"We'll see if you're a good fit . . . ."

[senorblues]

That's the response I often get when I ask the person who books a room to listen to sample audio clips. How do they know what's "a good fit"? Does your band pretty much look and sound like other acts in rotation? If you're different, how did you convince the venues that that would be a benefit to them?

[GoldJim]

Are you talking in person or via email? Before you look at entering venues, look to see what kinds of bands they are already hiring. Are you like those groups? If not, it's an uphill battle for you. Most venues aren't out to enlighten their crowds musically, they just want to sell tickets, door, drinks, food, or all of the above. You need to show them it's in their best interest to bring you in. Do you have a following? If so, can you show them in some way? These days, a few hundred people following the band page on FB can send a message. A YouTube channel that's blowing up with views can't hurt. Did you play other clubs? Will those club owners or booking agents back you?

 

You might look into a booking agent of your own. They take a percentage, but they'll do the legwork for you. Do you have a press pack? Doesn't need to be physical these days (though it doesn't hurt). Band photos, song lists, Soundcloud and YouTube links, FB page, etc. Everything you have should be in there. That's your resume. If you don't have live footage, get someone to video some open mics or gigs.

[Shaster]

It's a standard phrase meaning, don't call us we'll call you. Of course they really do want to see if you are a good fit, but venue operators typically don't want to give you hope, until they've ascertained that you can be of benefit to them.

 

A good fit basically means that you won't rock the boat. If it's a Blues bar, then a Heavy Metal act is not a good fit. If it's a three piece Rock band room, then a Jazz sextet is not a good fit. If you are doing something that is off the beaten path but has worked in the past, then you need to reference that. Proof of concept is what you need. So much like GoldJim mentioned above, videos of you doing well in a room (of similar type), YouTube views, testimonials, a solid gig calendar and so on, go a long way.

 

If you've got none of that, then you are going to have to get creative. Perhaps a one time introductory price on an off night. Perhaps a low paying house gig that you use to amass some positive videos and other promo. I hate to suggest it, but maybe even some benefit gigs where you can shoot some promo. IMHO benefit gigs are useless for exposure, but they can be useful for gathering promo.

 

Finally as also suggested, a booking agent. You will still need good promo to get one, and frankly agents just point their clients in the direction of their artist's promo. Then the client picks from that. However, here's the advantage with a newcomer using an agent. Several times a week or month, they get stuck with a date they need to fill quickly. If they have exhausted all their go to bands, then they start calling the newbies. That's how I got my current agent fifteen years ago. He was stuck for a solo act, and called me in desperation. I bailed out of a gig I already had and took his gig. He happened to be in attendance, liked what he saw and the rest is poverty, er I mean history! He's booked my band and me as a solo since that time.

[senorblues]

Startup. Only content I have to show anyone is audio and video of my solo act and a few rehearsal audio clips. You'd think they could extrapolate, although not every song would be suitable for rooms that hire bands. Yes, we're stretching the repertoire beyond what other bands play, but frankly it has more to do with our versatility and their reliance on the tired old standards we all rely on for a short notice pick up band. And while some of these groups have some talents, more than a few are pretty weak, bordering on atrocious, relying on their tenure. If you've been here for generations, that seems to be the most important consideration. In a part of the state that relies on tourism, at least in season, you'd think quality would help their bottom line. More than a few venues have been sold recently or given up on music, presumably because what they were bringing in didn't help their bottom line.

[GoldJim]

senorblues, you might give a few episodes of the GuitarWank podcast a listen. Two of today's jazz greats sit with a Hollywood studio engineer and discuss the music industry each week. They talk a lot about the state of jazz and how everyone is still gigging and recording the same old "standards", even though there is so much incredible music that's been recorded. Something you need to remember comes first is that the club hires people who will not scare away customers and will provide a musical environment that promotes spending $$ and returning to their club. Venues in areas of high tourism might bring you in on an off night or off season to see if you "fit". Their job is not to promote you, but to make $$. This reality doesn't hit a lot of bands, and some very talented people go unheard.

 

You should also consider the audience. Just because you think that "Mustang Sally", "Brown Eyed Girl", and "Save a Horse, Ride a Cowboy" are tired crap doesn't mean the average person doesn't still want to hear them. See my post about the band with crappy tone. The guitarist struggled with his sound and had a D grade rig, yet the people loved him. Do they get invited back to play a lot? Yes, they do. Do they play the same tired songs every time? Yes. Do people spend money and whoop it up while the band is there? Yes. Club is happy, booking agent is happy.

 

Talent does not equal hired. Songs that everyone else isn't doing does not mean that you are the right band.As musicians, we would like to believe that people are tired of the same old song. But in reality, you're just background music or dance stuff. You are the equivalent of mashed potatoes - comfort food.

 

Lastly, it's not up to the booking agent to assume that you sound like X solo, so in a band you'll sound like Y. That's for your band to prove. How many incredible quarterbacks can't get into the play offs because of their crappy offensive line? Even as a musician with decades of gigging experience, I wouldn't make any assumptions of what a band sounds like just because of an individual player.

[Shaster]

When I do a solo thing, I will definitely go off book here and there, but I will bring it back with some popular song that everyone knows and loves. When I'm playing in a band, I tend to do the stuff that people like and can dance to.

 

Last night I was a sideman in a trio. We were in this little restaurant where we could have played almost anything, but the leader kept calling things like Don't Stop, Old Time Rock 'n Roll, and yes even Mustang Sally. The crowd ate it up (even if I didn't) and the owner told us it was the best night they had in a very long time. Now, when I feel unclean after a night like that, I can just go down to a jazz or maybe blues jam and redeem myself. But there's a time and a place for everything, and unfortunately for us musos, there always seems to be a time for Brown Eyed Girl.

 

I know there is quality music out there, but depending on the venue, one person's quality is another person's Mustang Sally.

[senorblues]

I can think of a couple of sources for songs that would go over well. One would be the set list from the band that played there last week. Another would be a list of requests. Another would be the songs that your bandmates all know.

 

I think that's a closed loop. For the most part, they're songs that everyone in the band can play, meaning not too challenging for any one instrument to cover. It also pretty much limits you to guitar band songs. What percent of the bar bands have a keyboard front man? I can think of a couple back in DC and they were successful without playing Brown Eyed Girl. They had a reputation; people knew what they played well and wanted them to play their songs.

 

But what if you don't have that kind of reputation . . . yet? From my experience, there are a lot of songs that most people of various ages like that were major hits that most bands don't cover, and all you have to do to find them is refer to the RS 500 Greatest Hits list. Check it out.

[senorblues]

I've allowed myself to get off the subject. I may not have been as clear as thought I was, but the issue here is how to break into a closed market. It never occurred to me that a venue would only be interested in considering local bands they knew, but that's what I'm finding. It has nothing to do with repertoire if they aren't interested in finding out anything about you. They've already got their regular rotation. End of story.

[GoldJim]

I've allowed myself to get off the subject. I may not have been as clear as thought I was' date=' but the issue here is how to break into a closed market. It never occurred to me that a venue would only be interested in considering local bands they knew, but that's what I'm finding. It has nothing to do with repertoire if they aren't interested in finding out anything about you. They've already got their regular rotation. End of story.[/quote']

 

OK, That makes sense, and I know what you mean. The club owner/booking agent know they have a steady stream of music and they know the service they will get with bands W, X, Y, and Z. They can rotate them out once every 4 weeks, and the crowds won't be bored. Heck, if the band is good enough and the crowds rotate often enough, they only need one or two bands! I knew a group in the Saratoga, NY area who would rent a venue (yes, the BAND rented the venue!) and they played there during horse racing season. This band played for as much as $10k per night, and that was almost 20 years ago. When a place asked why they would pay so much for this band, the owner said, "Because I know exactly what I will get for my $$, and they sell us out every year."

 

So how do you break that? Well, you go to as many places as you can and you offer to play on off nights or open mics. You ask if they will put you on the backup list, so your band can play if one of the regulars has a night they can't make it. It means that you have to be ready on short notice, but if you want to break the place, you can't be picky. I remember once, I got called @ 6 PM. "Can your band play nine to one tonight?" I'll get right back to you. We played the gig and we became one of their regulars. Once they hired us and liked us, word got out, and the next thing we knew, we were playing gigs for twice the money in Lake George, Saratoga, and other resort towns.

 

(1) Be persistent without being a pain in the rear. Don't be afraid to follow up to see if there's an opening or off night you can slide into. You need to prove your worth.

 

(2) Always speak positively of other bands, even if you think their set list stinks on ice. See if you can do an opener for them. Some bands would love for another band to take a set or even 5 songs. Our band happened to be out seeing a friend's band. They asked us to come in for a couple songs, and we rocked the place for 3, the last of which, the other guys joined us. Booked to play there less than a month later. I even got to play a bass that had belonged to John Myung of Dream Theater.

 

(3) Be professional. Don't get hung up on how the other guy or gal gets away with stuff. You represent your band. As I stated before, a press packet, music, Facebook page, and business cards will go a long way with impressing people. They don't care if you can play the guitar exactly like SRV, they only care that you will be someone who makes them $$.

 

Good luck!

[senorblues]

I went to school in upstate NY. Mostly parties, but also clubs in Lake Placid, Saranac Lake, and Watertown. After I graduated, I did the east coast supper club circuit and the Albany, Syracuse, Rochester, Buffalo rooms were the best.

 

Those gigs are long gone . . . .

 

What I'm looking at now are small, low paying venues, unless you can break into the private party circuit.

 

Lots of venues would like you to do the open mic thing. A) It's not practical for keyboard players - you can't just sit in. B) Open mics work well for venues because it's free (almost) entertainment provided by hobby players. Most guys who used to play full time take a dim view of contributing to their own demise.

[GoldJim]

I only left the Albany area in February of last year. The gigs were still there. We had a booking agent, and she made many of our contacts in the country band I was in. For the rock act, we had a guy who did all the leg work. He was very good, and we had a lot gigs. Nearly every weekend, some weekends, two. My friends still play up there, and one of the booking agents I am still in contact with books the casinos, etc. We've talked about this issue a lot in the past. The country act that formed from many of the players I was with plays every weekend to packed houses. They took over the $10k gig I referred to earlier. How did their lead singer get her start? Her agent got her and a couple other young ladies in with the country band I was in to play one gig - The annual county fair. People loved them, and we helped launch her. There was no animosity, no "our band is better than yours" stuff. Our band retired and her band got bigger. I'd moved on to a rock act or I would have been playing with them. It's how it goes. If I didn't have to move for my day job, I'd still be playing up there; but I have kids and commitments that keep me playing guitar by night and IT work by day.

 

Never had a problem with keys at open mics, and the guy who played keys and horns had a small Roland amp he would bring in. We knew we were there to play as a band and we always explained it might take a few minutes to set up. The folks were always accommodating. Heck, in some of these places, you can either plug directly in to their PA or use a small battery operated amp. Not all places do that. You might need to offer yourselves for a Wed or Thurs gig.

 

It might take weeks, it might take months. I just moved to VA and started with a band a few months ago. With the holidays and family stuff, we've had a couple months to hone our craft. We're into the studio this weekend to cut a 5 song demo. Already did a couple of open mics and the requests have been coming. After almost 20 years playing in Upstate NY and 20 years down here before, I'm starting over again. All these things I tell you, they are tried and true. I've never taken more than a few months to get a band from zero to gigs.

 

I'm not sure what town you're in or what musical niche you're looking to fill. I do know that persistence and patience will help you. You play keys, and that's rare in this world of guitarists, bassists, drummers, and karaoke kings and queens. You might have to give in and play what is considered standard for a while, then slowly morph into something that you want to become. Lady Gaga certainly didn't start out wearing meat and dressing like a space cowgirl.

[senorblues]

I live in a town of 2,000. The nearest city is an hour away. Went to a well-known club there recently and heard some great music. They played for tips.

[GoldJim]

I live in a town of 2' date='000. The nearest city is an hour away. Went to a well-known club there recently and heard some great music. They played for tips.[/quote']

 

Not sure where that is. I grew up on a farm in Putnam Station, NY. That's just south of Ticonderoga sandwiched between Lake George and Lake Champlain. It was almost 2 hours to Albany. I know what you mean. Our phone book included 7 towns and had less white pages than instructions. (Remember phone books? LOL)

 

Anyway, in a town that size, you do have a good old boy network that will work against you if you're an 'outsider' or a 'townie'. Does your town only explode during tourist season? Sounds like some of the towns up the coast of RI, MA, and ME. There are towns like that in VA, NC and SC as well. I don't know the west coast well enough to be familiar. Ticonderoga was like that. The only good gigs were an hour away in Lake George, Bolton Landing, etc in the summer. We played for peanuts in the winter, besides, the roads were awful and unpredictable.

 

I can't speak to the particular situation where you heard great music for tips, but that does happen. Especially out of season for tourist towns. Gotta keep up your chops and keep your name out there. I remember seeing the once lead singer for Dr Hook singing for tips in Nashville. No one is immune.

 

Good luck. Can't give you better advice than determination, dedication, and professionalism. No one is going to knock your door down and beg you to play, no matter how good your music is until you're a bigger business than they are. Remember Stevie Ray Vaughn, the guy who got booed one year at a festival and praised the next year at the same festival? Remember when Bob Dylan was booed for playing an electric guitar? OK, Dylan is a bad example, because his singing is like a cat being tortured, but the point is that being a great musician doesn't get always get you a pass with audiences or venues. Perseverance is the only way you will prevail.

 

Rock on.

[Vito Corleone]

One point to add about the "tired" songs. Especially if you're working in a tourist area---most of these people don't hear a band play these songs but once every couple of years.

 

My wife runs out to the dance floor every time she hears a band play "Mustang Sally". I give her a hard time about it, but maybe if I took her out to see a live band more than the once a year we are on vacation somewhere, she'd be as tired of it as I am.

[senorblues]

I think the songs most bands play is a subset of songs that most people recognize and would enjoy hearing. Check out the RS500 list.

 

The other issue - and this is the one that frustrates us the most - is that many people can't dance unless they know the lyrics. Strange, no? One of the few benefits of playing the small pub/restaurant circuit is that they aren't trying to be primarily dance venues. Often as not, there's no dance floor.

[Vito Corleone]

Can't dance unless they know the lyrics? I never thought of it that way, but I suppose you're right. People like songs they can sing along with. One of the reasons "Sally" is so venerable is the call-and-response bit.

 

Having said that, it's a song we rarely play because we are all so tired of it. (We only pull it out for gigs where we know we will need more 60s material than we usually do). Instead we do other songs that fill the same purpose within the set that are just as tired but that, for whatever reasons, we all enjoy playing more.

 

You gotta pick your poisons.

 

As far as that Top 500 list goes, those are all familiar classics that I'm sure would all work for various bands in various situations, but you still have to do the work of putting together the right set for your band/audience/venue. I didn't look through the entire list but I will guess that most of our setlist didn't make the Top 500 and most of the Top 500 would not work for us.

 

As far as not having a dance floor being a "benefit" goes? Well, the nice thing about being a dance band is it gives an easy reference point for defining the setlist and judging audience response. But not having one doesn't absolve the band's responsibility to connect with the audience just as strongly. Too many bands, IMO, use the excuse of not having to worry about people dancing to just play only what they want and become just background music. And once you're just background music, then it makes more sense for the venue to hire a solo act or just play Pandora.

 

And then the musicians all sit around wondering how we got to this place where live music isn't valued any longer.

[GoldJim]

People will still bounce around in their seats and the hardcore gals will dance where they stand, they don't need a 'floor'. People want to hear what makes them feel comfortable. If you have the attitude that you're up there to entertain yourself or somehow convince people that their taste in music is substandard, then you're not the person getting asked to come back.

 

I understand that you're feeling frustrated, but if you want to be hired to play somewhere for people, your job is to keep asses in the seats, feet on the dance floor (if there is one), and drinks/food being sold. It's that simple.

 

[uSER=7752]guido61[/uSER] I can see why they keep calling your band back. Nice mashups. Always helps to have a female lead singer, and you've got 2! Can we borrow one? LOL

[senorblues]

I'd be curious to know why you wouldn't expect most of the RS500 list to work for you. The band's ability to cover the song, or the a particular audience's inability to relate to them?

 

I'm not saying my current or past bands can play anything on the list. I am saying that the standards I would pick would likely be different from what another band would pick. . . . vocal style, instrumentation, rhythmic roots . . . any number of things. Then there's your ability to read the crowd and have enough variety in your repertoire to be able to change direction as the night wears on.

 

I will say that the songs I've played solo that got a clear positive response often surprised me.

[Vito Corleone]

I don't expect most of it to work for me, because my band is specifically a dance/party band. Bob Dylan songs, for example, aren't going to work for us, but they might very well work for some other band in some other situation. You're exactly right that it's about picking the right songs for the band and the audience you intend to play for.

 

Such lists are great for finding ideas for songs that would work for you that maybe you didn't think would. But you still have to know what works for your act and doesn't.

 

It's not so much about inability to play them or the audience being unable to relate to them, it's just that something like "Like A Rolling Stone" would be the wrong song for the gigs we play, even if it DOES have a 100% recognizability factor with the audience.

 

When I'm starting up a new band, I really look at what sort of market niche we want to try to fill. What kind of bands are working, what kind of venues are hiring, and can I put together a band to fit that niche? You can't make a band be something its not, but you DO need to try to fit it to the marketplace as best you can. I've walked away from startup bands that had great players but that I knew there was simply nothing marketable I could do with that particular group or lineup. I've never been one for just endless rehearsals in the basement. I want to gig. But that's just me.

 

It's not rocket science, but I am constantly amazed at how many musicians just try to throw a band together with a songlist of their personal favorites and then head out into the market and try to find gigs. That was something do-able 30-40 years ago when live music was much more of a viable product, but these days you really have to have a purpose and a game plan otherwise you're just going to waste a lot of time spending years while the marketplace finally molds your band back to where you should have been in the first place. And who among us has years anymore?

 

As far as my current band goes? Well, we've been at this a long time now and really have it all down to a formula. I choose songs based on a combination of A) how well will the audience like this song B) how well can the girls sing it C) how well can the band play it.

 

Our best numbers are the ones that we can knock out of the part on all three levels. But if any one of the three elements is outstanding, the song is still probably going to work. But hopefully there are enough "all three" songs out there that we can cobble together 3 hours of music.

 

Beyond that---and this is specific to a lot of the types of gigs we play but is a good general principle as well---is that our setlist is made up of what I call 'moments' and 'slots'. Most of the songs are there, and in that specific spot, to achieve a specific purpose. So if one song gets tired and we move it out of the set, it will most likely be replaced by another song that serves the same purpose. "Mustang Sally" is a great song because it works well with both young and old people, is easily recognizable from the first measure forward, is highly danceable, and has the call-and-response choruses. A band doesn't want to play that song anymore? Fine. But I would strongly advise to replace it with another song that does all those same things. Or, at the very least, generates a similar audience response.

 

 

 

 

[Shaster]

Starting with the songs... The other night I was about to do Dock of The Bay and realized the staff might groan at that one, so I said "I'm going to do a tune that everyone has heard before, especially the staff, who probably hear it every night. But you know, just because the bar sold Scotch yesterday, doesn't mean they can't sell Scotch today". I heard one of the waiters laugh at the truth of this and of the double standards - musicians are supposed to keep it fresh, but the bar just keeps selling the same old booze, chicken wings, yam fires and such, day in and day out.

 

Gigs... I have seen people in small towns be the big fish in a small pond. I would think that being the go to guy might be achievable if you've got the right stuff.

 

On a more general note, I feel that's there is no use lamenting the fact that folks like the tried and true. They just do, no big deal. Sometimes I play classical guitar at home (badly) just to do something different. Sometimes I take a low paying jazz gig with very good players just to feel good about music again. Last Sunday I did a jazz vespers gig with a great band - way too much work, but very rewarding. Doing those things allows me to play BEG and Stand By Me without whining and complaining.

 

Speaking of Jazz Vespers, do any of your local churches do that? If not you might suggest it. Here in Vancouver, off the top of my head, I can name four churches that do it every Sunday, or every other Sunday. I am sure there are many more doing it here and there.

 

Then there's retirement homes. milestone birthday parties, labour rallys, backyard BBQ's, company Xmas parties, wedding receptions, farmers markets, celebration of life ceremonies, summer festivals, winter festivals, Pride parades, and so on. Just in the last few years, I have done all of those gigs, with bands, duos and as a solo. So remember, restaurants and clubs are not the only places to play.

[senorblues]

I don't mind tried and true, but as a keyboard player, it's silly to pick guitar band standards. No? Anyway, the issue, as I mentioned earlier isn't about quality of product, regardless of how you measure it. It's about venues supporting their friends and neighbors who play in bands. Some of them are pretty good; more than a few are awful, and no they don't draw. Seems like biting off your nose to spite your face. I would assume that applies to other public and private venues, but I was hoping to get tight playing local bars before playing at more concert style venues. At least that's the way we used to do it.

 

I'm still working on it.

[Outkaster]

That's cool I am in Albany for work and have attended a jam up in Glen Falls from a guy that I sold a Leslie to last year. I don't too much about the seen but we do well in Rochester, Buffalo and the Finger Lakes.