Members Not Serial Posted January 23, 2007 Members Share Posted January 23, 2007 i made 3 drop snakes recently. damn they cost a lot even though i made them myself. in comparison, i could get some cheepy ones with more channels for a lot less money. i made 2 30' drops, and 1 60' drop. all are 6 channel xlr fan and box. i just figured out that MINUS my time, solder, lettering, misc (fasteners etc) that the 90' drop cost about $170, and the 30' drops cost about $135. jeez. don't tell my wife. BUT...... they have good quality multicore and real switchcraft ends. and they took a long time to build (first one took around 28 hours including mistakes and thinking process - second and third took around 4 hours each) i couldnt find exactly what i wanted in terms of a box (redco has some good ones though) so i made my own out of a 3 gang switchbox cut in half and surrounded by finish pine, painted black. the jack plates are the stainless switchplates with panel mount xlr's. i ended up with exactly what i wanted, which was three 6-boxes in the lenghts i needed. it just amazes me how much it cost. i didnt save ANY money at all by doing this myself. i build this kinds of stuff a lot in my shop ( i rent shop space with a friend) and my friend always asks why i dont go into business and sell this stuff - and i explain to him everytime that there is no way anyone would pay me to build this stuff when they can buy it cheeper somewhere else, and thats just for the parts - not my time. i dunno - i like building this stuff. its tedious repetitive work soldering a million ends, and i have no idea why its so rewarding. should i have bought premade cheeper drop snakes instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nobrainer440 Posted January 23, 2007 Members Share Posted January 23, 2007 I've run into this a few times. I recently built a computer isolation box / rack for recording, thinking that it would cost way less than buying a $100 rack. But after I had it all put together, I realized, "Dang. This cost about $100." Though I don't think anyone makes exactly what I wanted and built. Still, I was amazed at how expensive it turned out. Just goes to show how insanely cheap chinese labor is, even when you can buy things in bulk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unsound Practices Posted January 24, 2007 Members Share Posted January 24, 2007 The only thing I make myself is XLR cables. Saves me about 50% off getting assembled ones, and a few quiet hours with a soldering iron is therapeutic. Thought about doing my own mains distro once... for about 30 seconds before the words "lawsuit" started flashing before me . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 24, 2007 Members Share Posted January 24, 2007 It's not the cheap labor, it's the efficiency of doing this stuff over and over again, havingthe tooling and pre-punched boxes, proper hardware etc. To build a 6 channel snake, including shrinking the fan end takes us about 2 hours from start to finish. We have built hundreds of this kind of product over the years (custom cable harnesses) and yes it takes time to set up for this stuff, it goes pretty fast once you have it down. I recently did a job building up an order of over 500 speaker cables/harnesses and they went pretty fast with 2 of us working on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members milesdf Posted January 24, 2007 Members Share Posted January 24, 2007 Well, I have to say that it comes out alot cheaper when your a college student with a team of other college students doing alot of the grunt work for you and also adapting older stuff for your new products. I just built 3 soca ins and 3 outs and while they probablly took close to 3 man hours a piece, this was split between 2 guys cutting and stripping wire, a couple days later another guy putting on connectors, and weeks later me soldering the connectors. While each one costs about 60$ in brand new connectors, we were able to use our old bundled lighting cable of 6x14/3 SJ as the fanouts. The key to staying sane and keeping a minimal time per piece was using an assembly line proccess for the menial tasks such as cutting, striping, and tinning while spacing out the really tough demanding tasks such as putting a piece of heatshrink tubing onto a wire which then has to be wrestled into solder pots and soldered. Yeah soldering soca connectors is a bitch. Rather do xlrs for 5 hours then one soca. Sorry if that got varied, bottom line is if you can keep a method and recycle some parts you will take less time and save money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wztonz Posted January 24, 2007 Members Share Posted January 24, 2007 should i have bought premade cheeper drop snakes instead? i ended up with exactly what i wanted Seems like you answered your own question. You got exactly what you want, you now have experience building this kind of thing, and you know the quality of the build, and that it will last a good long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boomerweps Posted January 24, 2007 Members Share Posted January 24, 2007 should i have bought premade cheeper drop snakes instead? Yes! I priced out building my own quite a while back. It would have cost me MORE in parts alone than a cheap drop snake or a used one. www.markertek.com sells empty stage boxes. Also kellums grip strain reliefs. I bought a cheap 8x50' with a stage box first but then found several QUALITY used ones that suited me at a good price with a little patience via ebay. Boomerweps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted January 24, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted January 24, 2007 I built (rebuilt) a snake last year using some old multicore and all new parts from audiopile. It cost me more than an equivalent EWI snake, but it has Whirlwind cable, and the labor time was much-needed and therapeutic down-time for me. Plus it justified the purchase of a new heat gun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Not Serial Posted January 25, 2007 Author Members Share Posted January 25, 2007 I'm going to need a new soldering iron soon. the one i have i have had for 20 years and the tip assembly is getting loose. it gets worse everytime i use it, and the last time i finally decided i need a new one. i beleive the one i have is approx 40watt (based on nothing, i havent actually got a clue). if someone wants to point me to a great iron possibly with interchangable tips like spade and point that would be great. something that would last another 20 years and be proffesional grade, not radio shack or walmart grade. (although the one i have now came from radio shack about 1983) ALSO, i only have about 6 inches of "real" solder left (the old kind, with lead mmn mmn smells good) my next spool is the lead free type, and i am scared to death to use it (i've never soldered with lead free). its very thin in comparison to my old solder but i think it will be an appropriate size if i can get used to it. i guess i have to learn all over with the lead free, based on its higher flow point and possible tin whiskers etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ATOMICDOG1 Posted January 25, 2007 Members Share Posted January 25, 2007 yeah, the new solder takes a little getting used to.I have an older Weller adjustable temp solder wand that I really like. It's kind of like this one: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=372-145 (but not exactly). I've had it for about 10 years or so, must have been discontinued or something cuz I can't seem to find the exact model anymore. Oh, and you can definitely switch out ends with these irons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members milesdf Posted January 26, 2007 Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 Why would you go with lead free solder? Is this some new requirment or something? I use this guy alot in the shop where i work: http://circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/7501 I personally own this guy but I dont use him much. The first one i recieved was very damaged, I was able to repair it with the replacment they sent me (they didnt want the crap one back) and so now my dad has one too: http://circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/7508 They both have the same iron, the second one is just oem. It is my opinion that the first one is of better quality. Both are availible in higher power versions for lead free work. Here is the top level menu for this site, you can see many other options there: http://circuitspecialists.com/level.itml/icOid/24 way cheaper then the weller products, and xytronics is regarded as almost the same. american vs. japanese production. I also believe the iron is slightly skinnier at least on the products I have used. Replacement tips are abundant, but honestly i've never had the need for all the connectors ive soldered, YMMV though. hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted January 26, 2007 Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 way cheaper then the weller products, and xytronics is regarded as almost the same. american vs. japanese production. FWIW: I believe Weller is part of the Cooper Group (Boker, Crescent, Lufkin, Micholson, Plumb, Weller, Wiss, Xcelite), and is MFG in Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members milesdf Posted January 26, 2007 Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 FWIW: I believe Weller is part of the Cooper Group (Boker, Crescent, Lufkin, Micholson, Plumb, Weller, Wiss, Xcelite), and is MFG in Germany. edit: http://www.cooperindustries.com/common/aboutCooper/index.cfm cooper starting in ohio, while i cant find anything about weller specifically, if you search for weller on wikipedia the last entry indicates it is an american company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 26, 2007 Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 I also recall Weller being part of the Cooper Tools group. I do not remember where it's manufactured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thunderpaw Posted January 26, 2007 Members Share Posted January 26, 2007 Weller is part of Cooper Tools. I'd like an inexpensive station to replace my Rat Shack one. Those Circuit Specialties units looked interesting, but I don't know anything about them. For guns...I'm still a Weller man. Oh, and Mr. Hellinger, welcome to the forum! Kim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members milesdf Posted January 27, 2007 Members Share Posted January 27, 2007 Emailed cooper/weller last night and just got a response: Miles, Weller products are manufactured in Mexico and Germany. They were USA made until about 2 years ago. So we were both right. Hooray! Weller is part of Cooper Tools. I'd like an inexpensive station to replace my Rat Shack one. Those Circuit Specialties units looked interesting, but I don't know anything about them. For guns...I'm still a Weller man.Oh, and Mr. Hellinger, welcome to the forum!Kim Well, i havent used the circuit specialties model much, maybe 5 or 6 joints on a pcb when I was home, but it has the same iron as the xytronics one i use in the shop. By my estimation probablly around 500 or so solder joints on mostly connectors in the past 6 months i've had it and not a single issue. I really like the feel and size of the iron as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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