Members sventvkg Posted November 17, 2015 Members Share Posted November 17, 2015 I call BS.....If that were the case just get a DJ. Discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 18, 2015 Members Share Posted November 18, 2015 "Working"? Depends on the type of band and the type of gig. What defines whether a song "works" is entirely dependent on the gig, the audience, and what kind of response you're trying to illicit. "If that were the case just get a DJ"? TOTAL BS. Even for a dance band. Unless playing the song just like the record is the only means you have of entertaining the audience, I suppose. Then in THAT case---sure. Hire a DJ. But the point of being a live band is to be...well.... LIVE and provide a level of entertainment that recorded music cannot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted November 18, 2015 Author Members Share Posted November 18, 2015 I agree but All I ever hear or see written by prognosticators is that if the song doesn't make them "dance" or "Move" it doesn't work and needs to be dropped. If it doesn't have enough "energy"...I think this is bullCRAZZZ....I think they greatest music of all time will move an audience. Yes you DO need to have some songs that do make people dance but you also have to have some songs that make people think. Trigger nostalgia and memories and make people FEEL GOOD!....It's not only about being able to pack a dance floor. Somewhere along the way that goal was adopted and it's wrong. Probably because in the bar business your job is to sell alcohol and the more people dance, the more they drink etc...For the corporate and private events business that i'm in, I think there's room to place the greatest music ever written and not all of it is danceable. If it's done well..I mean as well as the original artists who did it, the song is a big hit and recognizable to most, it will do well most of the time in the right situation. But you always have to be ready to change it up on the fly if you're plan of attack isn't working! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 18, 2015 Members Share Posted November 18, 2015 ESPECIALLY in the corporate and private event gig is it gig-dependent. Since I only get hired for such gigs because I have a dance/party band than anything other than dance/party music would be a mistake. But certainly there are events where the clients want other types of entertainment and hire other types of bands trick is: know your audience, know your gig, know your band and know your business. I've been doing this far too long and I'm much too old to want to waste my time trying stuff out that I think is cool and hope that it will work and will change up quick if it does not. Been there; done that; and learned all those lessons for a reason. But you have me curious now. Which sort of songs and situations are you thinking of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted November 18, 2015 Author Members Share Posted November 18, 2015 right and your focus is a dance/Party band. For that...well DUH!!! You need to do danceable tunes!!!...I'm going to prove that the BurgerFi, In and Out Model (whatever high quality burger place you have in the bay area) will work as opposed to the McDonald's model. High end, The best sound, best lights, video, best singing, best playing, best music ever written....I'm going to prove this model works in Live music because it works everywhere else and in the famous artist live arena as well. I'd rather do 50, $5K gigs a year than 100 $2500. I know this model works but most people don't want to put in the work. QUALITY QUALITY QUALITY...Uncompromising Quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 18, 2015 Members Share Posted November 18, 2015 So what's your focus going to be? What's the hook of the product that will draw the $5k gigs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted November 18, 2015 Author Members Share Posted November 18, 2015 I just told you in a general sense. Also a system that's replicatable. Highest possible quality. Tailored song list, Great Show, Epic level promo...I'm excited for you to see/hear the promo!!!! Gonna be a few more months I think till we shoot the videos:) Also, down to presentation. PA, Sound, Lights, Ears, Wireless, Video Show, Mulitple LED screens, everything in sync playing to the best backing tracks (that we have been working on for a year and a 1/2 to fill holes add to the sonic experience)...All told we're investing close to $100K to get this up and running. Can't wait to unveil it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 18, 2015 Members Share Posted November 18, 2015 Can't wait to see it! Gonna be brutally honest with you though about a couple of things. Take it for what you will. 1) "High quality" isn't really a great marketable commodity in and of itself. It's the concepts that sell in the private event market, more than the execution. If you look around, you'll notice the highest paid bands are usually the High Concept acts. And many times they suck. But the concept is great. And sure, there are some bands that are hugely successful based on their reputations for great quality, but getting to the point where people want Sventvkg's Band and will pay top dollar because they know how kick ass it is? Yeah, that's a great point to be, but that can take YEARS to develop that sort of regional rep. All the bands I know at that level are the ones who started small years ago and worked their way up. By all means---be as high quality as you can and that certainly isn't going to do anything but help you get better gigs and better money, but----"best sound, best lights, video, best singing, best playing, best music ever written..."----I don't think that alone is going to be enough. it's gotta be something a bit more focused than that. 2) You completely lost me when you talk about all that high quality and then talk about it being "replicable". I've never seen a replicated act that didn't generally suck. Sure, maybe the original band is kick ass, but the replicated versions with the hired players doing what they are told by the Svengali booking the gigs? Usually b-level players putting out a c-level band because they are only in it for the money. And again, the only thing that's really replicable is the gimmick. You can't replicate "quality". Almost by definition. Best example I can think of here? The Spazmatics. Great concept. Great band. Replicated all across the country. But the replicated versions are mostly junk from a musical quality and even showmanship standpoint. Because the replicated versions are just trying to imitate something that someone else nailed because they lived it. But at least you can put the people in the costumes and give them the same songlist and call it "Spazmatics" and book some gigs and make some money. Because the concept is so high. But replicating "best sound, best lights, video, best singing, best playing, best music ever written..."? Won't that vary from musician to musician? How you going to manage that from a "replicable" standpoint? That's like having a chain of "great food" restaurants with the same name but they all have different menus depending upon the individual chefs. How do you market that? You know what markets well and is replicable? Hooters. Crappy food, overpriced drinks, but everyone who goes into one knows they will see pretty waitresses with big boobs wearing short shorts. And if the food is better at one of the restaurants than another? Awesome. And maybe that one will do a bit better than some of the others in the chain because of that. But that isn't the draw. By all means---keep the quality as high as you can. But if the goal is about doing the fewest gigs every year for the most money? make sure your concept is as high and tight as it can be. Again...take all that for what you will, but I know you want to be as successful as you can, and I'd hate to see you standing around wondering why your band isn't booking as much as the 5 doofy guys with disco wigs playing to crappy tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted November 18, 2015 Author Members Share Posted November 18, 2015 Can't wait to see it! Gonna be brutally honest with you though about a couple of things. Take it for what you will. 1) "High quality" isn't really a great marketable commodity in and of itself. It's the concepts that sell in the private event market, more than the execution. If you look around, you'll notice the highest paid bands are usually the High Concept acts. And many times they suck. But the concept is great. And sure, there are some bands that are hugely successful based on their reputations for great quality, but getting to the point where people want Sventvkg's Band and will pay top dollar because they know how kick ass it is? Yeah, that's a great point to be, but that can take YEARS to develop that sort of regional rep. All the bands I know at that level are the ones who started small years ago and worked their way up. By all means---be as high quality as you can and that certainly isn't going to do anything but help you get better gigs and better money, but----"best sound, best lights, video, best singing, best playing, best music ever written..."----I don't think that alone is going to be enough. it's gotta be something a bit more focused than that. 2) You completely lost me when you talk about all that high quality and then talk about it being "replicable". I've never seen a replicated act that didn't generally suck. Sure, maybe the original band is kick ass, but the replicated versions with the hired players doing what they are told by the Svengali booking the gigs? Usually b-level players putting out a c-level band because they are only in it for the money. And again, the only thing that's really replicable is the gimmick. You can't replicate "quality". Almost by definition. Best example I can think of here? The Spazmatics. Great concept. Great band. Replicated all across the country. But the replicated versions are mostly junk from a musical quality and even showmanship standpoint. Because the replicated versions are just trying to imitate something that someone else nailed because they lived it. But at least you can put the people in the costumes and give them the same songlist and call it "Spazmatics" and book some gigs and make some money. Because the concept is so high. But replicating "best sound, best lights, video, best singing, best playing, best music ever written..."? Won't that vary from musician to musician? How you going to manage that from a "replicable" standpoint? That's like having a chain of "great food" restaurants with the same name but they all have different menus depending upon the individual chefs. How do you market that? You know what markets well and is replicable? Hooters. Crappy food, overpriced drinks, but everyone who goes into one knows they will see pretty waitresses with big boobs wearing short shorts. And if the food is better at one of the restaurants than another? Awesome. And maybe that one will do a bit better than some of the others in the chain because of that. But that isn't the draw. By all means---keep the quality as high as you can. But if the goal is about doing the fewest gigs every year for the most money? make sure your concept is as high and tight as it can be. Again...take all that for what you will, but I know you want to be as successful as you can, and I'd hate to see you standing around wondering why your band isn't booking as much as the 5 doofy guys with disco wigs playing to crappy tracks. Well I don't want to reveal too much prematurely but I'll say this: We have a concept and a Branding Idea Based on a system we created for it to all run smoothly and synergistically, that's more than just "A Band" It consists of a brand that can be Variety, Country, 80's 90's, Top40, yacht rock, or what have you laid over a system. We created and recorded all the tracks ourselves taking GREAT pains to make them as identical sounding as humanly possible. From guitar tones, drum tones, effects, Mix etc...When you'll hear them you'll see! In addition to the tracks we have a video show and lights that go along with them. Now here's the part about being replicatalble. The System itself is what's replicatable and we have it so you can overlay any of these acts on top. We aren't looking to be a Spazmatics..I'd like to have the ability to have 3 or 4 of my variety bands playing around the SE on a given weekend however eventually. The problem with the musicianship of other Franchise bands is very real and we put a lot of work and thought into minimizing that with our tracks. If any element is weak our soundman which will always be in charge on those gigs will be able to float our track in over the subpar part, thereby giving the audience who won't know any better a consistent level of show. There are enough competent players in just my area for me to be able to find 5 or 6 deep on EVERY instrument that knows our show Including and especially singers. Quality singers in the Orlando area are EVERYWHERE as people come here every week to get into shows at the parks! There's an incredible pool of talent here, the likes I haven't seen in this sphere at least. Like I said there's definitely room for a higher end product because everyone else IS McDonalds. We will be BurgerFi, In and Out or whatever you get the idea. We have several Concepts to paste over our Brand already. Country, 90's, 80's Yacht Rock, Dance and Variety. We also have several "Tribute" Acts based on our system. There's no one doing what we're doing around here AT ALL! We believe having been in this business for almost 30 years, that there's definitely a market and we've done our Market research. Plus we have the $$ for GREAT promo. Broadcast Level promo and it will be. EVERYTHING from pictures to a $30K Video, FB Ads, Features in Wedding Wire, The Knot, Gigmasters, Google, site optimization etc..Setting all that up the right way. Most business are limited on their startup $$ so they have to start small and build. We aren't thanks to my partner selling his Creative Agency in LA a few months ago..I'm not bragging...I'm just saying that we're fortunate enough to be able to do this right to a level we have not seen! I totally agree with you it's about High Concept and our system, branding, and show is all about a Concept!!! Thanks for that and i'm glad you mentioned it because it's absolutely correct and essential. Our Bread and butter is going to be Weddings with the standard Variety act and we will be able to offer that reasonably locally in the State of FL for around $3500 or so to start. Very reasonable, plus this is a HUGE wedding market, underserved other than latin top 40 bands. We don't need all the work, just enough and we'll get it. We already have a booking agent for our corporate stuff tied into Hello Florida who I already do a lot of work. I also have 2 other smaller agents I deal with for private events. There's A LOT of work around here!!! Within the first couple years we should have a 1/2 dozen properties rolling laid over our system with fully crafted, designed, streamlined shows. It's very exciting!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 18, 2015 Members Share Posted November 18, 2015 Well that all sounds pretty awesome, to be sure! Cant wait to see the results! But I gotta say, your system (as you described it anyway) doesn't really sound like it has a lot of flexibility for things like this thread topic. You're going to spend time working up tracks to songs you aren't virtually 100% sure are going to work? And you're going to be able to switch things up quickly if they don't? But I can see why you have an aversion to Top 40 stuff that has a short shelf-life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted November 18, 2015 Author Members Share Posted November 18, 2015 Absolutely. At the click of a mouse in a few seconds we can switch up an entire set list start a different song change anything we want on the fly musically. We've been at this so long full time aside from my self-imposed retirement in Nashville, that like you we know what music works and what doesn't generally speaking. It's not so much what you play but in the presentation of it as we all now and it's about the concept. And my focus is building a business not playing in a band these days I'm over that. In fact I want to completely replace myself from 90 to 95% of the playing in the next five years or so because I just flat out don't enjoy it anymore. I might do the tech work sound or just interface with the clients etc. at that point. And as far as the top 40 stuff goes that is on and off the list we can work up tracks for a song with video lights in a few days so that's not really an issue. We want the songs that we playing and how it's presented to be a different twist and flavor than anybody. Don't give me wrong were still doing uptown funk Taylor Swift Paramore Luke Bryan etc. etc. many of the biggest hits of the last few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted November 18, 2015 Members Share Posted November 18, 2015 So everyone except the singers will be "lip syncing" to tracks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 18, 2015 Members Share Posted November 18, 2015 Well, I'm excited to hear/see your results. Especially curious as to what your concept(s) will be. I do agree that, even if the best markets, the quality of bands and promo isn't particularly high. I think it would be pretty easy to raise the bar above what the best bands seems to be doing in the SE. (At least from what I've seen by searching around online). Just the other day I was searching all around looking for promo videos from other bands to get ideas from and I was amazed at how bad most of the stuff out there is. Generically staged and shot. Nothing much at all that made me scream "yes! THAT'S what I'm talking about!" Especially a lot of the stuff from these "Entertainment" agencies where the bands don't even really have a name. You're just hiring "ACME Entertainment" to handle your event and they send out some generic band (apparently). Not that there is anything wrong with that business model---I'm just surprised at how weak a lot of their promo is. But then that begs the obvious question: how far does a band need to go in order to get the top dollar gigs and at what point is the ROI not high enough to make it worth all the extra time/effort? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted November 18, 2015 Author Members Share Posted November 18, 2015 Absolutely not but extra keyboard parts extra percussion, thickening background vocals and anything else will be there. The main parts will be played by the band members who will be musicians at my level. However if something is not working the main parts will be available to be flown in. No different than any major band out there today touring. You have to remember it's not about hobby band for me it's about building a business that's consistent and high-quality. From the clients perspective that's all that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted November 18, 2015 Author Members Share Posted November 18, 2015 Well I have a friend who is in the high-end wedding markets in Miami and they signed up with a new high-end agency recently. The band shot a new video that was about $30,000. They went from a half a million annually to $1.2 million based on the new promo in a year. Promo on the level absolutely brings a substantial return on investment in business. It's just that in our business most people don't put the money in which I think is absurd. We haven't really found to many examples of marketing that's on the level out there either so it's not surprising that you haven't been able to. Like I said all told were investing about $100,000 and a couple years of our time getting this started which I think is on par with what we're trying to do at the level were trying to do it. I think it's hilarious that people don't want to put the money in when to start most other businesses cost us at least a substantial and many times more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted November 18, 2015 Author Members Share Posted November 18, 2015 Anyway to get back to the original question is dance ability the only criteria to judge whether a song works or it doesn't? I'm thinking maybe in the bars more so than other gigs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 18, 2015 Members Share Posted November 18, 2015 Anyway to get back to the original question is dance ability the only criteria to judge whether a song works or it doesn't? I'm thinking maybe in the bars more so than other gigs the real answer is audience response. If you've got 100 people in the room all eyes focused on the stage and a huge applause after you finish, then who cares whether they danced of not? getting people to dance is used so often as a measure because it's easier to do than get their attention in other ways and because dancing is often why a lot of people are there. But if you can engage them and hold them with just a concert-like atmosphere, then so much the better problem sometimes, though, is that musicians can be horrible judges as to whether a song is working or not. If they like performing the song enough, they'll convince themselves it is working even when it obviously isn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 18, 2015 Members Share Posted November 18, 2015 Mind sending me a link to the promo of this band? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted November 18, 2015 Author Members Share Posted November 18, 2015 But if you can engage them and hold them with just a concert-like atmosphere, then so much the better problem sometimes, though, is that musicians can be horrible judges as to whether a song is working or not. If they like performing the song enough, they'll convince themselves it is working even when it obviously isn't Bingo!!! Most musicians are only in it for themselves. What if I owned the store and I only sold the products that I liked? Insane right? From a business perspective we should try to find some middle ground but the dominant criteria will always be whether or not the crowd likes the song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 18, 2015 Members Share Posted November 18, 2015 As a dance band, the idea that the song list needs to be familiar and dancable goes without saying. But that alone isn't enough. Like you said, if that's all there is to it, might as well hire a DJ our biggest moments of the night, and the basis for our positive responses are from the things we do above and beyond just keeping the dancefloor full. It's the moments of getting people onstage with us and having fun and seeing a dozen phones go up with people taking pictures of what it happening on stage. It's in getting the entire room singing along to a song. It's having the audience erupt in cheers and applause when the singer knocks a ballad out of the park. It about how the set is structured and paced to create maximum momentum and energy from the crowd. Its about taking those dance (and non-dance) songs and making "moments" out of them that connect with the audience. That's where the money is made. Picking popular dance songs? Yeah, that's the easy part and any DJ can do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wheresgrant3 Posted November 19, 2015 Members Share Posted November 19, 2015 We've always had the motto that if you can't dance to it or chant along then it doesn't have room for it in our setlist. But that's just the recipe for our band. Our setlist and some of the presentation is what made us successful. However we weren't a Swiss Army knife band... something plug and play that would work in every market or gig situation. We were never that big in the professional gig market. It doesn't mean that we didn't make some great money in the clubs and doing weddings and events. It sounds to me that you are selling a 'certain' experience with your package. It also sounds like you have a lot of time and money invested. I hope for the work involved there is a return. As I look at the events market in the northeast the number of gigs are getting smaller so the top tier bands are booked without question. When any doubt agents, managers, club owners, event coordinators go with the legacy product they've been working with for years. It's tried and true. Southeast circuit might not have that same ironclad control over the entertainment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wheresgrant3 Posted November 19, 2015 Members Share Posted November 19, 2015 Bingo!!! Most musicians are only in it for themselves. What if I owned the store and I only sold the products that I liked? Insane right? From a business perspective we should try to find some middle ground but the dominant criteria will always be whether or not the crowd likes the song. I don't think this is any differnt than how we have approached songs. We play for the audience not ourselves. It's been that way for over 12 years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted November 19, 2015 Author Members Share Posted November 19, 2015 Yes and I know and you've been successful in your market! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted November 20, 2015 Members Share Posted November 20, 2015 Having read this thread - the cognitive dissonance I'm experiencing is pretty tough to ignore. Big bucks on sound, lights and promotion - OK, it certainly can't hurt a groups' marketability/success. However, that will only take you so far - before the law diminishing returns begins to limit it. You can't "equip" your way to success - especially if turning a profit is a requirement. The emphasis on quality is great. Only a fool would argue against the need for a quality product. I just can't get past the idea that the plan calls for many elements of the show to be delivered via technology and not via true live musicians. I can't think of any examples of truly hot acts that found success with a canned show. Artists who've already found fame milking it for all it's worth with a show using canned components - yes. But, artists looking to find fame using canned components - not so much. I've never seen audience excitement for that sort of product come close the excitement that Sventvkg seems to have for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 20, 2015 Members Share Posted November 20, 2015 Having read this thread - the cognitive dissonance I'm experiencing is pretty tough to ignore. Big bucks on sound, lights and promotion - OK, it certainly can't hurt a groups' marketability/success. However, that will only take you so far - before the law diminishing returns begins to limit it. You can't "equip" your way to success - especially if turning a profit is a requirement. The emphasis on quality is great. Only a fool would argue against the need for a quality product. I just can't get past the idea that the plan calls for many elements of the show to be delivered via technology and not via true live musicians. I can't think of any examples of truly hot acts that found success with a canned show. Artists who've already found fame milking it for all it's worth with a show using canned components - yes. But, artists looking to find fame using canned components - not so much. I've never seen audience excitement for that sort of product come close the excitement that Sventvkg seems to have for it. I tend to agree with you, but I've also learned to never say never. So I'm anxious to see what his finished product will be. But im with you all the way about diminishing returns. Every market is different but the market I work is highly competitive and I don't see how an extra $50-100k in gear is going to make much difference. Most high end bands around here seem to be running tracks to one degree or another, but rarely to any particular monetary benefit. It does make things easier for the guy running the acts. Those bands usually run on hired guns to a large degree; so switching out players becomes easier. But it isn't anything that benefits the audience one way or another. Interesting the comments about "why not hire a DJ" and then talk about tracks that nail the record. Disconnect there for me. In my experience, it's usually the stuff that gets you AWAY from the record that separates that high-end acts from the assembly line bands. But it's all in what the finished product ends up being that counts. look forward to seeing it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.