Don't Like Some of My Bands Original Music

[Outkaster]

I am not sure how to go about this because things have been tough lately. We are a mix of originals and covers.

 

My girl singer had brought a new song up on the way to practice. I told her “don’t worry if it is not perfect” so when she played the video of the song she recorded while sitting at the piano at practice….. I knew where she was going with it. Well I wanted to play it because I felt like I knew exactly what to do with it so I pushed it in front of everything else we had to do last Saturday at practice. To give you some back ground she and my co-manager write the band’s original songs. She stayed behind I didn’t realize she would record a full demo in logic with him. This is not what I expected and I guess I didn’t realize that is what she was going to do. It was fun to do that at practice, it had been awhile since anything like that happened where we finished two songs almost in a practice that two members wrote. We started messing with it at practice first and it was different. I got an email that night with a finished song. Lately I feel like I have no say in the matter. In the past I kind of let them do things on their own and then tweaked it to forward with the other members. It’s the same with my other keyboard player’s original song she brought in that day, I know what to do with it also because I understand what she is trying to do. The music means more to me than anything…. that is part of the reason I started the band. I just don’t feel like I am not adding anything. These two have written some great stuff and the crowd likes them but other stuff has been marginal and doesn’t go over well. Honestly I just don’t like a lot of it.

 

I guess I am feeling like a business manager at this point because all I do is put out fires, send a few e-mails and put up events on Facebook, Reverbnation, and do stuff in g-mail. Most of all I deal with complaints and bitching. I realize that is part of the position and role I took on.For cover tunes I suggested music and it gets shot down, I don’t have anything to do with the creative process at all. I knew what to do the bands original tunes when I heard them the first time, which is where my talent lies. Those are songs that both the singer and my co-manager created and they set the bar for our music and sound….I just had to smooth out some of the rough edges. I am trying to figure out how to utilize myself musically now. It’s a tough situation and I am thinking of resigning at the end of the summer…..we have some great gigs coming up other bands would kill for but I don’t want to run the band and not have a say in something I created.

 

I know no one is being Malicious or anything it’s just how I feel now and I started the band from the ground up in September of 2011.

 

 

[Outkaster]

Hmmm no one?

[daddymack]

Not sure what you are expecting.

 

If you as the band leader feel as if the rest of the band does not agree with you on things...taking your ball and going home is one way to deal with it, and I have done that once. But communication is the key.

Another thing...you say you 'know' where the song is going...but do you really? Your vision and the vision of the songwriter may be at odds.

I've dealt with this issue as well. Although I was correct, and the songwriter heard it a totally different way, and insisted on producing the song herself. Fine. It was..awful. At that point I advised her we would not be using it. Look, if a song works, it works, if it doesn't, fix it or dump it. I offered to 'fix' it, which changed the entire feel of the music, but I felt [as did other band members] that it served the lyrics and melody much better. But no...within a year, she left the band to go solo. in no small part due to the fact that we only used one song that she co-wrote [with me]. None of her originals made the cut based on her presentation. But you have to step up and say something.

 

You say you have a 'co-manager'...so delegate the things you don't like dealing with to that person...and start writing your own material.

[New Trail]

Do you play in the band, too, or are you just a co-manager?

[senorblues]

Who's the music director? Who, if anyone, has taken music theory courses?

I realize there are a lot of hit records out there released by bands where it's clear that no one does, but if one person in the band understands theory and they have to stand by and watch music being composed without the benefit of basic theory, there's going to be a problem.

 

 

[Outkaster]

Yes I am classically trained and started taking lessons again after 21 years. I am the music director and am in the band so it gets a little messy. I started the band with a guy off craigslist. He writes most of the material with the singer and is co-manager. I wasn't expecting really anything but wondered if you all had been in the same position.

[senorblues]

The last band I was in in Maryland, everyone else had more training and experience than I did. The previous two bands, it was the reverse. The question always is, do you (or they) soak up new information, or do you stand your ground on what you know (or don't know.) I suspect we've all experienced plenty of both.

 

Nearly all of my experience is with cover bands. What little I know about originals is that song writers don't like their songs messed with unless you've agreed out front that song writing will be a collaborative effort. I wonder how Fagan/Becker, Lennon/McCartney, et al, got along.

[daddymack]

Lennon/McCartney rarely actually collaborated on songs.

[AJ6stringsting]

Being a band is like being married, sometimes you have to be a psychologist, therapist, referee or even worse, a parent.

If it's your band, put your foot down. But remember , how you say it, is just as important as what you have to say. If egoes are big, or if you're dealing with poster children of low self esteem, you better have good instinct and timing.

Because bring up something at the wrong time could bring bad results. I hope you all the best and like when playing music, "play it by ear".

[Outkaster]

Yeah I will have to but I still need them to trust my instincts. 90% of the time I am right about this stuff but I will tread carefully.

[Vito Corleone]

Every band is going to have their own way of writing material. Like anything else in the band, either the formula works for you or it doesn't.

 

I would say that in the instance in the OP, your mistake was to leave and allow others to continue working on the song in your absence. Even if you didn't know what they were going to do, you almost have to expect that anytime you leave a couple of band members alone, they are going to work on stuff and it will be changed. Especially if they are the bands core songwriters.

 

Coming back after the fact and bitching that they made changes really isn't going to work.

 

Communication is the key. Maybe it's time for a sitdown and have a discussion about how songs should be submitted and finished. If everyone has the same goal of doing whatever it takes to write and arrange and perform the best songs possible, then you should all be able to reach a working agreement. If it's more about "my/our songs are my/our songs and I don't want anyone messing with them" then that is what that is and you'll have to deal with that.

[Etienne Rambert]

You listed several reasons to quit and only one to stay. Your band has great gigs in the future.

 

Who has the money anyway? Who has connections? Who has the face of the band, the charisma? You or someone else? Nobody?

 

If no one but you has any money, talent, training, connections or charisma - no sweat for you to leave. At any rate, be happy your ideas are rejected. The alternative might be worse. They could steal your ideas and you get zero credit.

 

Some **** may need to be ingested now just so you can breathe clear one day in the future -- if you decide the band is worth your continuing effort that is.

[Outkaster]

I have some money but so does one of the songwriters. He runs a dept at a local university. I still have most of the connections, and the talent to juggle business though. Could some of them do that? Probably but not as well as I can or else they would be. See the problem becomes that if any constructive criticism comes their way it automatically becomes personal. That's his problem not mine..I feel like saying "don't ask the question if you are not prepared to be able to hear the answer"....happens all the time. It happened two days ago as mixes of our first CD came out and I didn't think some of it was that well done. He didn't like that but I have news for them. Not everyone in the band is going to like your original tunes and they have that right. They haven't been mastered so there is time to rectify some of them so we talked and it's cool. No I am not happy my ideas get rejected but I do realize it is their song.

[daddymack]

post the unmastered tracks and set up a poll here...and we can vote on the songs and comment....

[Outkaster]

It's not worth it sometimes. They were dub plates. The other day he came around when a few of us told him he was missing the point. Some of the other tunes, 2 of them in fact I didn't think were strong. I just have to learn to pick my battles.

[ski219]

Sounds like it's time for a band meeting.

 

Last original band i was in was really good, but also fairly contentious. I moved on because the focus became gigging and prepping for gigs. I had joined as a creative outlet and that was falling by the wayside. Band broke in 2 a few weeks after I left and are now 2 original bands still recording and gigging 4 years later.

 

I like to treat originals the same as covers in that if they are not going over at gigs they fall off the set list.

[benbusack]

I think sometimes the best way to "prove" that something won't work is to learn the song as a band and let it fail in practice. If a song isn't exciting the band, it should be obvious and then your suggestions become a solution to salvaging an idea, rather than as an attack on somebody's baby. This can be an excruciating process, however, since you have to hash out crap ideas until they are unequivocally nonviable. And it's even harder when a writer has what they think is a clear idea of their vision, without room for input from other members. It also relies on people being open enough to hearing when something isn't working, a virtual impossibility for some writers. Maybe you can establish the idea that the band is interpreting original music (as you would a cover) and that interpretation doesn't erase their vision but it does help people buy in to a song as they add their voice to it. Good luck, sounds like a tough situation.

[daddymack]

The problem here is time wasted on material that won't see the light of day. If writers can't be objective about their material, they will spew tons of junk. There should be an agreement that the entire band needs to be on board with a song and the arrangement, before countless hours are spent tweaking and finalizing, only to dump the song.

[Outkaster]

Well we are having a meeting Sept 30th as it turns out but it will be about set lists, gigs and choice of music. Interestingly enough the same guitarist wrote a song two weeks ago and wants the girl singer in the band to sing it. She text yesterday and said it sounded ridiculous. I will let them hash it out, the more I get in between I end up being the asshole. I have learned that if a singer doesn’t really like a song they won’t deliver it well on stage if they are very adverse to it. This is the kind of stuff I will bring up in the meeting. I mean in the overarching aspect the band is doing aright. It’s just we are at a point now where our following is great and we get some of the best gigs around so we have to kind of keep up at a certain level. The pressure is great and it’s hard when people’s personal lives are very busy. Some musicians try to hold bands hostage and I don’t want that to happen here…I just want the two these songwriters to bend a little bit. One of you had a good idea and let it fail and practice. daddymack you had a good idea about them “being Objective” about their music. In two instances I told them “take a bridge out of this song” Or I told the songwriter “add a bridge hear” Both times they did it begrudgingly but it worked.