PA Install in Climbing Gym - Advice needed

[belayslave]

Hi all,

I'm been asked (by the owner/friend) to spec an AV system for his climbing gym.

The Venue is split in to three parts.

1. Main area - biggest

2. mezzanine - upstairs bouldering area

3. New area - slightly smaller then Main area, no pic available.

 

They want multiple source audio available for all areas (same audio feed to each area at any 1 time). Also a video feed for DVD, vid-clips from computer, TV and Cable TV to screen in the main area, a announcement Mic over all 3 areas.

 

The aim is a centrally controlled system (i.e. behind front counter), with audio coverage needs of 'being able to hear it above the roar of all the punters - but not too loud as to not allow people to hear each other from the top of the wall to the ground'.

 

The video part is simple and i've got that sussed but would appreciate some advice on the Audio side.

 

They currently have 2xspeakers (unkown specs but loud enough to cover main area just), 1 x Kenwood 100W AV receiver, Sony CD/DVD player.

Here's my plan:

Introduce a Tascam AV452 (http://www.tascamcontractor.com/products/AV-452.html) as the hub for all.

 

From the 'Meeting Outs' (RCA) go to the Kenwood AV amp and old speakers to cover the New room (area 3).

 

From the Line Outs on Tascam go to either a) 2x Mackie SRM450's, or b) 2 x Yamaha C115VA's... can you suggest an appropriate amp for the Yamahas?? Would either of these options in your opinion cover the area (main area - Area 1) sufficiently?

 

From the Speaker output (A & B) of the Tascam go to speakers for mezzanine floor (area 2). Again, suggestions of what speakers to use would be great for here. Max. power output of each speaker output = 100W (EIA, JAITA) @ 8ohms. would this power cover area 2 sufficiently?

 

So the above three paragraphs are the main things i'm asking for help for

 

Other things to think about (well for me anyway). Type of mic to use. I'd love them to use an SM58, but i think a mic with switch would be better, so maybe Sennheiser E815S-X.

 

Computer required for hosting digital music and playing digital video clips. either buy a sound card or just use headphone/line outs. Screen routed through RGB2 input/thru on Tascam.

 

Oh, and the other question is if you can reccommend a medium to big sized LCD screen which will be fairly resistant to a fair amount of dust and grime. i.e. cope with living in a climbing gym for a while.

 

 

I know it's a long winded post and thanks all for sticking with it. Advice and reccommendations would be greatly appreciated.

 

Many thanks.

CH.

[Singin' Dave]

Wow.... big job. Hire a pro. Anything less would be a disservice to an establishment that has already invested a lot of money on the property by the looks of it.

[BillESC]

You would be well served to look at EV's Evid series of speakers and strongly consider using them as a 70 volt system.

 

With a distributed 70v system you'll be able to use multiple smaller speakers to achieve the appropiate sound levels as apposed to just a couple of boomers to cover such large areas.

 

Whirlwind has just the mixer for your application.

 

 

Switch between three sets of RCA phono type composite video and stereo audio inputs with push buttons located on the front of the unit (video and audio with the MPM1V, audio only with the MPM1). Each input has its own volume control and there's a master volume and four band tone control section.

 

In addition, there are Priority Line and Priority Mic inputs, each with their own volume controls. Connect the jukebox to the stereo Priority Line Input and it will automatically override and mute the selected audio input when the music kicks in and ramp that input back up when the jukebox is done.

 

Then, connect a mic to the Priority Mic Input for paging (microphone not included). Just speak into your mic and the MPM1 immediately lowers or "ducks" the volume on the other inputs, including the Priority Line Input, and then gently ramps it back up when you're finished. Ducking amount is adjustable to 0dB (none), - 20db (lowered into the background) or -70dB (off). Internal jumpers allow reversing of these priority assignments so that the Priority Line Input mutes the Mic input - useful for emergency announcement capability.

 

An internal jumper allows you to switch off the ducking feature to one output side only. This allows you to keep the background music constant in the dining room while still ducking and paging in the waiting area.

 

Need more inputs? Connect an external stereo mixer like the Whirlwind MIX-5s to the MPM1's stereo buss.

 

Need to feed more zones? Connect a Whirlwind DA2 to the output and feed 4 stereo zones or 8 mono zones, each with its own volume control.

 

The output section features stereo RCA phono connectors and balanced XLRs. The XLRs can be set to stereo or mono operation with a rear panel button. Use the XLRs when set to mono to drive 70V line amps for ceiling speakers while keeping the RCAs in stereo.

 

The MPM1 and MPM1V are housed in a 1U steel chassis with removable rack ears.

[Rbts]

yea,

 

I was just going to say, the best way to get that good "livey feel" to the sound without being "too loud" is to use lots of smaller speakers, rather then two big ones. It does look like a cool classy place. Do it right.

[belayslave]

Hi Bill, a 70V system does make a lot of sense. To be honest i hadn't thought of it as an option before but it could well be a goer.

What kind of Amp should i be looking at for using the Evid 4.2's?

 

Do you know if Whirlwind products are available in Australia?

 

Would something like this be suitable?

http://www.australianmonitor.com/power.html#AMIS120P%20Spec

it's 120W, has 70V output.

Max load 40 ohms @ 70 Volts. So if running the Evid 4.2's in parallel (nominal impedance of 8 ohms) how many could i run off this amp?

my mind always gets messed up working out ohms speakers and amps:confused:

 

Thanks for the advice guys, pls keep it coming

 

Actually i've just found this amp to:

http://www.australianmonitor.com/power.html#480p

Maybe a better choice?

[BillESC]

Michael,

 

When working a 70v distrbuted system forget all about ohms and concentrate on watts. Using the Evid 4.2 as an example, you have a choice of taps: 7.5w, 15w, and 30w.

 

The rule of thumb for installers is to devalue the amps wattage rating to 80% so an amp with a wattage rating of 300w would be rated at 240w, with the Evid 4.2 speakers tapped at 30w you can have 8 speakers in parallel to the amp.

 

We recently did a 44,000 sq. ft. YMCA and used 46 Evid 3.2 speakers on an ISA 1350 amp which delivers 1500w at 70v. We tapped most of them at 5w since it was for paging and background music only and a few in the gym at 10w.

[Gregidon]

I think that you need to get a professional to do this job. Look at the amount of money you have already invested in that place, why skimp on the sound? Do it once, buy once, cry once.

[prosigna]

I would call some pros to give you quotes. And the lowest bid is not the best option.

[agedhorse]

You will need an engineer to evaluate the structure if you plan on hanging any substantial weight, as it looks like a minimal structure as far as loading is concerned.

[belayslave]

Hi Bill,

Just to clear up my name is Chris.

Michael (a.k.a. Stav) is the guy who said the quote above his name in my signature.

 

Thanks for the explanation of the 70V. Makes sense to me now. I'm thinking we'd be wanting to tap them at 30W? as it's more then just background music we're after.

 

Agedhorse - Although chances of us flying anything of substantial weight is slim, we're well aware of the structural limitations in this building. You do make a valid point that it's worth checking. But there's people climbing up and down, falling etc everyday, not to mention the tonnes of steel and wood weight in the climbing wall structures, so it's all been throughly tested.

 

I believe that the owner is also going to get some other quotes and reccommendations for the building, but he know's i'm involved in the industry and asked if i could throw together some options.

 

Cheers,

CH.

[agedhorse]

The tons of wood and steel in the climbing structures appear to be supported in the vertical dimension by the ground. The reason I mention this is because it's a lightweight truss structure with rather large tributary area, meaning that there is already a large load per unit of structure. That's what the photo appears to show anyway.

[BillESC]

That's one of the reasons I suggested the Evid series, with the 4.2's weighing in at only 8.6 lbs., the rig below which offers 180 degree coverage will weigh under 20 pounds. No problems flying it.