Members J. Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 Chalk this up as a lesson learned the hard way. I went on eBay to buy some cheap 3.5mm stereo --->dual RCA cables for some home audio tinkering because I didn't feel like buying the $35 Monster Cable version of the same at Best Buy. I found some cheap ones from a power seller with good feedback so I bought a pair. While I was preparing to check out of the auction I noticed the seller also had banana plugs for sale. Since I was putting together an entry-level 7.1 channel system in my apartment I figured I'd pick some up since it would be a lot easier than sticking the stripped wire in the tightly spaced binding posts on the back of the receiver. Well, the 3.5mm-->RCA cables were fine. Cheap, but all I needed. The banana plugs on the other hand are completely useless. I was a bit excited when I got them, but my excitement turned to exasperation when I realized they were completely unusable. You see, there was nowhere to attach the wire. No tabs, no screws, nothing. It though maybe I could stick the wire in the hole in the center of the metal portion but it was blocked. As a last ditch effort I tried to drill a little hole in the center of the plug, but that only resulted in the complete structural failure of the metal piece itself. In anger I tried sticking the stripped wire through the end of the plastic shell and screwing the metal part back in, essentially forcing the wire to make a connection that way (never mind the strands of copper wire sticking out of the end). I thought this would work until the cheap fragile plastic shells cracked under the pressure. Crap! I remember Audiopile/W.M Hellinger speculating awhile ago that some cheap foreign copies are made in factories where they don't even know the purpose of what they're producing. They know they're copying something, but they have no idea what that "something" is actually used for. This had to be the case with these uber-cheap banana plugs. They look like banana plugs, but the similarity ends there. I ended up just stripping the wire and doing the connections on my receiver the old fashioned way and that's fine, but if I really wanted banana plugs I should've just gotten the inexpensive ones from Parts Express instead of these pieces of crap. Oh well, at six bucks the lesson was relatively cheap! Here are a few pictures of the plugs. You can see what I'm talking about. Unfortunately I don't have a pic of the one I destroyed with a drill bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Prog Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 It looks like you need to solder the wire into the cup of the metal contact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ashivraj Posted February 23, 2007 Members Share Posted February 23, 2007 Yeah, I had this very same problem (and associated frustration) with that very same plug a couple of weeks ago. Solder into the cup... but make sure you've already put the plastic sleeve on the cable! AS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 23, 2007 Members Share Posted February 23, 2007 That's a solder-cup style. 800 degree chisel style soldering tip, and solder w/ a good flux core like Kester 44 in .062" will work nicely. Strip back about 1/8" and tin the wire first, then tin the solder cup then heatthe solder cup while bringing the wire into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members J. Posted February 23, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 23, 2007 Well now I feel like an idiot. I'll try the soldering. Hopefully it'll stick to the pseudo metal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Glyder Posted February 23, 2007 Members Share Posted February 23, 2007 Duh!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 23, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted February 23, 2007 Depending upon what sort of plating they've used (the Chinese-made-without-knowledge-of-intended-use theory applies here) you may experience even more frustration trying to solder them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members moody Posted February 24, 2007 Members Share Posted February 24, 2007 Duh!!!! Not really nice assuming that he really doesn't know. I've had a bit of trouble with those plugs myself and was really worried that soldering them would last about 5 minutes. (3 years later and still going strong - though the other ends sometimes have to be pushed in so that they grip). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JohnnyGraphic Posted February 24, 2007 Members Share Posted February 24, 2007 In my home theater system, the best banana plug connector I've found is the (dare I say it) Monster Cable plug. It's really a neat design. You strip back a little less than 1/4", push it thru the center of the back part of the plug. Then, you splay the bare wire over the outside of the center. The banana part screws down on top of the bare wire and acts as a strain relief and keeps the connection nice and solid. Here is the link: http://monstercable.com/productDisplay.asp?pin=1272 Johnny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 24, 2007 Members Share Posted February 24, 2007 Pomona "MDP" the gold standard in bannana plugs. Not for 12 or 10 gauge though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Not Serial Posted February 24, 2007 Members Share Posted February 24, 2007 10 gauge wire is best used with jumbo trs jacks that anyone can make out of normal trs jacks. runs, hides, ducks, snickers - seriously though do not beleive what i just said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 24, 2007 Members Share Posted February 24, 2007 10 gauge wire is best used with jumbo trs jacks that anyone can make out of normal trs jacks.runs, hides, ducks, snickers - seriously though do not beleive what i just said You almost got me Coaster. You missed the gold plated part though;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted February 25, 2007 Members Share Posted February 25, 2007 Pomona "MDP" the gold standard in bannana plugs. Not for 12 or 10 gauge though. The Neutrik people have a New-Trick banana plug: http://www.neutrik.com/content/products/detail.aspx?id=210_1272219949&catId=CatMSDE_audio These will accomodate up-to 0.156" diameter conductors at the termination points, which would technically handle 8ga. cable, although there might be issues with insulation and jack mass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 25, 2007 Members Share Posted February 25, 2007 The Neutrik people have a New-Trick banana plug:http://www.neutrik.com/content/products/detail.aspx?id=210_1272219949&catId=CatMSDE_audioThese will accomodate up-to 0.156" diameter conductors at the termination points, which would technically handle 8ga. cable, although there might be issues with insulation and jack mass. What aboout the overall cable diameter? Classic example of a manufacturer having not assembled a physical cable with that claim... #14SJ is the largest cable that can be accomodated by the strain relief clamp!!! Also, there's roughly 1/2" clearance between the pole surfaces, meaning there's no way you are going to physically install even #10's without exceeding clearance limitations with the conductor's basic 300 volt insulation system. Another wild-assed claim by a manufacturer who just as often misses the mark as hits it IMO. The hole may be big enough, but nothing else is. For #14 and smaller though, I think it's a great option. What's it cost??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted February 25, 2007 Members Share Posted February 25, 2007 What aboout the overall cable diameter? Classic example of a manufacturer having not assembled a physical cable with that claim... #14SJ is the largest cable that can be accomodated by the strain relief clamp!!! Also, there's roughly 1/2" clearance between the pole surfaces, meaning there's no way you are going to physically install even #10's without exceeding clearance limitations with the conductor's basic 300 volt insulation system. Another wild-assed claim by a manufacturer who just as often misses the mark as hits it IMO. The hole may be big enough, but nothing else is. For #14 and smaller though, I think it's a great option. What's it cost??? Oh, I don't even know if Neutrik offers cable sizing recommendations. The product doesn't seem to have much of any mfg. tech specs available. I just measured the termination holes, and determined it might be possibly possible to stuff possibly 8ga. conductors in the holes. I agree, there might be significant insulation and jacket size issues that could limit the reasonable application to a smaller gauge cable, particurally with a jacketed cable. I assembled EWI NNT-1102 cable into one of these connectors. The EWI NNT-1102 cable is a 2 conductor 4sq. mm cable with a over-all outside jacket OD of approx. 0.460" and conductor insulation OD's of approx. 0.157", which could possibly be somewhat similar to some types of 11-2 SJ cables. Here are a couple pictures of one of these Neutrik banana plugs assembled on the NNT-1102 cable: Side view: Top view: Comments: This finished assembled cable does seem to be a-ok, fine. The assembly process was a little daunting and I believe this cable in this connector is the reasonable upper limit of over-all cable mass to tastefully assemble on this end. The fairly large termination holes did make it very easy to insert the fairly finely stranded 4sq. mm conductors into the holes. The straight blade set-screws lended themselves fairly well to getting seemingly sufficent tightening with "the right" screwdriver, although I would have preferred socket head (Allen head) set screws. Assembling the contact assemblies into the connector body was a little difficult, but after figuring out that the contact assemblies need to be rotated just-right to fit all the way through the "front" connector body holes, and after I removed (snipped) just a bit of jacket off the bottom "front" of the cable to accomodate the Phillips head connector body screw thread housing, then the cable, contact assemblies, and body assembled just fine. The cable seems to be secured into the body nicely since I can't work it out with reasonable (or lots) of effort, and it wasn't a problem to lace the insulated conductors inside of the connector body. To assemble, I stripped back the cable jacket approx. 1" over-all, and then stripped the conductor insulation back about 1/2" leaving approx. 1/2" of insulated conductors in the body. I inserted the stripped conductors into the contact bodies to the hub of the insulation, tightened the set-screws and snipped off the extra conductor. I don't know what the cost of this connector is. Jesse, one of this forum's members (I believe) sent me two samples and suggested I check them out. I did... and what I've posted here is most of what I've checked out so-far. They seem like a nice Banana plug and do seem to accomodate larger gauge cable than the Pomona ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 25, 2007 Members Share Posted February 25, 2007 I don't see the strain relief wedge installed? Did it come with one? Mark, remember you are a really experienced cable fabricatior, as am I. We can do things the average person with even reasonable skill has little hope of doing without little bits and frays to cause future problems. I agree it's a great looking connector, but not quite as Neutrik might suggest. It would be super for standard 14-2SJ with a single wedge section strain relief, and maybe even 12-2SJ but I don't know if a strain relief wedge would fit. It would be a good choice for wiring up large amp racks with big amps where 12ga would be a better choice though, using the thinner jacketed install speaker cable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted February 25, 2007 Members Share Posted February 25, 2007 I don't see the strain relief wedge installed? Did it come with one?Mark, remember you are a really experienced cable fabricatior, as am I. We can do things the average person with even reasonable skill has little hope of doing without little bits and frays to cause future problems.I agree it's a great looking connector, but not quite as Neutrik might suggest. It would be super for standard 14-2SJ with a single wedge section strain relief, and maybe even 12-2SJ but I don't know if a strain relief wedge would fit. It would be a good choice for wiring up large amp racks with big amps where 12ga would be a better choice though, using the thinner jacketed install speaker cable. Yes, the Neutrik banana plug did come with a strain relief wedge, and no I didn't install it. There wasn't room... I don't think. I'll fuss with it some later and see what it takes to install the wedge. Right now I have more important things to do. It's Saturday night and Liz and I are fixin to watch a movie... nothin better than fresh popcorn with lots of butter. Anyway... With this cable, an absentee wedge didn't seem to be an issue since the cable seems to be well secured in the housing without it. And... no, I wouldn't recommend an average DIYS person with average DIYS tools and chops to attempt to assemble this large of mass of cable into these ends. I've proven it is tastefully possible, but then other men (better than me) have proven it's possible to put a man on the moon. I haven't found Neutrik has made much of any suggestions or claims concerning this end, but if they have, I'd like to read-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thunderpaw Posted February 25, 2007 Members Share Posted February 25, 2007 I had discovered these, quite by accident on Rapco cables. At the time, Rapco supposedly had the exclusive on them from Neutrik for a period of time, so I ordered from Rapco. Best banana plug I have used for heavier cabling. The Pomona's are fine for most tasks. One thing I liked about the Neutriks is the ability to stack connectors with larger cabling and still have full engagement. You must keep an eye on the strain relief wedge...if you turn your head for a second, they run right out of the room. Kim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 25, 2007 Members Share Posted February 25, 2007 With reasonable sized cable, the Pamonas also stack nicely. Another serious problem with the really big cable is the added weight on the binding post jacks, they can be damaged pretty easily with some models. The plastic housing can break where it forms the insulating shoulder as it goes into the chassis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thunderpaw Posted February 28, 2007 Members Share Posted February 28, 2007 The plastic housing can break where it forms the insulating shoulder as it goes into the chassis. +1. I've had this happen with some import Pomona copies. Kim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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