Yamaha IV series question

[dvst8tion]

I just purchased and love the yamaha s115iv's, they sound great but we need more volume. I've have been borrowing another set of 15's AC (something generics) to give us more sound, here is the question, i'm thinking of getting another set of the yamaha's but unsure if I sould get another set of 15's or should I go with the S112iv's? any Ideas here. the vocals seem to be pretty crips already, but would it sould better if I ran the 2 12's and 2 15's. Then latter plan on running 2 s118ivs subs and crossover. We play Rock music, but still want a good sounding mix. Then I can give back those other 15's I have been borrowing.

 

We are micing everything

2 guitarists

1 bass player

3 vocals

dums

 

its sounds pretty good now, I want subs NOW but what to get my regular volume up first then i'll worry about the low end volume.

 

our last 3 shows have been outside and went pretty good. I just want some good volume and good mix going.

[tlbonehead]

Originally posted by dvst8tion I just purchased and love the yamaha s115iv's, they sound great but we need more volume. I've have been borrowing another set of 15's AC (something generics) to give us more sound, here is the question, i'm thinking of getting another set of the yamaha's but unsure if I sould get another set of 15's or should I go with the S112iv's? any Ideas here. the vocals seem to be pretty crips already, but would it sould better if I ran the 2 12's and 2 15's. Then latter plan on running 2 s118ivs subs and crossover. We play Rock music, but still want a good sounding mix. Then I can give back those other 15's I have been borrowing. We are micing everything 2 guitarists 1 bass player 3 vocals dums its sounds pretty good now, I want subs NOW but what to get my regular volume up first then i'll worry about the low end volume. our last 3 shows have been outside and went pretty good. I just want some good volume and good mix going.

If you add subs now,you will be able to pull that bottom octave out of your mid/high cabs,which will give you a lot more headroom there. That will equate to the ability to be louder through them. That would be my first step.

[flanc]

 

I've have been borrowing another set of 15's AC (something generics) to give us more sound,

 

 

Not a very good idea in general. If you add unlike speakers in the same bandpass, you'll end up with all kinds of problems that will end up muddying up your sound more than making it louder.

 

Ad tlbonehead said, get the subs now and it will make the top boxes more efficient.

[abzurd]

I will add that buying 2 more top boxes (4 total) and then buying 2 of those Yamaha front load 18" subs will yield an unbalanced sound that lacks low end.

 

Also, those aren't my favorite sub, front load or otherwise. They are all particle board. That makes them heavy and not very durable. I have a friend who ran a few of those 5-8 times a month and after the first year they started shaking apart. Screws easily strip in particle board. They ended up being held together with many extra screws and had a lot of rattle to them. Also, people tend to use the subs as coffee tables to hold their drinks while dancing. If beer spills on them, they will tend to swell and start to fall apart. There are several moderately priced plywood construction boxes out there. Also, you may want to look at quasi horn loaded designs (like Yorkville Pulse and Elite). You'll get higher efficiency and more "boom" for your buck.

 

The particle board thing is not as big a deal in top boxes as they are off the ground and running higher frequencies. Just keep them dry and be nice to them.

[dvst8tion]

So getting some subs and a Rack mounted crossover, would be a better Idea? No 12's?

 

Any good 18's that you guys know of around the same price range as the Yamaha's. 3-400 each? That would sound good with the yamaha s115iv's.

 

don't you want to go

High's

mids's

low end.

 

i'm new to this and don't want a muddy mix.

[tlbonehead]

Originally posted by dvst8tion So getting some subs and a Rack mounted crossover, would be a better Idea? No 12's? Any good 18's that you guys know of around the same price range as the Yamaha's. 3-400 each? That would sound good with the yamaha s115iv's. don't you want to go High's mids's low end. i'm new to this and don't want a muddy mix.

Highs and mids are in the same cab. They have a horn and a woofer crossed over internally. BTW,I have a pair of Sonic 18" scoops for sale if you are interested. They are the older model of these with 400 watt RMS cast frame 8 ohm Eminence drivers. PM me if you are.http://sonicspeaker.com/djx1800sub.htm

[agedhorse]

 

Originally posted by abzurd I will add that buying 2 more top boxes (4 total) and then buying 2 of those Yamaha front load 18" subs will yield an unbalanced sound that lacks low end.

 

Not necissarily... it really depends on both the x-over frequency, efficiency of the sub and the amount of sub required for the music being reproduced.

 

For example, in my old touring A system (4 way), I used 1 Meyer 2x18" sub for every 4 top boxes for most music. The subs were very efficeint at about 103 dB/1W/1M, the top cabinets were 100dB/1W/1M, plus they crossed over at about 80Hz, so as far as power-bandwidth goes, the system was very well balanced for all but really bass-heavy music.

[abzurd]

I've heard those Yamaha's. They are OK, but aren't super efficient and are front loads. These things are no where near in the same league as a double Meyer sub.

 

For the amateur running MI equipment I think it would be tricky. The tendancy would be to crank it all up. Also, have to know what you are doing when running multiple tops. For instance, those Yammies are 90 degree horizontal coverage. Running multiples on each side may not sound that great. Those really aren't the boxes to be running multiples of. They are pretty much single "speakers on sticks" set up.

[tlbonehead]

Originally posted by agedhorse Not necissarily... it really depends on both the x-over frequency, efficiency of the sub and the amount of sub required for the music being reproduced. For example, in my old touring A system (4 way), I used 1 Meyer 2x18" sub for every 4 top boxes for most music. The subs were very efficeint at about 103 dB/1W/1M, the top cabinets were 100dB/1W/1M, plus they crossed over at about 80Hz, so as far as power-bandwidth goes, the system was very well balanced for all but really bass-heavy music.

But he was referring specifically to those 18" Yam subs which,I believe are about 97db,and are 250 watt RMS rated. Not quite Meyer league.

[dvst8tion]

so what subs should I use with them?

 

under 400 each.

[abzurd]

The following is from an email I got from AUDIOEAST. These would work nicely! 102 dB efficiency, plywood, not too big, better power handling, 2 yr NO FAULT warranty. IMO, MUCH better boom for the buck.

 

 

2 NEW Yorkville TS18H Scratch and dent - 600 watt 18" Sub - $375 Each these are still new with warranty but have a couple of scratches on them.......

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Audio East

11 Broadway Rd

Dracut Ma 01826

(978) 937-3944

www.audioeast.com

sales@audioeast.com

 

[agedhorse]

Originally posted by abzurd The following is from an email I got from AUDIOEAST . These would work nicely! 102 dB efficiency, plywood, not too big, better power handling, 2 yr NO FAULT warranty. IMO, MUCH better boom for the buck. 2 NEW Yorkville TS18H Scratch and dent - 600 watt 18" Sub - $375 Each these are still new with warranty but have a couple of scratches on them....... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Audio East 11 Broadway Rd Dracut Ma 01826 (978) 937-3944 www.audioeast.com sales@audioeast.com

 

And the efficiency should be quite decent too.

[whsjosh]

Jdvst8tion, just for your reference....

 

My band is 5 piece (3 vocals, 2 electric guitars, 2 acoustic guitars, a bass and an acoustic drum set), and I think my band is similar to yours. We play country rock mostly with moderate volume.

 

Our FOH speakers are all Yamaha - a pair of MS400s & SW500s-. Our system is loud enough for 50-200 indoor with all instruments mic'd/DI'd. And sounds really nice.

 

The MS400 is 15"+ 2" with 300W(LF)+100W(HF) built-in amps (124.5dB/m 400W ). the SW500 is front loaded 15" with 500W built-in amp w/ built-in crossover (122dB/m 500W). I think they (MS400 & SW500) match very well, and also S115 will match very well, too. I guess SW500 is well-tuned with MS400, MS300 and S115.

 

I don't see any reviews of SW500 here, but I've heard good impression from my friend who has a pair of S118s. He just hates the sound and enclosure-rattlings of his S118s. Personaly, I've never compared SW500 to S118, but he really loves my SW500s. He stoped using his subs and instead he always ask me renting my subs these days...

 

Like everybody says, adding a pair of decent subs, which will match to your top speakers, will improve your sound quality and total volume.

 

Just my 0.2 yen...

 

YOSHI

[dvst8tion]

Thanks for all the input, people I really love this forum, I'm not going to get the yamaha 118iv's anymore. I'm kinda looking at those yorkviles or maybee those sw500. thanks for not letting me burn money for junk.

[abzurd]

If you have $900 to spend on each sub DO NOT get that Yamaha. Yorkville has a high powered horn loaded 18" for under $800 DELIVERED. It's better in every way and 137 dB max compared to 122. Considering the amp is built in, this thing seems like a steal. Here's the blurb about it.

 

 

A single 18-inch speaker in rear horn loaded cabinet with a 1500 watts of integrated power. XLR and 1/4-inch TRS inputs that can handle both speaker and line level sources, a tunable low pass filter,and a user definable 50Hz boost.

The power section of the LS800P active subwoofer has an ingenious input / output system. XLR balanced inputs as well as TRS 1/4-inch balanced ins make sure you can get into the LS800P from any source. 1/4-inch inputs will support either line level or speaker level source signal.

[RickJ]

Originally posted by dvst8tion thanks for not letting me burn money for junk.

I wouldn't call the Yammies junk. They are actually very good subs when used within their limits.

 

They have their place. Their place just happens to be smaller than the ones you'll be playing.

 

Ya gets what ya pays for.

[agedhorse]

 

Originally posted by whsjosh Jdvst8tion, just for your reference.... The MS400 is 15"+ 2" with 300W(LF)+100W(HF) built-in amps (124.5dB/m 400W ). the SW500 is front loaded 15" with 500W built-in amp w/ built-in crossover (122dB/m 500W). I think they (MS400 & SW500) match very well, and also S115 will match very well, too. I guess SW500 is well-tuned with MS400, MS300 and S115. YOSHI

 

Just a clarification here, and calling attention to the trend for manufacturer's calling things somethingthat they really are not.

 

Yamaha refers to the HF drivers as 2" drivers, but upon examination of the more detailed specs, they are really 1" exit with a 2" V.C diameter which is nothing like a real (and more expensive) 2" driver.

 

It's a decent speaker, but not a pro box as implied by their marketing department!

[tlbonehead]

Originally posted by agedhorse Just a clarification here, and calling attention to the trend for manufacturer's calling things somethingthat they really are not. Yamaha refers to the HF drivers as 2" drivers, but upon examination of the more detailed specs, they are really 1" exit with a 2" V.C diameter which is nothing like a real (and more expensive) 2" driver. It's a decent speaker, but not a pro box as implied by their marketing department!

Right. The Eminence 2002,Selenium 205 and other $50-60 drivers have 2" voice coils with 1" exits.

[whsjosh]

Originally posted by agedhorse Just a clarification here, and calling attention to the trend for manufacturer's calling things somethingthat they really are not. Yamaha refers to the HF drivers as 2" drivers, but upon examination of the more detailed specs, they are really 1" exit with a 2" V.C diameter which is nothing like a real (and more expensive) 2" driver. It's a decent speaker, but not a pro box as implied by their marketing department!

 

Thanks for clarification. I knew that the HF driver of MS400 isn't really 2" ...

 

Yoshi

[Audioeast]

Originally posted by dvst8tion

 

"Any good 18's that you guys know of around the same price range as the Yamaha's. 3-400 each? That would sound good with the yamaha s115iv's."

 

I have a used pair of EAW SB180's for sale for around $450 each

 

And a pair of B-stock Yorkville TS18H for like $360 each