Amp and speaker match?

[twostone]

Here's what I got, a Crown XLS 602 amp rating 370 watts per side at 8 ohms. The speakers I want to power with this amp is a pair of Yorkville YX15 monitors. The Yorkville rating is only 300 watts would the Crown amp be to much? Since it's only 70 watts more then the speaker rating would this cause any problems? Thanks

[tlbonehead]

Here's what I got, a Crown XLS 602 amp rating 370 watts per side at 8 ohms. The speakers I want to power with this amp is a pair of Yorkville YX15 monitors. The Yorkville rating is only 300 watts would the Crown amp be to much? Since it's only 70 watts more then the speaker rating would this cause any problems? Thanks

How about a linkie so we can actually see what that number "300" is intended to mean from their perspective?To generalize, if you need over 200 watts through a decent fairly efficient personal monitor cab,something ain't quite right,IMO.

[twostone]

Sorry bout that Tbone they would be used for mains as well. That's the only rating has on the Yorkville website on this model.

[tlbonehead]

 

Sorry bout that Tbone they would be used for mains as well. That's the only rating has on the Yorkville website on this model.

 

Gotcha. I guess we'll hopefully have someone chime in who knows these speakers personally.

[Al Poulin]

Yorkville's ratings are usually fairly conservative. They are 300 watt program speakers, so at 380 watts you should be OK as long as you watch your clip lights and filter out lower frequencies (60 hz and below) if you can. They are actually very well built (in China) and have decent components. They also come with Yorkville's 2 Year unconditional ''even if you break it'' warranty. Al Poulin - Party-Time! DJ Services

[twostone]

Thanks for the info. Al

[dboomer]

 

Yorkville's ratings are usually fairly conservative.

 

 

Is this an opinion or is it based on some data?

 

My small experiences in actually measuring some would lead me to disagree.

[twostone]

 

Is this an opinion or is it based on some data? My small experiences in actually measuring some would lead me to disagree.

 

 

Well Don do you think it would be a bad ideal to power these with the Crown with 370 watts at 8 ohms when the manufacturer just suggested 300 watts.

[Al Poulin]

Is this an opinion or is it based on some data? My small experiences in actually measuring some would lead me to disagree.

 

 

This is based on over 16 years of using almost exclusively Yorkville speakers - powered at program or slightly above and never having one failure. I would not hesitate in putting 300 watts into this particular speaker. I would hesitate in putting 1000 watts in an SP2 however... That is just my opinion and is not meant to insult the way you spec your speakers Don. Al

[Craig Vecchione]

I'd sell the 602 and get an RMX850 or 1450 and power it a little closer to that program rating. We're talking about a 150w rms speaker. 200w would be fine. 300w is okay as long as you protect with limiters, HPF's and perhaps a little Holy water. 370w is flirting with disaster.

 

The RMX is also an all-around better amp with more nice features, a killer warranty, and great customer service. Crown makes some great amps, but the XLS series isn't among them.

[dboomer]

It's generally acceptable to use an amplifier that is 1X to 2X's the FTC or EIA continuous rating of a speaker whose rating is according to AES 2-1984 or EIA RS426A ( or even iEC 268-5).

 

If you don't have those numbers the numbers you do have may mean nothing.

 

I would write to those manufacturers and ask them by what standard they rate their products.

[Craig Vecchione]

It's generally acceptable to use an amplifier that is 1X to 2X's the FTC or EIA continuous rating of a speaker whose rating is according to AES 2-1984 or EIA RS426A ( or even iEC 268-5). If you don't have those numbers the numbers you do have may mean nothing. I would write to those manufacturers and ask them by what standard they rate their products.

 

 

Perhaps seeing how they power their active speakers would lend some insight.

 

Oh wait, those specs are equally ambiguous. :D

[agedhorse]

Perhaps seeing how they power their active speakers would lend some insight. Oh wait, those specs are equally ambiguous. :D

 

Yes, in theory that's a good place to start providing you get real amp power ratings on the powered speaker.

[Al Poulin]

From Yorkville's website :

 

Note - For most applications, a good rule of thumb when deciding what amplifier works best with your particular speaker combination is to compare the amplifier

[twostone]

 

I'd sell the 602 and get an RMX850 or 1450 and power it a little closer to that program rating. We're talking about a 150w rms speaker. 200w would be fine. 300w is okay as long as you protect with limiters, HPF's and perhaps a little Holy water. 370w is flirting with disaster. The RMX is also an all-around better amp with more nice features, a killer warranty, and great customer service. Crown makes some great amps, but the XLS series isn't among them.

 

 

That's a matter of opinion I've thrown quite a few cabs from Peaveys to cheap Legions on this amp and it's never failed or distorted or clipped in the past year that I've gig with this amp. It's Harman company product that also makes Soundcraft,DBX and DOD and a few other products. Sorry to disagree with you. But to my opinion and past experiences with this amp this was a great bang for the buck amp, it beat out a Behringer and other cheap amps in the same price range 300$ NIB w/warranty. I'm not debating that the QSC amp superior. But I wouldn't rag on the XLS series that bad their not as bad as you think.

[Al Poulin]

Alright... here is (in short form) the answer received from Yorkville :

 

''Hi there. Ah yes, the perennial applied-power question. Below are excerpts from a series I'm working on. But the short answer is - The power rating is pgm, if you apply more than that you put the speaker at more risk than you would if you applied that amount or less.

Read on.............''

 

Here is a part of a paper he is working on. I can not share the entire paper (since it is a work in progress) but have selected a few parts I believe are important :

 

 

''Manufacturers test their prototype speakers at different power levels and, using a computer as a rule, come to the highest number of watts they feel the average user can apply to it with the lowest chance of damage, regardless of program content.''

 

 

''Theoretically, if you apply the RMS rating and never let the amplifier clip, the speaker might have a longer life expectancy than if you applied the pgm rating and never let the amplifier clip. But that has never been established for sure since properly operated speakers can survive indefinitely with pgm applied.''

 

''However if you apply let

[Craig Vecchione]

 

That's a matter of opinion I've thrown quite a few cabs from Peaveys to cheap Legions on this amp and it's never failed or distorted or clipped in the past year that I've gig with this amp. It's Harman company product that also makes Soundcraft,DBX and DOD and a few other products. Sorry to disagree with you. But to my opinion and past experiences with this amp this was a great bang for the buck amp, it beat out a Behringer and other cheap amps in the same price range 300$ NIB w/warranty. I'm not debating that the QSC amp superior. But I wouldn't rag on the XLS series that bad their not as bad as you think.

 

 

 

I didn't say it was a bad amp, I said the RMX series were superior.

[twostone]

Thanks again Al,the main reason I'm asking. We got a out door gig coming up this spring with a huge stage and were gonna be using full stack guitar cabs and a bass stack and Roland V drums I want to add side fills. That's the reason I need to know if the YX15(loaners) could be powered by the Crown XLS it's the only amp we'll have for side fills we might go with maybe a pair of cheap PV PR15's(loaners) which we know can handle that amp. But I have access to the YX15's which I'm assuming would probably sound better for side fills. Just might stick with the PV's dunno yet we're still debating on which cabs to use. BTW Graigv I own AB1100A amp just as good as QSC or better.

[dboomer]

 

Alright... here is (in short form) the answer received from Yorkville :   ''Hi there. Ah yes, the perennial applied-power question. Below are excerpts from a series I'm working on. But the short answer is - The power rating is pgm, if you apply more than that you put the speaker at more risk than you would if you applied that amount or less. Read on.............''   Here is a part of a paper he is working on. I can not share the entire paper (since it is a work in progress) but have selected a few parts I believe are important :     ''Manufacturers test their prototype speakers at different power levels and, using a computer as a rule, come to the highest number of watts they feel the average user can apply to it with the lowest chance of damage, regardless of program content.''     ''Theoretically, if you apply the RMS rating and never let the amplifier clip, the speaker might have a longer life expectancy than if you applied the pgm rating and never let the amplifier clip. But that has never been established for sure since properly operated speakers can survive indefinitely with pgm applied.''   ''However if you apply let

[Al Poulin]

Sorry to quote the whole post. Does anybody else besides me take one look at this and read it as coming from the marketing dept ... not from an engineer? .. ...speakers are tested using a computer??? That's awfully simplified ...amps are "as-rated?? as-rated as what? I thought that was Al's question Al ... if you haven't left out a lot of qualifying text ... this is almost laughable

 

 

The text from which I am quoting is a power ''Myths and Truths'' Mike at Yorkville is currently working on. He sent it to me to give me some basic guidelines and popular misconceptions about matching speakers and amplifiers. It is a paper meant for everyone - hence the simplicity. Mike has often answered some fairly complicated questions I have had in the past with some pretty impressive and detailed answers that I doubt a simple marketing guy could. (crossovers, horn padding etc...)

 

My question about the NX55Ps was the following : '' I have owned my NX55Ps for over a year and although they are said to be powered at 550 watts each, I do not believe it to be a continuous 550 watts. If this were one of your AP amplifiers, would it be rated at 550 watts continuous average power? Thanks for the clarification.'' His answer, amps are as rated, seems to mean this is really a 550 watt amplifier but with very active limiting. I would have liked him to elaborate but....

 

Both his answers still arrived within 2 hours of me sending him the Emails, which I feel is very impressive and shows a commitment to excellent customer service. I will try to ask him a more complicated question next time and ask for a more detailed answer... Al Poulin - Party-Time! DJ Services

[Craig Vecchione]

The text from which I am quoting is a power ''Myths and Truths'' Mike at Yorkville is currently working on. He sent it to me to give me some basic guidelines and popular misconceptions about matching speakers and amplifiers. It is a paper meant for everyone - hence the simplicity. Mike has often answered some fairly complicated questions I have had in the past with some pretty impressive and detailed answers that I doubt a simple marketing guy could. (crossovers, horn padding etc...) My question about the NX55Ps was the following : '' I have owned my NX55Ps for over a year and although they are said to be powered at 550 watts each, I do not believe it to be a continuous 550 watts. If this were one of your AP amplifiers, would it be rated at 550 watts continuous average power? Thanks for the clarification.'' His answer, amps are as rated, seems to mean this is really a 550 watt amplifier but with very active limiting. I would have liked him to elaborate but.... Both his answers still arrived within 2 hours of me sending him the Emails, which I feel is very impressive and shows a commitment to excellent customer service. I will try to ask him a more complicated question next time and ask for a more detailed answer... Al Poulin - Party-Time! DJ Services

 

A fast but useless answer is still a useless answer. He didn't answer your question at all. It was a direct question, I believe..."is the power 550w continuous", correct? That seems a simple yes/no, not a few paragraphs of drivel.

[Al Poulin]

 

Thanks again Al,the main reason I'm asking. We got a out door gig coming up this spring with a huge stage and were gonna be using full stack guitar cabs and a bass stack and Roland V drums I want to add side fills. That's the reason I need to know if the YX15(loaners) could be powered by the Crown XLS it's the only amp we'll have for side fills we might go with maybe a pair of cheap PV PR15's(loaners) which we know can handle that amp. But I have access to the YX15's which I'm assuming would probably sound better for side fills. Just might stick with the PV's dunno yet we're still debating on which cabs to use. BTW Graigv I own AB1100A amp just as good as QSC or better.

 

 

 

Both cabs should offer a comparable performance since i believe they are pretty similar spec wise (power handling, efficiency and max SPL) and feature similar components. 15'' woofers and Peavey's 1.4'' horn in the PR or a Celestion 1.4'' neo horn in the Yorkville. They will obviously sound different but I don't believe one has a distinct advantage over the other (other than the PRs weighing slightly less). If you feel more comfortable with the PRs extra 100 watt handling, then go with that one and have less worry during your performance... If I'm not mistaken the PR15 is 2 DBs less efficient than the YX15 (depending how the specs are measured of course) which may contribute to it's slightly higher power handling. However, I'm not sure since no specs on efficiency or frequency response are currently listed for the PRs on Peavey's website...possibly because of the switch to the new, lighter weight neodymium woofers. Al

[Al Poulin]

 

A fast but useless answer is still a useless answer. He didn't answer your question at all. It was a direct question, I believe..."is the power 550w continuous", correct? That seems a simple yes/no, not a few paragraphs of drivel.

 

 

 

The ''drivel'' was in response to my first question of ''is it OK to power the YX15s with 380 watts from an XLS602'' to which it seems there is no 100% true answer due to the many variables... For the NX55P power question, ''the power amp is as rated'' answer, I don't know??? He goes on to state that the unit does meet it's 125DB max output spec. I'm still convinced the 550 watt spec is peak since pushing the unpowered NX35 with between 300-400 watts would get you that 125DB spec (calculated).

 

I do stand by my comment that Yorkville speaker specs are fairly conservative compared to what I have seen from many other companies in the last few years. Yorkville has always only indicated a program spec on their cabs. They could post a peak number... However, such a number is really very useless except to impress first time buyers who don't necessarily know what the different numbers mean. This is dangerous since these same buyers may believe the speakers should be powered with this peak power number.

 

 

Comparing the YX15 and PR15, I could see someone say : '' Wow, this one only handles 300 watts while this one can handle 800. It's more than 2 times louder!'' Just an example, but I'll bet it happens often enough. I guess the bigger number does have the potential of attracting more sales which is, unfortunately, what it is all about.

 

Before it is pointed out, I do not deny this might be what Yorkville is doing with their powered speaker ''program'' specs. I will try to get more precise clarification on this next week.

 

Al Poulin - Party-Time! DJ Services

[dboomer]

depending how the specs are measured of course

 

Here's my whole point (I'm not picking on anyone specifically ... just the general climate on the board). If you want to "learn" what's happening with your equipment you'll have to put in the small amount of effort to understand the terms and the methods used to arrive at them. If you don't really care then "good old boy" answers I guess will be fine.

 

With speakers if you don't know the conditions for the test you could be off by 10 dB in sensitivity, 6 dB for power handling and 1/2 an octave for frequency response.

 

I'm happy to let people make their own choices but it drives me crazy when people offer up opinions as fact not because they have actually heard the gear they are talking about but when they make a decision based on specs ... that they don't even understand.

 

But they it's your money.

[prosigna]

I'm happy to let people make their own choices but it drives me crazy when people offer up opinions as fact not because they have actually heard the gear they are talking about but when they make a decision based on specs ... that they don't even understand.

 

Slow down big guy.

 

Al's statement could be construed as anything but opinion. It is impossible to establish a fact as "usually fairly conservative". You challanged his opinion and asked him to produce facts. He did so. You were less than impressed with the information provided so he agreed to seek more quantifiable and verifiable information next week.