Members WonderMalcolm Posted March 15, 2004 Members Share Posted March 15, 2004 I suppose I need a pre and power amp or a rack mount head. I basically want to end up with a bad-ass rack that can cover anything. I suppose eventually add some TC Electronic rack effects and what not. I sound like a troll, but I would like to have a rack set-up. I know I sound like a troll, but I am completely new to racks and currently don't own anything so it would all have to be bought. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lockjaw Posted March 15, 2004 Members Share Posted March 15, 2004 Name your favorite bands, and amps that you like; so I can get an idea of the sound you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shask Posted March 15, 2004 Members Share Posted March 15, 2004 Yeah, basically start with a preamp, and power amp. Thats really all you need. Then in time add an FX unit, power conditioner, switching? Anything you want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Longhair Posted March 15, 2004 Members Share Posted March 15, 2004 Sit down and figure everthing out that you want in rack spaces, then buy the rack case itself first. Getting a 4 or 6 space one and realizing that you need a 16 space, shockmount on wheels a month later is a bigger pain in the ass than you think (and costly also). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Duke of Metal Posted March 15, 2004 Members Share Posted March 15, 2004 whats the budget you want to spend in total? Duke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sp_spaceboy Posted March 15, 2004 Members Share Posted March 15, 2004 Originally posted by Shask Yeah, basically start with a preamp, and power amp. Thats really all you need. Then in time add an FX unit, power conditioner, switching? Anything you want and don't forget speakers. 2x12s are obviously much more portable, but 4x12s actually tend to be about the same price if not cheaper on ebay - and a lot more common. and of course, louder! (in theory... i know there's a lot of technical stuff behind that...) but that's all something to take into consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WonderMalcolm Posted March 15, 2004 Author Members Share Posted March 15, 2004 Ok, let me try to answer everyone in one post. As strange as it sounds, the rack will be my first real amp. I have a little practice amp but am looking for something bigger and better. I like all sorts of amps like the Mark IV, Fender whatevers, Marshall JCM 800s and Jubilee, um, Orange. There aren't many amps I don't like. I like all sorts of bands/artists as well: Green Day, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Van Halen, Guns N Roses, Skid Row, Journey, Larry Carlton, Poison, lots of 80s early 90s stuff. More so the 80s power ballad rock type sound although I play jazz and some metal as well. I don't really know what I need or want, which is why I came here. I need advice and have no idea what I need besides a pre and power amp or a rackmount head. I can spend 6k tops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sp_spaceboy Posted March 15, 2004 Members Share Posted March 15, 2004 well then give us your budget - we need something to work with! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WonderMalcolm Posted March 15, 2004 Author Members Share Posted March 15, 2004 Originally posted by sp_spaceboy well then give us your budget - we need something to work with! Originally posted by WonderMalcolm Ok, let me try to answer everyone in one post....I can spend 6k tops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lockjaw Posted March 16, 2004 Members Share Posted March 16, 2004 6k...............{censored} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WonderMalcolm Posted March 16, 2004 Author Members Share Posted March 16, 2004 Originally posted by Lockjaw 6k...............{censored} Yeah...Now, keep in mind that is what I can spend, not what I must spend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lockjaw Posted March 16, 2004 Members Share Posted March 16, 2004 you dont need a begginer rack, I have a kick ass one, and i spent 1500 on it. Here is a suggestion (for a kick ass rack), and approximate price: VHT 2/90/2 (power amp), $650 Marshall jmp-1(preamp) (...suggestions from other people..not sure what sound you really want yet), $300 rocktron intellifex (effects), $180 Korg dtr (tuner), $100 furman (power conditioner), 60 SKB 6-space rack, $75......................... Then you obviously need a cab... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WonderMalcolm Posted March 16, 2004 Author Members Share Posted March 16, 2004 So going off of what LockJaw has said, here is what I believe I need: A preamp (no idea as to which one) A poweramp (have heard great things about mesa and VHT) A tuner (some sort of korg I guess) A power conditioner (Furman seems to be the industry standard) An effects unit (I have the cash, and want to maybe spring for TC Electronics or Eventide, whichever would be better) A rack case (I don't know which one) And obviously a cab, probably a Genz Benz 2x12 Thoughts, comments, suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr Ten Posted March 16, 2004 Members Share Posted March 16, 2004 Based on your style and keeping flexibility in mind, I'd go with... [rack spaces][brand][unit type] 1 - Korg - Tuner2 - CAE 3+ SE - Preamp1 - Eventide Eclipse - fx unit1 - VHT 2:90:2 - Power Amp1 - Furman - Power Supply You can go without the tuner if you wish to use something compact or on the pedalboard, ie: petersen VSII. Depending on your fx reach, you may very well rest with a few pedals instead of ditching $2k towards an effects unit. My experience with the g-force is that it gets old quick, waste of money, IMO. Since you name bands that have a simple approach to effects, the cleanest route there would be to get some pedals and use a looper like an axess grx-4. You need a midi controller to do the preamp/fx stuff, and if you don't need a lot going on, the axess mfc5 is a slick tool, larger would be a ground control or, gc pro. All in all, why go rack, test the waters with amp heads first. I have a 16-space rack but it's mainly a utility to amp heads, it's to be stocked with pedals, power, loops, routing, etc... junk. Think about it before making the plunge. And don't go off trends here, buy what you play/hear. Fire away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WonderMalcolm Posted March 16, 2004 Author Members Share Posted March 16, 2004 Well, in my original post, I inquired about racking a normal amp head (like a Mesa Mark IV), but everyone kind of ignored it, so I assumed they all thought a rack would be better. If anything, I would be bucking a trend, I don't know a single person who racks their equipment. And I was thinking about the Eventide or TC because I absolutely love delays, choruses, and reverbs. I can't get enough of them and use them all the time. I don't ever turn my chorus off. So, I'm not set on a pre and power amp, a head would be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr Ten Posted March 16, 2004 Members Share Posted March 16, 2004 Originally posted by WonderMalcolm Well, in my original post, I inquired about racking a normal amp head (like a Mesa Mark IV), but everyone kind of ignored it, so I assumed they all thought a rack would be better. If anything, I would be bucking a trend, I don't know a single person who racks their equipment. And I was thinking about the Eventide or TC because I absolutely love delays, choruses, and reverbs. I can't get enough of them and use them all the time. I don't ever turn my chorus off. So, I'm not set on a pre and power amp, a head would be fine. 3 Well, TC's are known for their unique and lush choruses, what kind of chorus do you use, and is it what you want or something else? Lexicon kills in the delay/verb department. Eventide is killer in all but if you're going to be running complicated multiple effects often, you may want to split up the processing into multiple units, ie: one unit for delay/verbs, another for choruses, etc. How many different delay sounds, reverb sounds, chorus sounds, other effects, real-time changes via expression pedals? Different distortion/clean sounds needed, tell us more about your demands. I'll think of more ideas. What amps have you been leaning towards? One amp or two? Etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WonderMalcolm Posted March 16, 2004 Author Members Share Posted March 16, 2004 Mr. Ten, I have been thinking about a Triaxis, because I have heard they are very versatile and Tube and MIDI compatible. I'm not sure about the Power Amp, maybe a Mesa or VHT. If I went with the rackmount head it would probably be some sort of Mesa. Just one amp either way. I love all kinds of choruses. I've never met one I didn't like. Same with verbs and delays. I need distortions and cleans, but I figure the Triaxis can handle it. I wouldn't need to run so many different effects that I need more than one unit if for no other reason than I can't afford more than one unit. I don't really need other effects but maybe a fuzz or phaser or octave pedal. Nothing crazy, although unless I am wrong, the Eventide et al can do other effects, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mori Posted March 16, 2004 Members Share Posted March 16, 2004 My gear was less than 6k. Around 4k, IIRC. I'd suggest you take a look at Engl stuff, mainly the preamp (530) and the power amp (930/60). Their stuff kicks ass Extremelly versatile. I play everything from blues to metal. And if you get a G-Major (great quality/price ratio multi effects unit) it will even midi switch the preamp. On a side note, I advise you to have 2 racks. One with only the poweramp. You'll regret it if you don't regards, mori Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Longhair Posted March 16, 2004 Members Share Posted March 16, 2004 Originally posted by mori On a side note, I advise you to have 2 racks. One with only the poweramp. You'll regret it if you don't I don't understand why the need for a separate rack just for the poweramp. Why not get an oversized one by 2 spaces and then have an open space before and after the powersupply. This would save trips to the car and back when hauling the stuff around. If weight is an issue, then get one with wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mori Posted March 16, 2004 Members Share Posted March 16, 2004 Originally posted by Longhair I don't understand why the need for a separate rack just for the poweramp. Why not get an oversized one by 2 spaces and then have an open space before and after the powersupply. This would save trips to the car and back when hauling the stuff around. If weight is an issue, then get one with wheels. Weight is the issue. My poweramp weights about 40 pounds. So does *all* the rest of the gear. Wheels won't help you much with stairs, loading the rack in a car or van, etc. You can easily carry two 40pound racks, one on each hand. Carrying one 80 pound rack is not that easy just my Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Beagle1 Posted March 16, 2004 Members Share Posted March 16, 2004 I'm with Mori on the weight issue. I used to have just an 8u shockmount rack that held all my stuff, including preamp, poweramp, effects, etc. It weighed a ton and was really difficult to move. I've since downsized to a 6u (non-shockmount) that holds the following: Egnater IE4, Peavey 50/50, Rocktron Replifex, Furman PL-8. It's still not exactly lightweight, but it's pretty manageable...no worse than carrying a 2x12 combo amp. If weight/size is a concern then sure, either split up the rack into a couple pieces: 2u for poweramp, and a 4u, 6u, or 8u for the rest. Or, I think the Mesa Triaxis is a great choice for a small rack. You could have a Triaxis, TC G-Force, Mesa 20/20 poweramp, and Furman power conditioner in a 4u rack. WonderMalcom -- for the ultimate in tonal flexibility, check out the Egnater M4 modular tube preamp (or the Randall RM4, as the Randall is based on Egnater's design). The M4/RM4 can do it all depending on which modules you buy: Fender, Marshall, Vox, Mesa Recto, etc. If you get sick of one module, or need a different sound, just swap it out for another. The parameters on each channel are not MIDI programmable like they are on Triaxis, JMP-1, etc, but the channels themselves can be switched via MIDI. Triaxis is good for Fender-ish cleans and Boogie leads, but IMHO it cannot handle the Marshall and Vox sounds like the Egnater/Randall can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Longhair Posted March 16, 2004 Members Share Posted March 16, 2004 I toasted my back a while ago so I never carry anything that is too heavy on my own. It is the smart thing to do even if you don't have back problems because it only takes 1 time to lift something wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sp_spaceboy Posted March 16, 2004 Members Share Posted March 16, 2004 Originally posted by WonderMalcolm Ok, let me try to answer everyone in one post. I can spend 6k tops. oops - my bad. about the rack mounted head - i never got the point of that... isn't the point of a head just to sit on the top of a 4x12 on it's own? is it a protection issue? or to keep everything together? I think from what i've heard about their transparency and how they dont colour the tone, VHT poweramps would be a good choice for versatility. that egnater sounds cool. is it actually valve? or some kind of modelling amp? how the hell does it work with those module things?? hell, with that kinda money you could just buy like 5 preamps, choose the one you like and sell the rest (assuming you buy them cheap), then do the same with poweramps, effects etc. Bit of a hassle, but you'd have the best chance to get your dream tone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr Ten Posted March 16, 2004 Members Share Posted March 16, 2004 Originally posted by mori Carrying one 80 pound rack is not that easy 80 lbs. would be a blessing to carry, does no one work out? Ooh me tough guy! Just kidding. About the triaxis, I like it but would not rely on it as my MAIN sound. Can get a little stale after a while, tube or not. Look at stuff that has knobs on it, bogner fish, egnater, cae 3+, try rackmounting a mark 2 c+ even, who knows. going all rack can be cool but you need to preserve that "amp" life and touch. I don't want to make any decisions for you but if you feel the triaxis to be a fun attempt at a first rack amp, give it a go, look into a mark iv and other mesa stuff too, play before you buy if you can. As far as effects, if you like simple and not the best in the world type stuff, maybe demo a g-major. The g-force is a little better but I just didn't have a thrilling experince with them. However, in using the simple effects like you named, it works perfectly fine. I myself would rather run pedals, and if you usually only use one setting for each sound, I'd say stick some pedals in some switchable loops, but if you're looking to make things most editable on the fly, then get a g-major or something. It's hard for me to say just dive in and grab the eventide, triaxis, vht 2:90:2, etc., because I'm just not sure you're ready for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WonderMalcolm Posted March 16, 2004 Author Members Share Posted March 16, 2004 Originally posted by Mr Ten It's hard for me to say just dive in and grab the eventide, triaxis, vht 2:90:2, etc., because I'm just not sure you're ready for this. Why would you say that? I think the rack is the perfect solution for me: self-contained, protected, easy to switch sounds, versatile, etc. I'm just wondering what the major drawbacks of going rack are. Not being able to just grab a head and cab and go isn't a real big issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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