Members senorblues Posted December 20, 2015 Members Share Posted December 20, 2015 I know this isn't exactly a new topic, but most of the discussions I recall focus on club managers who we think are clueless about how to attract and keep a clientele with suitable music being a key ingredient. Can anyone direct me to good articles written from the point of view of venues who've been successful? Venues come in all shapes and sizes, of course. I'm interested in a small town model that may have three or four other bars and/or restaurants offering music on Saturday night, with a few attempting to offer something during the week as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 21, 2015 Members Share Posted December 21, 2015 That sounds pretty specific. Don't recall seeing any articles like that around. Also, seems most people only write such articles when they are complaining rather than talking about success. Here was one from a couple years back. Not exactly what you're looking for, but certain elements of business are universal. Might have been posted here before? Not sure. A lot of these all seem to sound alike, but at least this one was more constructive than many have been. Can't seem to copy and paste any of the text, but here's the link to the article. http://www.onstagemagazine.com/open-letter-from-a-bar-owner-to-musicians/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members senorblues Posted December 21, 2015 Author Members Share Posted December 21, 2015 The article is certainly germane to this discussion. I may even have read it before. It's always a good idea to remember that clubs are ALL about the ring, and sometimes we forget that some bands who may be mediocre musically will work steadily if they understand their role as salesmen. One of my favorite lines form a frontman is: "If anyone can tell me who wrote that song, they get to buy us a drink." That's not just funny. . . if done well, it helps their bottom line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members senorblues Posted December 21, 2015 Author Members Share Posted December 21, 2015 What I'm really after is a formula. If a band is paid "X" for the night, how may people have to show up to make sure the cost of the band is covered? Of course beer all night is different from top shelf stuff, but that can be a variable in the formula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 21, 2015 Members Share Posted December 21, 2015 That's an interesting question. I would think any particular 'formula' would be difficult to attain as operating costs can probably vary so much from venue to venue. Maybe there's a clubowners forum somewhere where they discuss this stuff? Assuming an average pour cost of 20-25% and an average price of $6 a drink, then I guess one would need to sell like 20-25 drinks per hour above what they would usually sell to pay the entertainment $100 an hour, presuming all their other costs remain the same whether they have entertainment or not. (They don't hire extra help, stay open later, increase advertising costs, etc.) But it would be interesting to hear from those who actually pay these costs what their perspective on it all is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members senorblues Posted December 21, 2015 Author Members Share Posted December 21, 2015 From a musicians perspective, probably the easiest way to tell if the gig is going well is to simply count heads. The next critical variable that isn't too hard to measure is how long people stay. You obviously have some responsibility for retention. It starts with butts in the seats. Feet on the floor is a different, but related, question. Ideally, we would have access to "the ring." Does anyone work rooms where that's shared and analyzed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted December 23, 2015 Members Share Posted December 23, 2015 A must watch is "Bar Rescue" - some of the bars have live music and they touch on the financials thereof. Usually the live music is losing money and better off gone . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members senorblues Posted December 23, 2015 Author Members Share Posted December 23, 2015 Well that's not very encouraging . . . I hadn't heard about this series. I see that there are quite a few long and short clips on youtube, but I didn't see any episodes that are music related. If there was a positive one about music, I'd send it on to a club I'm negotiating with now. Here's the deal . . . . The current owner bought the club a little over a year ago, and wants to change from paying the band outright to the dreaded "receipts from a cover charge" model. If they wanted to attract young fans of rock star wannabes, I might understand, but they've said they want to attract an older "white collar" crowd. OK, fine, but the musicians that can cater to that target audience are more likely to be professional players. Surprisingly, their young manager in charge of booking listened to my dissertation and took it back to the owner, but it would help if there were definitive articles on the subject to support my thesis. This is a presented as a regular Thursday rotation with two other bands, so I'd like to make this work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted December 24, 2015 Members Share Posted December 24, 2015 I hadn't heard about this series. I see that there are quite a few long and short clips on youtube, but I didn't see any episodes that are music related. If there was a positive one about music, I'd send it on to a club I'm negotiating with now. There might not be a positive one. There were a couple where they kept it but I got the impression it was a wash at best: http://www.spike.com/shows/bar-rescue/episode-guide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted December 24, 2015 Members Share Posted December 24, 2015 Live music related:http://www.spike.com/episodes/ofg01w...eason-4-ep-424http://www.spike.com/episodes/kv5vl6...eason-4-ep-411http://www.spike.com/episodes/7m6tj9/bar-rescue-webers-of-lies-season-2-ep-207http://www.spike.com/episodes/rwukcx...eason-1-ep-103 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members senorblues Posted December 24, 2015 Author Members Share Posted December 24, 2015 Previews and crescent rolls . . . . . . Appreciate your efforts, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 24, 2015 Members Share Posted December 24, 2015 Here's the deal . . . . The current owner bought the club a little over a year ago, and wants to change from paying the band outright to the dreaded "receipts from a cover charge" model. Wanting the music to pay for itself is understandable. Obviously they don't want to lose money by having music. The problem is that venues so often go about it the wrong way. If you're running a concert hall or an almost-strictly live music venue, then focusing on "receipts from a cover charge" makes sense. But if it's primarily a restaurant or other venue where the music is not the main focus? Then, in my view anyway, these places have it backwards. Especially if they are catering to an older, white collar crowd. These aren't the "hey honey! I saw a flyer on a telephone poll saying that SenorBlues is playing at Bob's Joint tonight! Let's call up our friends and go down and do some shots and beers!" type of folks. They are the "I need to get out. Let's go to Bob's Joint tonight. We like their crabcakes and they've usually got a good band playing!" type of folks. The music in such a venue needs to be treated like anything else they have that they spend money on to add to the overall nature, ambiance, and quality of the venue. They pay extra money for a high-quality chef and a high end menu that helps to build a clientele, but then they expect the band to bring in their own audience and pay for themselves on a nightly basis. They come for the great food--not necessarily (if at all) for who the individual chef might be. They similarly need to come for the music, not necessarily the musician. The business model that such venues need to imploy is one where they consistently bring in high-quality music of a certain style so the clientele knows that this is the place to go to hear good music on a Thursday night. Then, over time---like with having a good chef or a great wine list---they build a clientele and following for that feature. The "receipts from a cover charge" model is part of the problem that has led us to where we are today. It encourages bringing in acts where the quality doesn't matter, just as long as they bring in enough of their own friends and following to sell some drinks. Sounds good in the short term but the problem is that even if you do manage to find a band that brings in 100 guests, they'll just take them with them to the next venue next week, so what has your venue really gained by having that band in the first place? Sure, charge a cover once the music starts if they think the quality of music warrants doing so--I have no problem with cover charges--but don't rely on the band to be the reason the people show up. The venue needs to be the draw, not the act. The acts they hire just need to be the right ones for the atmosphere they want to create and will help to keep the crowd there. And, if over time, the act builds their own following--all the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 24, 2015 Members Share Posted December 24, 2015 A must watch is "Bar Rescue" - some of the bars have live music and they touch on the financials thereof. Usually the live music is losing money and better off gone . Big fan of "Bar Rescue", but never seen an episode where he didn't nix the live music. I think if you've got a bar that's losing money and you're spending money on live music, getting rid of the music is just too easy of a "fix" to resist. And having a successful live music venue means you need to have some sense of who the good bands in the area are. Not really something someone from an out-of-town TV show can come in and set up for you in 72 hours like putting up a new sign out front or a new beer tap cooler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted December 26, 2015 Members Share Posted December 26, 2015 There was an episode where he saved the live music, but fired the really, really, crappy (free) house band, that was fronted by a co-owner. Then he got the other owner to buy that guy out. The bar's focus was live music. Then he improved the stage, put in a decent PA and lights. That bar (America Live) is out of business now, but it was touted as a success on the show. Apparently, they couldn't make rent and shuttered just before the show aired. Trolling their facebook page, it looks like they had a lot more Karaoke on their new stage than they did bands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 26, 2015 Members Share Posted December 26, 2015 There was an episode where he saved the live music, but fired the really, really, crappy (free) house band, that was fronted by a co-owner. Then he got the other owner to buy that guy out. The bar's focus was live music. Then he improved the stage, put in a decent PA and lights. That bar (America Live) is out of business now, but it was touted as a success on the show. Apparently, they couldn't make rent and shuttered just before the show aired. Trolling their facebook page, it looks like they had a lot more Karaoke on their new stage than they did bands. I seem to remember that episode as well now that you mention it. While I enjoy "Bar Rescue" (it's great late night mindless TV when you just wanna shut down and not watch anything that takes brainpower to do so), like most reality shows, it's pretty phony most of the time. They are there to create an entertaing hour of TV, not rescue a bar. The websites that post follow-ups to the episodes make pretty clear that a lot of what happens on the show is set up. I remember one infamous episode where Taffer was all upset to find out that a pretty waitress was flashing her boobs to customers for extra tips. Turned out the girl didn't even work for the bar. The producers brought her in and set it all up to help the plotline of the episode. Most of the bar owners seem to be in it just for the free publicity and maybe getting some free new stuff. And those in such desperate states as often described on the show (hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt) aren't going to be rescued by a 20% increase in gross revenue. A lot of them seem to fail anyway, many revert back to their old names/business models once the show leaves, and some of the stories of barowners speaking of their bad experiences with the show are pretty interesting as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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