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Rack guys, what's the most effective way to run FX in my unit?


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I spoke to Zachman in regards to this, and he's helped me A LOT.

 

I told him that I didn't really want to color my signal using the FX and to retain my tone.

 

He told me to use a W/D setup using a line mixer and two channels of my VHT power amp.

 

The only downside I see with this setup would be that only half of the speaker will do effect and the other half will do the actual preamp.

 

I use a CAE +3 SE preamp and I have no FX loops.

 

I'm looking at some of the best options for me, how do you guys run your FX?

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I spoke to Zachman in regards to this, and he's helped me A LOT.


I told him that I didn't really want to color my signal using the FX and to retain my tone.


He told me to use a W/D setup using a line mixer and two channels of my VHT power amp.


The only downside I see with this setup would be that only half of the speaker will do effect and the other half will do the actual preamp.


I use a CAE +3 SE preamp and I have no FX loops.


I'm looking at some of the best options for me, how do you guys run your FX?

 

 

I forgot what your speaker configuration is, but you could use 1 cab for the dry signal, and a separate cabinet for the wet (1x12, 2x12, or 4x12).

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With a line mixer and a stereo cab, it doesn't have to be W/D side by side within the same cab. It could also be "layered" in stereo.
:cool:

 

This is what I suggested in a different thread and it's how I run my rig.

 

Preamp out 1 -> line mixer (panned center)

Preamp out 2 -> FX

FX stereo out -> line mixer (panned l & r)

Line mixer stereo out -> power amp stereo in

power amp stereo outs -> cab l & r

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This is what I suggested in a different thread and it's how I run my rig.


Preamp out 1 -> line mixer (panned center)

Preamp out 2 -> FX

FX stereo out -> line mixer (panned l & r)

Line mixer stereo out -> power amp stereo in

power amp stereo outs -> cab l & r

 

Doesn't the CAE only have one functional out at a time?

 

Or I can use the main and the ground together?

 

I'm horrid at mods, so I won't be doing any. :cop:

 

I'm running 2 4x12 Stereo Cabs, and will be ordering a G-Force for fx.

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Doesn't the CAE only have one functional out at a time?


Or I can use the main and the ground together?


I'm horrid at mods, so I won't be doing any.
:cop:

I'm running 2 4x12 Stereo Cabs, and will be ordering a G-Force for fx.

 

;) Here is how Bradshaw suggests you do it:

 

CAElinemixerschematic.jpg

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I use a rack-mount mixer (Yamaha MV802) and run effects like you would in a PA. It's cheap, it sounds good, and you get excellent control over everything.

 

The main signal goes into one channel of the mixer and back out, so it's not going through any effectors. The effects come in through other mixer channels and are added in.

 

As long as I use the balanced outs of the mixer (600 ohm with an XLR-->phone cable) the dry tone is the same as without the mixer.

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I use a rack-mount mixer (Yamaha MV802) and run effects like you would in a PA. It's cheap, it sounds good, and you get excellent control over everything.


The main signal goes into one channel of the mixer and back out, so it's not going through any effectors. The effects come in through other mixer channels and are added in.


As long as I use the balanced outs of the mixer (600 ohm with an XLR-->phone cable) the dry tone is the same as without the mixer.

 

 

What are you actually running? (Effects, amps, cabs, controller) Yamaha mv802 is typically used by keyboard players.

 

XLR to phone cable???

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What are you actually running? (Effects, amps, cabs, controller) Yamaha mv802 is typically used by keyboard players.


XLR to phone cable???

 

 

Pics are at the end of the "post your rack" thread.

 

Two Rocktron Piranhas for preamps (one for high gain, one for low with a remote a/b relay), a bunch of ARTs and Alesis Midiverbs (though most are turned off most of the time--I bring them in as needed rather than burying everything). The dry signal doesn't go through any effects--the effect outs come back in through the MV802's other channels. Makes it nice--I can mix them just like a PA for level and fading.

 

Everything's through the MV80s, then into a Boogie 395 running two "floor wedges" (2x12 floor cabs loaded with Sheffield 1290s). Divider-tap off the 395's output to drive PA heads (CS800x's) that drive 12 4x12's.

 

Yeah, the MV802 seems an odd choice, but it works quite well. I've tried using some other mixers with poor results . . . I think with a distorted guitar signal (right from the preamp) you need more bandwidth than you'd need for other stuff. Or something. Whatever, the MV802 has worked where other mixers have sucked my tone so I've stuck with it. Plus they're cheap on ebay! Woo hoo!

 

It also has a VCA (voltace controlled amplifier) that lets you set the master volume with an expression pedal. I have one on my pedalboard so I can set volume from my playing position with my feet (rather than twiddle a knob) while I'm playing or during soundcheck. Really like that one. I can turn down to practice volume or up to earth-shattering without taking my hands off the guitar and there's no volume pedal in the signal path--it's all through the VCA on the MV802.

 

I do the same thing in my acoustic rack. I have an acoustic stand, and the VCA out lets me turn the acoustic down or off with my foot when I switch back to electric.

 

The XLR-->phone cable thing is so that I can use the low impedance outputs of the amp (the balanced ones that usually are used via a mic cable to drive PA amps) rather than the line out (that uses the usual 1/4" cable). For some reason the 395 doesn't like the high impedance line out--it totally screwed the tone, made it buzzy and nasty. I made a cable so that I could take the low-impedance out from the mixer (the XLR out of the mixer is 600ohm. Not sure what the high impedance is) to the amplifier input and everything was peachy . . . I could AB the preamp to amp connection with and without the mixer and there was no difference. I'm not entirely sure what's going on there--I've been told by People Who Know that the impedance should make no difference, but it absolutely does.

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Pics are at the end of the "post your rack" thread.


Two Rocktron Piranhas for preamps (one for high gain, one for low with a remote a/b relay), a bunch of ARTs and Alesis Midiverbs (though most are turned off most of the time--I bring them in as needed rather than burying everything). The dry signal doesn't go through any effects--the effect outs come back in through the MV802's other channels. Makes it nice--I can mix them just like a PA for level and fading.


Everything's through the MV80s, then into a Boogie 395 running two "floor wedges" (2x12 floor cabs loaded with Sheffield 1290s). Divider-tap off the 395's output to drive PA heads (CS800x's) that drive 12 4x12's.


Yeah, the MV802 seems an odd choice, but it works quite well. I've tried using some other mixers with poor results . . . I think with a distorted guitar signal (right from the preamp) you need more bandwidth than you'd need for other stuff. Or something. Whatever, the MV802 has worked where other mixers have sucked my tone so I've stuck with it. Plus they're cheap on ebay! Woo hoo!


It also has a VCA (voltace controlled amplifier) that lets you set the master volume with an expression pedal. I have one on my pedalboard so I can set volume from my playing position with my feet (rather than twiddle a knob) while I'm playing or during soundcheck. Really like that one. I can turn down to practice volume or up to earth-shattering without taking my hands off the guitar and there's no volume pedal in the signal path--it's all through the VCA on the MV802.


I do the same thing in my acoustic rack. I have an acoustic stand, and the VCA out lets me turn the acoustic down or off with my foot when I switch back to electric.


The XLR-->phone cable thing is so that I can use the low impedance outputs of the amp (the balanced ones that usually are used via a mic cable to drive PA amps) rather than the line out (that uses the usual 1/4" cable). For some reason the 395 doesn't like the high impedance line out--it totally screwed the tone, made it buzzy and nasty. I made a cable so that I could take the low-impedance out from the mixer (the XLR out of the mixer is 600ohm. Not sure what the high impedance is) to the amplifier input and everything was peachy . . . I could AB the preamp to amp connection with and without the mixer and there was no difference. I'm not entirely sure what's going on there--I've been told by People Who Know that the impedance should make no difference, but it absolutely does.

 

 

Why take a tap off the 395 to drive the "PA heads", as opposed to taking a tap from where the 395 is being fed from the audio source?

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Why take a tap off the 395 to drive the "PA heads", as opposed to taking a tap from where the 395 is being fed from the audio source?

 

 

The 395 is all tube, and the tubes interact with the speakers differently than a solid state head will. I wanted the tube sound to be passed through to the PA heads, so I can't take the 395's input side--that's before the power head hits the speakers. It would be the same as plugging directly into the soid state heads, without having the 395 in the chain at all.

 

You can get a decent sound by plugging directly into solid state heads, but I never liked it. Maybe it's a taste thing, but tubes drive speakers differently since they're current based rather than voltage based (like a solid state head).

 

I wanted the tube sound from the PA heads as well--tapping off the speakers (with a divider--NEVER attach this directly) sends the actual signal that's happening between the 395 and the speakers to the PA heads, and it sounds like I have 3,600 watts of tube.

 

I used a 330 ohm and a 33 ohm resister in the divider--it's something I saw on an old Sundown head and I've copied it ever since. It takes the speaker output and brings it down to a line level. IMPORTANT NOTICE: You still have to have a speaker plugged in! This is NOT a replacement for the speaker! Leave the speaker out and you'll fry your tube head!

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The 395 is all tube, and the tubes interact with the speakers differently than a solid state head will. I wanted the tube sound to be passed through to the PA heads, so I can't take the 395's input side--that's before the power head hits the speakers. It would be the same as plugging directly into the soid state heads, without having the 395 in the chain at all.


You can get a decent sound by plugging directly into solid state heads, but I never liked it. Maybe it's a taste thing, but tubes drive speakers differently since they're current based rather than voltage based (like a solid state head).


I wanted the tube sound from the PA heads as well--tapping off the speakers (with a divider--NEVER attach this directly) sends the actual signal that's happening between the 395 and the speakers to the PA heads, and it sounds like I have 3,600 watts of tube.


I used a 330 ohm and a 33 ohm resister in the divider--it's something I saw on an old Sundown head and I've copied it ever since. It takes the speaker output and brings it down to a line level. IMPORTANT NOTICE: You still have to have a speaker plugged in! This is NOT a replacement for the speaker! Leave the speaker out and you'll fry your tube head!

 

Okay...

 

I like my 395 too :thu:

 

stuff016.jpg

 

Similar idea to how I run my Bradshaw Amp switcher. I run 4 heads (1 at a time) in a W/D/W setup... Each head (Middle Dry) powering the same 4x12 cabinet. The amp Swither then also takes the load level of the head and taps off a parallel line level signal and feed the processors via a Switching system, which then routes the signal to where I need it to go.

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Okay...


I like my 395 too
:thu:

stuff016.jpg

Similar idea to how I run my Bradshaw Amp switcher. I run 4 heads (1 at a time) in a W/D/W setup... Each head (Middle Dry) powering the same 4x12 cabinet. The amp Swither then also takes the load level of the head and taps off a parallel line level signal and feed the processors via a Switching system, which then routes the signal to where I need it to go.

 

The 395 does rock, doesn't it? I have fun with it in Class A-only mode for recording.

 

I have a smaller practice rig with a 50/50 and I didn't want to drop the cash for a second 395, but it just pissed me off every time I played through it and I finally had to bite the bullet and get a second one.

 

Switching on the cab level with tube heads always made me nervous . . . I never had the stones to try it. Have you ever had any problems with it?

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The 395 does rock, doesn't it? I have fun with it in Class A-only mode for recording.


I have a smaller practice rig with a 50/50 and I didn't want to drop the cash for a second 395, but it just pissed me off every time I played through it and I finally had to bite the bullet and get a second one.


Switching on the cab level with tube heads always made me nervous . . . I never had the stones to try it. Have you ever had any problems with it?

 

No problems at all. Bob Bradshaw- The guy who invented Switching systems for guitar rigs, has been building these things for years for National Touring rigs for TOP guys and those guys can't afford to have their gear going down in the middle of a tour, so he definitely does it right. :thu:

 

Check it out:

 

http://www.customaudioelectronics.com/amp_selectors.htm

 

If you'll notice the bottom unit in my rig you'll see a pic of mine:

 

NAMMpics022.jpg

 

NAMMpics019.jpg

 

Ya, I LOVE the 395, and the VHT 2150... GREAT amps

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