Hooking up G-Force into my VH4S, GCX and GCP help!! :)

[sean106ESP]

Ok so I have a VH4S, a GCX and a GCpro. I use the GCpro right now just to switch channels on the VH4S. Now I have the Midi thru connected to the back of the midi of the G-Force.

 

Can some one please walk me through what to do next. I can't seem to get the GCP to recognize any FX, with doing waht the manual says. The manual seems so geared towards just using it as a FX processor, whereas I want to be able to switch channels and FX with the GCX and GCP. Possible?

 

Also is it not enough that I have a midi connection between the VH4S and G-Force? Do I then need to run 1/4 cables from the G-Force to the Vh4S?

 

Sorry for the noob questions. I just never owned a FX processor, I always used stomp boxes into the loops of the GCX.

 

Thanks in advance everybody!!

[sacredgroove]

Midi is nothing more than a protocol--communication between devices, if you will. Your current set up of VH4/G-Force defeats any use of the GCX, unless you want to use the input buffer or completely take the G-Force out of the signal path altogether when not in use. Your past posts have indicated using multiple amps and utilizing the GCX to switch between them.

 

You'll need 1/4" cables to get in/out of the VH4/G-Force via serial loop. The serial loop will allow you to use everything in the G-Force most efficiently.

 

More than likely, you had to choose a number (1-16) for a midi ch on the VH4. If not, it's probably set for omni, then you'll need to choose a number for that and set it up to receive midi. Do the same for the G-Force, but the numbers you choose shouldn't match (i.e. VH4 ch16; G-Force ch15).

 

Once the midi channels are establised, follow the GCPro manual for setting up individual devices midi ch's, so it knows what and when to "say" to the respective device. At this point, you should be able to select any GCPro button and see the G-Force change presets. I'll assume you're set with the VH4 and switching ch's per your original post, although, now it is switching via a designated midi ch. (if it weren't before).

 

I believe the next step would be to try and save a preset to the GCPro containing a VH4 ch and G-Force preset.

 

Hope this helps.

Scott

[sean106ESP]

Hey thanks as always man! Yeah I am using the GCX and GCPro set to Midi 16 to switch channels on the VH4S. I will tackle the other three amps at a latter time

 

So I guess in a nut shell, should my G-Force be even going through the Diezel Thru into G-Force via midi cable? because what I am thinking is...the front of the VH4S has a on off for presets if you want the "parallel" loop on or off. I with serial it is on and affecting all channels. So would it make sense to run the cables from the G-Force to the Parallel loop instead of serial.....so I can say......make a preset at GC Pro bank ch 8 for example of Channel VH4 CH4......find my effect like delay on the G-force.....turn on the parallel loop of the VH4....save...and then the channel change and effect is saved at channel 8?

 

Thanks so much as always man!!:thu:

 

Sean

[sacredgroove]

The midi cable chain should just be a daisy chain from one piece to the next, starting from the switcher. It doesn't matter which is first.

 

If you plan to use the comp and gate, then use the serial loop. If not then use the parallel loop. If there is a "kill dry" feature, like the G-Major, then activate it. If the parallel loop is programmable from ch to ch on the vh4, then I'd say program them how you'd like, depending on the preset or effect you're using or not using. For the serial loop, I suppose you could leave them all on and create a "bypass" preset in the G-Force for if and when you don't want fx. Make sense?

 

Scott

[sean106ESP]

The midi cable chain should just be a daisy chain from one piece to the next, starting from the switcher. It doesn't matter which is first. If you plan to use the comp and gate, then use the serial loop. If not then use the parallel loop. If there is a "kill dry" feature, like the G-Major, then activate it. If the parallel loop is programmable from ch to ch on the vh4, then I'd say program them how you'd like, depending on the preset or effect you're using or not using. For the serial loop, I suppose you could leave them all on and create a "bypass" preset in the G-Force for if and when you don't want fx. Make sense? Scott

 

I think so . I am going to have more time to fiddle with it tomorrow so of course more questions LOL. But I am thinking of using the parallel loop, as the VH4S has a on off you can program on the head whether you want the loop on or off and save it to a pre-set. I really just want to use the Chorus, flang, delay, reverbs, and perhaps down the road play around with the rest and explorer. The most important thing to me know is to get a killer chorus (metallica fanboy) tone, and a delay tone for lead channel. My rhythm channel I like left alone. My cleans are the most important to me.

 

here are some examples of the clean chorus I am trying to achieve. I did this with my Roland Jc-120 head and a Boogie cab. I find that combing a chorus (or two) and a little flange really get's me that tone. In these clips it is a simple boss super chorus going through the GCX into the Roland also with the chorus on.

 

Clip 1

 

Clip 2

 

Clip 3

 

 

Clip 4

Clip 5

 

Clip 4

 

 

Thanks as always man!!

[sacredgroove]

Hope it works out for ya.

 

I like the 1st clip 4. The tone fits that riff really good for me.

 

Scott

[sean106ESP]

Thanks man! Yeah I am gonna try my best to figure it out today, so I am sure i will be back as usual with questions

[petejt]

The GCX has 8 loops. They can be used for multiple things- switching relays (channel switching), loops for effects pedals, heaps of things.

 

 

To send the guitar signal to your three amps, you need to first, get a Y- splitter cable.

 

Select three loops to be the ones that will send the guitar signal to each amp.

 

For argument's sake, say you also want your Boss CH-1 in front of the Diezel, for clean sounds.

 

That means you will need four loops. Say 1, 2, 3 & 4.

 

Get a normal cable, and connect it from the "Feed Thru" on the BACK (or the 2nd outlet socket), and connect it to Loop 1's Input/N.O. socket.

 

Connect a cable to Loop 1's SEND socket, and connect that to your CH-1.

 

Connect the Output of the CH-1 to the RETURN of Loop 1.

 

Connect the Output/N.C. socket of Loop 1, to the Input/N.O. socket of Loop 2.

 

Connect the SEND if Loop 2 to the input of the Diezel VH4S.

 

 

 

Okay, that's one amp hooked up .

 

 

Next, get that Y-splitter cable I told you about earlier.

 

Connect that Y cable to the other Guitar Out on the back of the GCX.

 

Connect one of the 'forks' of the Y-cable to the Input/N.O. of Loop 3.

 

Connect the other 'fork' to the Input/N.O. of Loop 4.

 

 

Connect the SEND of Loop 3 to the Input of your Engl SE.

 

Connect the SEND of Loop 4 to the Input of your Roland Jazz Chorus.

 

 

 

DONE!

 

 

Now, to programme....

 

 

Loop 1 + Loop 2 = Diezel w/chorus

 

Loop 1 = Diezel w/o chorus

 

Loop 3 = Engl SE

 

Loop 4 = Roland Jazz Chorus

 

Loop 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 = chorused Diezel + Rngl + Roland.

 

 

 

Remember, that this just switches the effects you will patch in front of the amps, and switches the signal to the AMPS, not their channels. With this hookup, you can run all of the amps at the same time, or just one amp, or two, or one with the effects in front of that particular amp, etc.

 

 

Let me know if you need help.

 

 

I hope I am some help to you mate.

[sean106ESP]

Thanks man! very helpful indeed.

 

For a second let's forget about the 3 amps, or even the Diezel

 

But now I just want to get FX through one amp and I realized the Diezel VH4S is stereo so it has multiple send and returns for each side.

 

So I switched to using my ENGL SE. Now I got it set and told GC pro that a G-Force is present. (It asked me yes or no).

 

So now, I am controlling channels 1,2,3,4 with the bottom 4 buttons. I have the wires from the G-Force and GCX into the FX return like the diagram shows me and the FX parallel loops set to on, on each channel to access the G-Force coming into the ENGL

 

I can see now that the 1-8 buttons on the top now look like the go light up when you want an effect there, but I am not getting an effects. Just channel switching at the bottom 4 buttons, but like I said the other buttons 1-8 will light up and stay on when I press them or off when I press again, as if I was turning on effects, but I am not getting any effects. Even when I try to just press chorus on the front of the G-Force, it won't light up Chorus on the G-Force. I am following the Diagrams properly. I wonder what I am doing wrong. I have a feeling it is in the I/o set up

 

Any ideas guys? Thanks so much for your help!

[Zachman]

Thanks man! very helpful indeed. For a second let's forget about the 3 amps, or even the Diezel But now I just want to get FX through one amp and I realized the Diezel VH4S is stereo so it has multiple send and returns for each side. So I switched to using my ENGL SE . Now I got it set and told GC pro that a G-Force is present. (It asked me yes or no). So now, I am controlling channels 1,2,3,4 with the bottom 4 buttons. I have the wires from the G-Force and GCX into the FX return like the diagram shows me and the FX parallel loops set to on , on each channel to access the G-Force coming into the ENGL I can see now that the 1-8 buttons on the top now look like the go light up when you want an effect there, but I am not getting an effects. Just channel switching at the bottom 4 buttons, but like I said the other buttons 1-8 will light up and stay on when I press them or off when I press again, as if I was turning on effects, but I am not getting any effects. Even when I try to just press chorus on the front of the G-Force, it won't light up Chorus on the G-Force. I am following the Diagrams properly. I wonder what I am doing wrong. I have a feeling it is in the I/o set up Any ideas guys? Thanks so much for your help!

 

Looks like you still need to assign midi CC#'s to the effect blocks in the G-Force, to assign direct access switches for each effect block for your patches.

 

If I were setting up your setup, I'd use the bottom row of buttons for my presets (Selecting your amp, channels, G-Force presets- w/ one button press), and use the other direct access buttons on the Ground Control Pro, for real time Direct Access switches for your individual effect blocks, in the G-Force, amp selection and amp channel selection.

 

This is a pic of my floor controller to show the layout that I am talking about:

 

 

Also recommend you set the effects in the G-Force to Series (more prominent effect), and set the I/O to Consumer mode as opposed to Pro.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Best of luck

 

Zach

[sean106ESP]

Hi Zach! Thanks for the reply. I think I have it set up right,, but still getting no effects in my audio. I only am doing this one amp, so forget about the 3 amp thing I posted before.

 

I have posted so much and am going crazy to get this to work.

Can you tell me

1 What exact I/O settings I need to set it to (as there are so many and being a midi noob, I have no idea what half of them are

2 Since i have the midi cable going to the amp and thru the amp to the G-Force I can change channels and presets but no sfx signal can be heard. Could you please tell me how to hook it up from the back? I tried all the serial and parallel loops and still no effects in my audio.

 

Here is a vid I made to show the problem, as maybe it is easier to see it than just read it.

 

Video:

http://blip.tv/file/679712

 

Thanks so much in advance!!

[Zachman]

Hi Zach! Thanks for the reply. I think I have it set up right,, but still getting no effects in my audio. I only am doing this one amp, so forget about the 3 amp thing I posted before. I have posted so much and am going crazy to get this to work. Can you tell me 1 What exact I/O settings I need to set it to (as there are so many and being a midi noob, I have no idea what half of them are 2 Since i have the midi cable going to the amp and thru the amp to the G-Force I can change channels and presets but no sfx signal can be heard. Could you please tell me how to hook it up from the back? I tried all the serial and parallel loops and still no effects in my audio. Here is a vid I made to show the problem, as maybe it is easier to see it than just read it. Video: http://blip.tv/file/679712 Thanks so much in advance!!

 

ok... This ought to do it for you

 

* Guitar into front of GCX

* Rear of gcx out to front of amp

* send of loop 1 on gcx to input of g-Force

* output of G-Force to return of loop 1 on gcx

* fx loop send of amp into loop 1 audio in on gcx

* gcx loop 1 audio out into amp fx loop return

 

EDIT: I like this 2nd way better

 

OR:

 

* Guitar into amp

* send of loop 1 on gcx to input of g-Force

* output of G-Force to return of loop 1 on gcx

* fx loop send of amp into loop 1 audio in on gcx

* gcx loop 1 audio out into amp fx loop return

 

Let me know if you have success w/ this.

 

When going into the midi I/O of the G-Force, you have either pro level or consumer level as your choices. Select consumer, and press store on the G-Force.

[sean106ESP]

ok gonna go try it right now!! Be back Thanks my man!

[Zachman]

ok gonna go try it right now!! Be back Thanks my man!

 

well, you've been gone for a while now, so I am hoping that it's working for you and you are off in tone land having a good time.

 

Enjoy

[sean106ESP]

Thanks Zach

 

 

Got it working now. Problem was this.

1 one bad cable. It was some weird stereo tip cable I had once when I thought I was trying to send stereo signals way back. Just ignor

2 The ENGL has 3 FX loops

1 Serial sounded like poo poo

2 Parrallel 1 No worky

3 Parallell 2 WORKY!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Love it. I don't know why people think because it is a high end TC that it is too much for a non pro. In 1 minute I dialed a patch and saved a dope tone with a advanced chorus, little flange and slight delay. Sounds dope.

 

So all in all really excited now to slowely dig into the other effects and learn more how to utilize things I never used before like pitch shifting, compressors limiters, etc. I was so used to just chorus, delay and flanger pedals!

 

:lol::lol::lol:

[sacredgroove]

Right on. Have fun.

 

Scott

[sean106ESP]

Thanks man, you all helped me a lot. Much appreciated!!

[Zachman]

Thanks Zach Got it working now. Problem was this. 1 one bad cable. It was some weird stereo tip cable I had once when I thought I was trying to send stereo signals way back. Just ignor 2 The ENGL has 3 FX loops 1 Serial sounded like poo poo 2 Parrallel 1 No worky 3 Parallell 2 WORKY!!!!!!!!!!!! Love it. I don't know why people think because it is a high end TC that it is too much for a non pro. In 1 minute I dialed a patch and saved a dope tone with a advanced chorus, little flange and slight delay. Sounds dope. So all in all really excited now to slowely dig into the other effects and learn more how to utilize things I never used before like pitch shifting, compressors limiters, etc. I was so used to just chorus, delay and flanger pedals! :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Congrats!!!! Have fun.

[sean106ESP]

Congrats!!!! Have fun.

 

Thanks Zack.

 

can you comment on getting the Jc-force to get me that clean fanboy Metallica tone like a JC-120 and what ever else he uses? I find my JC-120 head with a boss super chorus gets me that thick meaty marbly clean tone. My Diezel VH4S with the G-Force sounds close with the chorus, but i was wondering if you had some advice on settings for the chorus, and adding other FX in the chain to get there (like any filters, phaser, trem settings etc)

 

thanks man!!

 

My rack is coming together. I got a Furman PL II, a BBE 362, GCX, and the Gforce going into the Diezel VH4S. Sounds sick!!! Video coming soon I am editing it to make a G-Force demo vid. I make a ton of tone test vids and guitar test vids if you wanna watch. Look up on you tube the user name sean106alcon. Thanks again!!:lol::lol:

[sacredgroove]

Try adding the Dual Detune to the chorus. By itself, it gets a chorus type effect.

 

Scott

[sean106ESP]

Thanks man. Siemon suggested that too. I tried it behind it but it sounded a little weird like some sort of weird delay.

 

I am surprised the G-Force wont let you put a flang after the CHO.

[Zachman]

I think in order to get the effect/affect you really want, you'll need to run stereo. Recommend a compressor 4:1 ratio, delay around 400mS (mix around 25%), along w/ a detune (slight) and chorus (depth high, rate low) mix higher than the delay

 

Thanks Zack. can you comment on getting the Jc-force to get me that clean fanboy Metallica tone like a JC-120 and what ever else he uses? I find my JC-120 head with a boss super chorus gets me that thick meaty marbly clean tone. My Diezel VH4S with the G-Force sounds close with the chorus, but i was wondering if you had some advice on settings for the chorus, and adding other FX in the chain to get there (like any filters, phaser, trem settings etc) thanks man!! My rack is coming together. I got a Furman PL II, a BBE 362, GCX, and the Gforce going into the Diezel VH4S. Sounds sick!!! Video coming soon I am editing it to make a G-Force demo vid. I make a ton of tone test vids and guitar test vids if you wanna watch. Look up on you tube the user name sean106alcon. Thanks again!! :lol: :lol:

[sean106ESP]

thanks my man! Will try tonight after work

[petejt]

can you comment on getting the Jc-force to get me that clean fanboy Metallica tone like a JC-120 and what ever else he uses? I find my JC-120 head with a boss super chorus gets me that thick meaty marbly clean tone. My Diezel VH4S with the G-Force sounds close with the chorus, but i was wondering if you had some advice on settings for the chorus, and adding other FX in the chain to get there (like any filters, phaser, trem settings etc)

 

I think James Hetfield just uses the "Fixed Chorus" setting on the JC-120, the mids aren't set too high (almost a scooped-mid setting), treble fairly bright, a little bass. Also too a big part of it is that he runs his TriAxis on the MarkIV clean (green mode?) setting. Not sure what those settings are though, sorry.

 

Another thing- James' chorused clean tone doesn't really sound "chorused". It is VERY light-sounding, much thinner chorus effect than how the JC-120 usually sounds. On Metallica demo recordings the chorused effect of the JC-120 comes through more strongly (as it usually does on the JC-120 in general), but I guess by running the TriAxis at the same time, kind of masks the chorused effect. Pity though as I particuarly love chorus, and would go all gooey inside if I heard Hetfield play a nice swirly chorused clean tone (actually I feel that way whenever ANYONE plays a nice swirly chorused clean tone, including myself).

[petejt]

Bleeding Me is actually more of a phaser effect (possibly Lovetone Doppelganger on the Load album), likely from his TC Electronic G-Major, rather than a chorus effect. Athough there might be some chorus added as well.