Another newbie question about PAs. . . .

[redlineverdict]

Hey guys-

 

Like a lot of others on here, I've come here as a last resort to get some honest answers about a PA setup. Here are the pertinent facts:

 

THE BAND:

Loud 4-piece aggressive rock band. Three vocals. Bassist is leaving, and taking the PA with him.

 

THE ROOM:

16'x20'

 

THE EQUIPMENT:

We've got two Yamaha cabs with a 15", a horn, and a tweeter. My best guess? They're rated for 300w or so-one of them isn't working, but I'll deal with that. We have one small 12" floor monitor that is probably 100w-150w.

 

THE BEST-CASE-SCENARIO:

We need to be able to here all three vocals clearly over each other. Preferably, we'd like two mains and two monitors. But we're stupid when it comes to this stuff, so some other permutation of that might work better. It would be nice for the mixer to have at least 8 channels.

 

THE BUDGET:

As you've guessed, as slim as possible.

 

THE QUESTIONS:

WTF? What should we look for? Powered mixer? Separate mixer and separate power amp?

 

THE REWARD:

The eternal admiration of a group of guys you've never met, and probably will never meet. Satisfaction of job done well. Shout-out on a Myspace page.

 

THE END:

of the most annoying post you'll probably read today.

 

Thanks for making it this far. I appreciate all comments, even the ones that call me a newb (or n00b), and berate me for asking the same question that you guys answer all the time. Please feel free to assert your superiority over us, especially if it helps us arrive at a better solution.

[twostone]

Well I'm in 2 bands one's in a old geezer hippie band and all we ues is a pair PV PR15's powered by my Crown XLS 602 and 2 PV 12" floor wedges powered by a PV CS600 amp it's plenty for vocal and a little guitar thru a small PV 14 mixer we don't mic the drums or bass just vocals and guitars. Now the other band with younger hippies and more up to date rock tunes more like Godsmack style we're using about 6ooo watts but that powers subs mid/highs and monitors and mic everything and usually by the end of the night my ears are fatigued. It's funny about 3-5 months ago I wasn't in no band now managed to be in 2 bands. But the old hippie band is more less the old timers to reminiscing their youth again.

[GCDEF]

 

Hey guys- Loud 4-piece aggressive rock band. We need to be able to here all three vocals clearly over each other. As you've guessed, as slim as possible. What should we look for?

 

 

The volume knobs on your amplifiers would be the first thing to look for. After that, seems like a small-medium powered mixer would be what you need. Avoid the bottom of the line junk like Kustom or Nady. Peavey, Yamaha, and Carvin all have products that would do the job for you.

[guitarharv52]

It's all in the money.A powered mixer such as the Yamaha 512 would do exactly what you want,BUT, if you have a slightly larger budget get a mixer and a power amp.From that you can build a larger system.If you want to keep it simple for now,GCDEF is right.Stay away from the bottom of the barrel brands.Yamaha and Peavey powered mixers have a lot of success stories.

[prosigna]

THE ROOM: 16'x20'

 

:eek:

 

TURN DOWN YOUR AMPS!!!!!!

 

You are in that small a room blaring at full tilt. My ears would be bleeding and yours are being damaged. If you need mains and floor monitors in that small a room you are just too loud.

[pro1-54]

Yorkville has a good reputation for small PA systems but may not be available in your area.

[flanc]

As others have mentioned, the Peavey PR12/Pr15 is about as cheap as you can go new and still have decent/good sound for speakers.

 

If you don't aspire to play bigger gigs that would require subs and a more robust setup, I'd go with a powered mixer. Again, someone mentioned Peavey, Yamaha and Carvin as good choices. You can save some money hear on used Peavey's as they are pretty well built and plentiful in the used market.

 

If you think you might grow this project into bigger venues. You might want to go with discrete, seperate pieces instead of the powered mixer.

 

Pehaps the most flexible option for you is to use powered speakers and an unpowered mixer (Peavey,Yamaha, used Mackie etc). This will allow you to easily add on later if your requirements require a larger setup. The downside here is cost. You'll not likely find many decent, used powered speakers as they are still a fairly recent trend. For new powered speakers, the Peavey PR12p is still the cheapest, decent alternative. Yorkville, FBT, RCF, EV and JBL make nicer alternatives at twice the cost.

 

http://www.zzounds.com/item--PEVPR112P

[joel77]

You mention a 16' x 20' room. Is this for rehearsals or are you needing a PA to play out?

 

Joel

[redlineverdict]

 

You mention a 16' x 20' room. Is this for rehearsals or are you needing a PA to play out? Joel

 

 

Just for rehearsal.

 

Also, we do need to turn down considerably. Thank you for your advice, and concern for my ears. If it's any conciliation at all, we use earplugs.

 

I looked at the Yamaha EMX512SC. Looks pretty good. Can I drive the aforementioned mains and a set of monitors with that mixer? Is the mixer section of it any good?

[Craig Vecchione]

Rehearsal is about learning to play as a group. Save the rockstar ego for the gigs. If you can't hear yourselves and each other, you're wasting your time. You want to hear the mistakes so they can be corrected. You wear earplugs...and you all have control over your volume, you're not at a concert.....what's wrong with this picture???

 

For a room that small, one good powered speaker on a stand pointing towards you all should be plenty. If it's not, you haven't turned down enough. $550 or less will get you a Samson db500a which will handle a room this size with ease. A Peavey PV10 will do mixing, last forever, and has some decent features. Get a 31-band EQ, DOD makes a decent one for like $110....so you don't have to go Behringer to save money.

[redlineverdict]

 

Rehearsal is about learning to play as a group. Save the rockstar ego for the gigs. If you can't hear yourselves and each other, you're wasting your time. You want to hear the mistakes so they can be corrected. You wear earplugs...and you all have control over your volume, you're not at a concert.....what's wrong with this picture???

 

 

Save the ego for the gigs? WTF? Rockstar ego? Am I reading this wrong? I asked a question about a PA setup.

 

I wear earplugs because it is a small room, and I don't know about you, but cymbals don't sound so great to my ears in such a tiny room. It cuts out high frequencies, and still allows me to hear everything else.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

Save the ego for the gigs? WTF? Rockstar ego? Am I reading this wrong? I asked a question about a PA setup. I wear earplugs because it is a small room, and I don't know about you, but cymbals don't sound so great to my ears in such a tiny room. It cuts out high frequencies, and still allows me to hear everything else.

 

 

 

I'm referring to bands that 'have' to rock hard no matter what...practice, rehearsal, gigs. I've read countless threads where the band, or one member, won't turn down even though they rent a 10x10 storage space to rehearse.

 

If you guys are already as low as possible, great, that's the point we've been making. Regarding cymbals, you can use rubber damper pads to greatly reduce their volume in these situations. A good zero-dollar stand-in...just hang a dish towel over it. Yeah, the drummer will bitch, but it's just for rehearsal.

[GCDEF]

 

Save the ego for the gigs? WTF? Rockstar ego? Am I reading this wrong? I asked a question about a PA setup. I wear earplugs because it is a small room, and I don't know about you, but cymbals don't sound so great to my ears in such a tiny room. It cuts out high frequencies, and still allows me to hear everything else.

 

 

You did say that you play loud and that you need to turn down. The way you said you wear ear plugs implied it was from excessive volume, not to protect against cymbals. Not that this is a solution for everyone, but our drummer has an electronic set he uses for practice just to help keep the volume down. On stage, he's an animal, but practice doesn't need to be loud at all.

[guitarharv52]

 

Just for rehearsal. Also, we do need to turn down considerably. Thank you for your advice, and concern for my ears. If it's any conciliation at all, we use earplugs. I looked at the Yamaha EMX512SC. Looks pretty good. Can I drive the aforementioned mains and a set of monitors with that mixer? Is the mixer section of it any good?

 

 

Yes you can run mains and monitors.There is a switch that you set to I think it is main/mon.Please don't take offence when we talk about turning down.I have been playing in bands a long time and without taking this this advice you may EVENTUALLY learn this will be a big asset to rehearsal.Playing lower you will pay more attention to the little things that will make you tighter when you do play out at stage volume.It may mean the difference between a garage band and a stage band.

[prosigna]

 

Save the ego for the gigs? WTF? Rockstar ego? Am I reading this wrong? I asked a question about a PA setup.

 

 

You said you would like (2) mains and (2) monitors plus you wear earplugs and you are in a 16x20 room. I am not sure why mains and mons are needed. The idea of monitors is so the band can hear while the audience listens to the mains. If you are rehearsing you just turn the mains toward you and use them for yourselves. (2) Mains and (2) mons would be overkill for a 16x20 room. A single powered speaker would take care of 3 vocals in a small room. The gear you said you said you have should work just fine. Unless I'm confused and the Yamaha cabinets are what the bass player is taking with him.

 

If you are looking to build a PA to do small shows that is a different question. The responses you have seen here are just in regards to practice in a 16x20 room. I have practiced in small rooms with full drum kit, electric and acoustic guitar, and bass and still heard the vocals just fine without a mic. A little help for the vocals is understandable but 2 mains and 2 mons doing just vocals in that little room is outrageous.

[paulo]

Just get a secondhand Yamaha powered mixer and you'll be in business - good for rehearsal and small gigs and well able to power your monitor - PLUS it'll match your speaker cabs so if you want to sell it on in the future you've got a small Yamaha PA rather than some mix & match job.

 

Also, don't worry about the guys who tell you to turn down. They always do that! (I don't think they really like rock music - it's a bit hard to control!)

[Craig Vecchione]

 

Just get a secondhand Yamaha powered mixer and you'll be in business - good for rehearsal and small gigs and well able to power your monitor - PLUS it'll match your speaker cabs so if you want to sell it on in the future you've got a small Yamaha PA rather than some mix & match job. Also, don't worry about the guys who tell you to turn down. They always do that! (I don't think they really like rock music - it's a bit hard to control!)

 

 

I love rock music. I like rock music done well even more. Play the show as loud as you can get away with, as long as it sounds good. But rehearsing at ear-splitting levels is just stupid, wannabe wanking.

[paulo]

Tastefully done.

[Craig Vecchione]

moi?

[tlbonehead]

 

Save the ego for the gigs? WTF? Rockstar ego? Am I reading this wrong? I asked a question about a PA setup. I wear earplugs because it is a small room, and I don't know about you, but cymbals don't sound so great to my ears in such a tiny room. It cuts out high frequencies, and still allows me to hear everything else.

 

You don't have to put a dent in your cymbals every time you hit them, especially in practice. If 100 watts and a couple of decent wedges isn't enough volume for practicing you have volume issues. I can't imagine why anyone would practice loud enough to need earplugs.