Two preamp setup

[rackq]

Hi all,

 

I have been just an amp guy and now I want to try a rack setup. Although the advice I've been given elsewhere is to avoid them.

 

I have been lurking here a while and like the versatility the racks I've seen here seem to give.

I like the idea of using two different preamps so you have two amps in one.

So what are some ways of hooking two preamps up?

 

The system I'm planing is:

JMP-1

SP-77

Multi FX unit

 

into the FX return of my current amp and oneday a rack power amp.

 

Thanks for any help.

[grrrunge]

if you're looking for sort-of-an-all-in-one-package as far as switching and multieffects goes, i'd opt in for the G-System ( again )

 

otherwise dedicated switchers such as switchblade and the gcx seem to be the way to go..

 

whoever told you rack-stuff sucks lied there is quite a bit more to figure out than on your average amp head, but the payoff is greater versatility... i love my rack - period!

[rackq]

Thanks for the reply.

 

TC Electronics gear is a bit over my price point ATM.

I don't know where to get Sound Sculpture gear here in Australia.

 

So I will need a switcher to run two preamps?

 

Any other ways to do it?

With low to mid end gear?

[Zachman]

Axess Electronics, Voodoo labs GCX Switcher, Sound Sculpture Switchblade, Custom Audio Electronics, Radial headbone, and Mesa/Boogie used to make a amp switcher that you can sometimes find on ebay are ALL possible options for you.

 

Hope this helps

[Zachman]

 

Thanks for the reply. TC Electronics gear is a bit over my price point ATM. I don't know where to get Sound Sculpture gear here in Australia. So I will need a switcher to run two preamps? Any other ways to do it? With low to mid end gear?

 

 

You could use something like a Framptone amp switcher. One consideration is whether you want to be able to run more than one preamp at a time. Also plan for future growth (your IDEAL ULTIMATE setup), and start designing w/ that goal in mind, or you'll give yourself headaches. Lots of them.

 

for a relatively cheap solution you could just run a Framptone amp switcher (A/B/Y box w/ ground lift switches), or something similar.

[dpm]

Did you want to switch between preamps or run them both simultaneously and mix the result?

 

Running two preamps simultaneously brings issues with phase. You'd need a guitar splitter that is buffered, has transformer isolated outputs and phase reversal switches (if possible). Each gain stage (1/2 a 12ax7 in a tube amp) reverses the phase of the signal, so if one pre runs 2 gain stages and the other runs 3 you end up with the signals out of phase. Assuming you've succesfully split the guitar, and your preamps are in phase you then need to mix the signals. Some parallel loops can achieve this, otherwise a dedicated mixer will do it. Some mixers will have phase switches, which would negate the need for them at the splitter end. Combining 2 distorted signals can result in phase issues in the harmonic content of the distortion, which can sound good or bad, at best sounding sort of like an enhancer (think BBE etc). You've got to watch out for ground loops too.

 

If you just wanted to switch between units ignore what I've just written and get one of those loop switching doodads

[rackq]

Did you want to switch between preamps or run them both simultaneously and mix the result? Running two preamps simultaneously brings issues with phase. You'd need a guitar splitter that is buffered, has transformer isolated outputs and phase reversal switches (if possible). Each gain stage (1/2 a 12ax7 in a tube amp) reverses the phase of the signal, so if one pre runs 2 gain stages and the other runs 3 you end up with the signals out of phase. Assuming you've succesfully split the guitar, and your preamps are in phase you then need to mix the signals. Some parallel loops can achieve this, otherwise a dedicated mixer will do it. Some mixers will have phase switches, which would negate the need for them at the splitter end. Combining 2 distorted signals can result in phase issues in the harmonic content of the distortion, which can sound good or bad, at best sounding sort of like an enhancer (think BBE etc). You've got to watch out for ground loops too. If you just wanted to switch between units ignore what I've just written and get one of those loop switching doodads

I don't want to run both at the same time.

I don't care if I have to plug/unplug the guitar cable to change between preamps.

 

Could I run both preamps into a mixer and then to the multi FX?

Would something like this work:

http://www.behringer.com/RX1602/index.cfm?lang=eng

[dpm]

If you don't mind switching the guitar cable you'd be better off manually swapping the preamp outs too, you'll get a cleaner signal path. A stereo A/B box would be another option. Six mono jack sockets, a DPDT toggle switch, some wire and a metal box.

[Zachman]

Some of that gear is rare and expensive here in Oz. I'll google the gear though to edumacate me. My "ideal ultimate setup" would be the size of a fridge, full of gear I havn't even heard of yet. The system I see has about 6 spaces. I'm going to get a 10U case to allow for future GAS. (Yeah, I got it as bad as the next guy) I don't want to run both at the same time. I don't care if I have to plug/unplug the guitar cable to change between preamps. Could I run both preamps into a mixer and then to the multi FX? Would something like this work: http://www.behringer.com/RX1602/index.cfm?lang=eng

 

I understand. Really... click on my website link in my sig. You will understand.

 

On the FAQ page there is a TON of info that you WILL find VERY useful, entertaining, and educational.

 

Though your ideal rack may be a fridge sized thing, like mine (20 Spaces), if you know what the devices really would be, then you could start planning accordingly.

 

Most importantly is knowing what sort of features you'll want from your rig. On my site, on the FAQ page, there is a section called: How do I determine what I need. READ it. Send me an e-mail anytime re: your ideas, and I'll be happy to discuss them with you. PS, I may be able to assist you w/ procuring gear and shipping it to you.

 

Zach

[rackq]

 

I understand. Really... click on my website link in my sig. You will understand. On the FAQ page there is a TON of info that you WILL find VERY useful, entertaining, and educational.

 

Wow. That is a lot of info. Take me a while to get through that.

 

Though your ideal rack may be a fridge sized thing, like mine (20 Spaces), if you know what the devices really would be, then you could start planning accordingly.

 

To be realistic, I want to stay around 6-8 space.

 

Most importantly is knowing what sort of features you'll want from your rig. On my site, on the FAQ page, there is a section called: How do I determine what I need. READ it. Send me an e-mail anytime re: your ideas, and I'll be happy to discuss them with you. PS, I may be able to assist you w/ procuring gear and shipping it to you. Zach

 

 

Thanks for being so helpful.

I'll have a bit of a think and send you an email with my rack idea.

Cheers

[dpm]

Great info there Zachman! I'd seen your site earlier but not realised all that FAQ stuff was there.

 

I have a question you might be able to help with. New thread time...

[Zachman]

 

Great info there Zachman! I'd seen your site earlier but not realised all that FAQ stuff was there. I have a question you might be able to help with. New thread time...

 

 

shoot

[Zachman]

Wow. That is a lot of info. Take me a while to get through that. To be realistic, I want to stay around 6-8 space. Thanks for being so helpful. I'll have a bit of a think and send you an email with my rack idea. Cheers

 

It is a LOT of stuff to wrap ones head around. No worries though, everything seems daunting at 1st. That is the reason why I made the site, so that people could go and read at their own pace. There are a couple of videos that EVERYONE should watch and make a point to understand. Grounding and shielding, and Ground Loops.

 

Feel free to contact me anytime.

 

My idea of an IDEAL mini 6 space rack is:

 

* ATA Rated Shock Rack I like Kriz Kraft (A&S)

* Furman AR15 Power Conditioner 1 space

* Fractal Audio Axe-FX Ultra 2 spaces

* VHT 50:50 Power amp 2 spaces

 

(2) 1x12 cabs for small gigs, or you could go up to 4x12's

 

Axess FX-1 MIDI Footcontroller

Boss FV-500 Volume Pedals (used as Continuous Controllers, and as volume pedals)

[perceive]

Some of that gear is rare and expensive here in Oz. I'll google the gear though to edumacate me.

 

You are definitely correct, and the cost of stuff to Australia can be exorbitant.

There are two tricks involved - the first is to know what you really want. Then use ebay and be aware of what the "system" will and won't tolerate.

i.e. the tax threshold being $1000AUD including postage. If possible try and keep it below that.

For instance, I just bought recently a GCX audio switcher and ground control pro. The way I did it to be safe was buy the control board one week and then the audio switcher the other. That gets through customs easily.

If I bought them both together, becoming a much closer figure to $1000 I might have to consider the GST, on both postage and the value of the goods combined, +$50 customs fees plus any potential tariff on selected musical instruments as well...

This is not too much help just an indicator that with good forethought and planning that minimising cost is achievable - brining what we pay much closer to what they pay in the US and far less than the overinflated prices we pay here. Being realistic we would get ripped off one piece of gear in 3 with and still save money when you consider the cost of buying them after Australian distributors have inflated the prices...

[dpm]

^ good advise

 

Also, try to have things posted USPS. Most rack gear will cost in the $50 postage range using post, as opposed to a couple of hundred dollars with Fedex, UPS or DHL.

 

Watch out for equipment that only runs on 110v. Do your research. Power transformers can be expensive things to replace.

[rackq]

^ good advise Also, try to have things posted USPS. Most rack gear will cost in the $50 postage range using post, as opposed to a couple of hundred dollars with Fedex, UPS or DHL. Watch out for equipment that only runs on 110v. Do your research. Power transformers can be expensive things to replace.

 

Some transformers have a 240V tap that can be re-wired.

like you say, gotta check stuff out carefully.

 

Thanks fellas.

[perceive]

I have found Ishibashi (no joke) in Japan has good prices on Japanese made stuff. Not much rack gear though. Some transformers have a 240V tap that can be re-wired. like you say, gotta check stuff out carefully. Thanks fellas.

 

Absolutely - as for the Japanese companies you can pick up some fantastic stuff at good cost... if not then ebay is a good option as we lack craigslist or anything similar that has the sheer range of products that craigslist has..

 

I have bought, and happily use some stuff at 110V with a step down converter. They cost a bit but again - far far cheaper than shelling out extra for the Australian distributed equivalent.

 

Also, many more products, particularly non amplifier related rack gear, is auto sensing on voltage. Good examples of this are all TC Electronics products, T Rex effects pedals (some any way - the replica is one example).

often the only thing needed is a power adapter that will change the US style plug (o UK or etc) into the standard .au plug. These are cheap and can be picked up from dick smith etc for little cost...

 

Cheers again, and good luck with it...

[Zachman]

 

Absolutely - as for the Japanese companies you can pick up some fantastic stuff at good cost... if not then ebay is a good option as we lack craigslist or anything similar that has the sheer range of products that craigslist has.. I have bought, and happily use some stuff at 110V with a step down converter. They cost a bit but again - far far cheaper than shelling out extra for the Australian distributed equivalent. Also, many more products, particularly non amplifier related rack gear, is auto sensing on voltage. Good examples of this are all TC Electronics products, T Rex effects pedals (some any way - the replica is one example). often the only thing needed is a power adapter that will change the US style plug (o UK or etc) into the standard .au plug. These are cheap and can be picked up from dick smith etc for little cost... Cheers again, and good luck with it...

 

 

TC stuff is NOT auto sensing on voltage. You have to actually set a selector to the correct voltage for your requirements, if you set it wrong, BOOM... No more TC stuff

[perceive]

The older stuff is not you are correct - my apologies, the D-two and G-major I have are auto sense, as are all the power supplies supplied with all their recent pedals (Nova reverb and delay in particular - very handy to have the power supply only needing an adapter for the plug and that is all)....But with the 1140 etc you are definitely correct.. I am also then assuming the 2290 and all other than the most recent models are not auto sense...

[Zachman]

The older stuff is not you are correct - my apologies, the D-two and G-major I have are auto sense, as are all the power supplies supplied with all their recent pedals (Nova reverb and delay in particular - very handy to have the power supply only needing an adapter for the plug and that is all)....But with the 1140 etc you are definitely correct.. I am also then assuming the 2290 and all other than the most recent models are not auto sense...

 

Ya, 2290, 1128, 1140, 1210 have selector switches

 

 

I didn't know you were a part of the TC brotherhood... COOL

[perceive]

Ya, 2290, 1128, 1140, 1210 have selector switches I didn't know you were a part of the TC brotherhood... COOL

 

Not as much as you!

 

I'd love a tc2290 etc but for now the nova delay and d2 really do cover off my needs (considering I have a timefactor due to arrive any day as well)..

Next on the list will be a harmoniser but that is a scary proposition as I cannot see a way to get one without having to go through customs crap and taxation and fees etc..

[Zachman]

Not as much as you! I'd love a tc2290 etc but for now the nova delay and d2 really do cover off my needs (considering I have a timefactor due to arrive any day as well).. Next on the list will be a harmoniser but that is a scary proposition as I cannot see a way to get one without having to go through customs crap and taxation and fees etc..

 

Congrats on your new addition to your gear family.

 

The D2 is a very nice sounding delay, as is the Nova. The Harmonizers are fun, and unfortunately costly. Literally I wanted one for 20 years and have only had one since July 2006. I'd played through a few and used them in the studio, but never owned my own, and then... the time came that I was able to get one. All things in God's time.