Members Kramerguy Posted May 17, 2016 Members Share Posted May 17, 2016 Hey guys,Forwarning- I'm not looking for validation on this, just posting about something that happened, and how I introspected so little before making a decision. I've been talking with a guy from a CL ad I've posted. It's been very occasional for a few months, certainly not anything definite. I have been looking to start a few different tribute bands and am always looking for the perfect fits for various projects. This guy is a singer who by his statements had some potential for one of the projects. Back to him in a minute- I do a Friday night open jam most Friday nights, it's a very cool studio in someone's home. We drink, we chat, we jam, it's relaxed and about as much musical fun and satisfaction I've had ever. I've met several people in this open jam who would fit into these side projects, and they've expressed interest as well. I had finally found a drummer and bassist for one in particular, and all we needed was a singer. It was never intended to be a serious gigging band as much as an outlet to play off-the-beaten-path music we built our chops on and not necessarily what bars expect you to play. Back to this guy now. Because of availability, we were never able to get all the parts in this one together until last Friday night. Everyone was going to be at the open jam. I invited this singer (as it's invite only) about a week and a half before. We agree to meet there, I gave him the address, offered to meet up before and have him follow me in, etc.. did everything I could to be friendly and accommodating. He seemed really into the idea and even stated that he was dying to be around other musicians and have some relaxed jamming, as well as play some of the material we discussed (he also played guitar). He asked me to text him when I left home to go there, which I did. He replies great, seeya there, etc. So I get there a little early, start setting up, chat with my friend who owns the place, the usual. The singer texts me: "hey man, I'm going to have to do a different Friday night, I'm just not feeling it tonight". wtf? Now this is where I just lost it mentally. In a fraction of a moment, I saw all the guys who ever bailed on a first meet, the auditions, the excuses. Not one of them EVER panned out. Someone who flakes out on the first impression has never once, regardless that I always gave people second, and sometimes third, chances. Most of them never showed later, and the few who did turned out to be just about the worst musicians (not bad players, but bad bandmates). So, within that fraction of a moment, I knew this guy was never going to be able to redeem himself. I've seen too much, no need to waste my time or effort, or energy. I text him back "Not what I expected"Him: "What the hell does that mean?"Me: "calling out at the last minute is just shi**y, didn't expect that from you based on our emails over the months, not going to worry over it, take care."Him: "you said this was a no-pressure jam?"Me: " (sigh) it is, but saying you will show, then bailing at the last minute is something I've seen happen for years, it's just not cool, the JAM is no-pressure, showing up when you sign up is something else entirely, and really what's done is done and not worth debating"Him: "You know what dude? You can take your attitude and F right off, I've had the day from hell and I'm not gonna be lambasted for trying to do the right thing. Later" Me: Menu, block caller. So that's that. I introspected about it during a break later that night. I realize, I just don't have the patience I once had for these kinds of people. First impressions are almost always correct ones when it comes to things like this. I give people in other areas of life more chances, but I have zero tolerance for flaky musicians anymore. I imagine I will be frowned upon for being so judgmental, but so be it. Feel free to opinioniate either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted May 17, 2016 Members Share Posted May 17, 2016 Yep, easy call Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted May 17, 2016 Members Share Posted May 17, 2016 I'd go either way depending on which foot the shoe was on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted May 17, 2016 Members Share Posted May 17, 2016 Yeah, I agree that it was 99.9% the right call in terms of knowing the guy was going to be a flake. I've had the exact same experience that if they can't even show up to the first rehearsal/audition, it never goes well giving them the 2nd chance. The only I would have done different in hindsight is not 'fire him' on the spot via text like that and cause any additional animosity. I would have just told him later that it wasn't feeling right, or that I had found someone else in the meantime, or whatever. Because he obviously feels justified not showing up in HIS mind. HE certainly doesn't consider himself a flake and that will never change. So I'd rather just not work with those people rather than try to explain to them why they are not the right fit for working with me. But if nothing else comes with age it's experience and you're right about first impressions. And I no longer have the tolerance for such flakes either. And now I have to go yell at one of my singers for being an hour late to rehearsal.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ski219 Posted May 17, 2016 Members Share Posted May 17, 2016 I see it like this: If they guy just thought it was a jam - no big deal and you are overreacting. If it was understood that this might be the start of a new project and the jam was a low key way to feel a group of chosen players out then yes the guy is a flake and you were right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members senorblues Posted May 17, 2016 Members Share Posted May 17, 2016 What's his gigging experience? In detail. A pro would never do that. Problem is that the vast majority of bands out there aren't "pro", meaning that isn't the gig that pays the bills. If it's a hobby, then the level of commitment just isn't the same. I briefly considered putting together a trio as a side gig to my solo. It's easy to forget that the venues don't treat you as a pro either, so playing for fun - nonprofit - has become the norm. I just emailed the venue back after getting more details about ticket sales and minimum guarantees. I'm too old for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted May 17, 2016 Members Share Posted May 17, 2016 On further thought, I had this happen once and it was sorta my fault for not being clear that it was an audition and not just a jam. I too was trying not to stress out the guy and was overly casual about it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members senorblues Posted May 17, 2016 Members Share Posted May 17, 2016 "I'm not feelin' it tonight" is about the biggest red flag I've ever heard. He got cold feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted May 18, 2016 Author Members Share Posted May 18, 2016 I see it like this: If they guy just thought it was a jam - no big deal and you are overreacting. If it was understood that this might be the start of a new project and the jam was a low key way to feel a group of chosen players out then yes the guy is a flake and you were right. That's about the meat of it- it was a low key way to feel a group of people out, and the singer did know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted May 18, 2016 Author Members Share Posted May 18, 2016 "I'm not feelin' it tonight" is about the biggest red flag I've ever heard. He got cold feet. Seriously.. could you imagine working out a set list for a couple months, rehearsals, and then getting to the first gig and getting that text? I don't doubt I made the right choice, and this thread wasn't about me looking for that assurance, but more about how quickly I came to that conclusion.. I surprised myself even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted May 18, 2016 Author Members Share Posted May 18, 2016 On further thought, I had this happen once and it was sorta my fault for not being clear that it was an audition and not just a jam. I too was trying not to stress out the guy and was overly casual about it . But still- not just musicians- you make plans with anyone to do anything, no matter how casual.. Is there no validity on the expectation of them to show, especially when it's the first time you have those plans together? I think that even outside of music, no matter what the occasion was, that I would have wrote them off as a flake and not bothered with a second chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted May 18, 2016 Members Share Posted May 18, 2016 But still- not just musicians- you make plans with anyone to do anything, no matter how casual.. Is there no validity on the expectation of them to show, especially when it's the first time you have those plans together? I think that even outside of music, no matter what the occasion was, that I would have wrote them off as a flake and not bothered with a second chance. One of the reasons I married my wife is because I think she was the first girl I ever dated who was ready to go to events on time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kramerguy Posted May 18, 2016 Author Members Share Posted May 18, 2016 One of the reasons I married my wife is because I think she was the first girl I ever dated who was ready to go to events on time. LOL !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jeff42 Posted May 23, 2016 Members Share Posted May 23, 2016 I think you made the right call. Find someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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