh? Why not include the other five band members?

 

Because the drums are the hardest to gain stage/PFL, and this is a great way to get vocals, drums and bass gain staged and mixed without the pain of doing a drum-only soundcheck!

 

I usually would do drum-only soundchecks because I'm the bass player, but I'd always use the first song as an opportunity to fine tune the mix for the rest of the set.

 

With Bourbon Country it'll involve checking the crossovers and light use of a 32 band EQ plus 4 different comps for vox, drums and bass. We'll run verb through an aux send on the board probably and just run the comps as channel inserts. I use a Lexicon MX 300 in dual mono configuration to run verb on one side for aux send and dbx compression for the Channel 1 (lead vocal) insert. It's pretty much a "turn on and go" deal, but occasionally I'll change the wet/dry on the verb or tweak the compressor ratio and level if it's too hot.

[ChiroVette]

I think sound checks are invaluable even though they usually take place in mostly empty rooms and the acoustics change. We ALWAYS do a sound check usually about 20-30 minutes before the first set and a lot of our fans love our sound checks because sometimes when we start early we get into these long jams that seem like a mini set. It is sort of a tradition. But more than that, it helps get the monitor mix right and it helps as a starting point for the sound man to get the FOH within a certain level before having to make tweaks for the crowd changing the acoustics.

 

By the way, I categorically disagree with the idea that keyboard players should not use their left hand. I think that is ludicrous and limiting. I understand the mindset behind it, because you don't want the keyboard player stepping on the bass, but if that is happening then the problem is NOT the fact that the keyboard is playing with two hands but that the keyboard player is inexperienced playing with a bass player.

 

I work with a bunch of keyboard players and they are perfectly capable of playing in the same register as the bass player without stepping all over him! LMAO By that logic I should also tell the keyboard player not to play with their right hand because that is the register the vocals and the guitars occupy.

 

I did have one keyboard player years ago who played in a band for twenty years that didn't have a bass player. He was awesome as a player but a nightmare to work with because he was so used to playing "bass" parts with his left hand that he absolutely stepped all over the bass player. But that is an individual case of a keyboard player who couldn't adapt. If you have a good keyboard player who knows his or her role, then trying to get them to use only one hand is just absurd.

[KeysBear]

Sometimes the keyboard player doesn't realize the keyboard is a background instrument, and it's not Jimmy keyboard and the boys. When I play guitar I have a rhythm volume and a lead volume. If I'm not playing lead, I'm sitting in the mix. Our keyboard player was complaining that she couldn't hear herself while the guitar player was playing a solo. When it's time for the keyboard solo, it gets bumped up out in front, but after that it's back sitting in the mix. Also, keyboard players don't need to use their left hand at all. There's a bass player, whose specific job is to play bass notes. I did sound recently for a great 7 piece band: 3 vocals Percussion Keys 2 guitars Bass Drums It was a tight fit and there wasn't a lot of access to the lower keys. I asked him "are you sure this is ok, we can rearrange it if you want" and he said "no worries, I don't use my left hand, that's why we have a bass player." My obvious reply was "I love you man, someone actually gets it" I always get the monitors first, I make sure everyone in the band is happy wirh their monitor mix, even the keyboard player, who should also have their own keyboard amp. I can get FOH dialed in before the first chorus, if I need to.

 

One size doesn't fit all. I play in a Doors Tribute band and keys are essential to the show. I wrote a lengthy reply but it's not worth the trouble to explain my experiences. It is what it is. Don't assume everyone else has never been around the block. Sorry I muddied up the thread.

[StratGuy22]

One size doesn't fit all. I play in a Doors Tribute band and keys are essential to the show. I wrote a lengthy reply but it's not worth the trouble to explain my experiences. It is what it is. Don't assume everyone else has never been around the block. Sorry I muddied up the thread.

 

True. Keys are much much more out in front in a doors tribute band. When we play Roadhouse blues she's definitely front & center.

 

 

[glepko]

OT: Had a band on my house stage Saturday night with a genuine B3/Leslie. Let me just say, it wasn't missing in the mix - actually, nothing was missing in the mix

 

On topic: Had a longer than I prefer 'soundcheck' due to the temp console we're using being slightly inadequate and SLOW navigating for dialing in monitor mixes and dynamics at FOH simultaneously. Soundcheck is just that - a quick check to rough in a mix and locate any troubles and correct individually. If your engineer is setting and forgetting as the evening progresses you might consider hiring someone new.

[wades_keys]

 

If your engineer is setting and forgetting as the evening progresses you might consider hiring someone new.

 

Unless he's playing in the band too.

 

The best bands I've heard playing local gigs all use set it and forget it sound with no separate engineers.

 

Inconsistent bands definitely benefit from a fader rider. Large venues and such are obviously a different story but often in those places you have "house sound" anyway.

 

I look at it this way: a lot of that stuff in the rack is set it and forget it. Crossover? Check. Compressors? Check.

 

So the only thing left really is gain and EQ, right? And consistent levels. PFL checks put all the levels on the meter plain as day, so that takes care of that. What's left? Feedback? A parametric sweep and dual frequency notch will kill that. Just sayin....typical local band sound ain't all that hard or shouldn't be, to deal with.