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Taking a show that's too big for you to handle.


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I'm in a situation where a promoter requested a quote for a 3 stage festival with roughly 24 bands at a skate park. 1 stage is out doors with only local bands, the PA requirement is just some speakers on stands and a pair of monitors, easy enough. The inside 2 stages need full production, subs, tops, 3-4 monitors each. The promoter estimates 400-600 people. My PA systems are modest, but I've done a few 500+ capacity gigs with my LS800P/EF500P rig (1ea/side). I've got a second pair of subs (B-52 LX18) and I can get a hold of another pair of EF500Ps, and I've got pleanty of wedges (4 nx550ps, and 4 passive wedges, plus two 2x15"s for drum fills), but then I don't have the gear for the outside stage.

 

Load in and load out happens all on the day of the show. I have to hire 2 guys to run FOH for the other stages, and a couple of stage hands to work the change overs, and I'll have to rent some gear to pull it off. I haven't submitted a quote yet, because I'm not sure if I should pass or not. I've done multistage festivals before, but only provided 2 stages (one full production and the other PA on a Stick type set up). I don't know what to charge for this type of thing? Show time is noon-10 or 11pm, the outside stage ends at 5pm.

 

Any of you guys have suggestions? I value the opinions of the pros on here, and I figure many of you were in my shoes at some point. Thanks in advance for your help.

 

ps. I don't know who else they are getting quotes from. I did ask if they have a budget and they're response was "we're trying to keep costs as low as possible" which doesn't sound too good right off the bat.

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Do you have a good working relationship with other local sound providers? As in, sub-hire a smaller or similar sized company for one of the stages and let them handle that stage entirely instead of hiring mixers and renting gear. Figure their cost and add 10-15% for you for that stage since you are giving them the work and taking any heat IF something goes wrong (be prepared to provide guidance with that).

 

Boomerweps

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I don't really know any other local sound providers. The promoter seems to be a small time opperation doing mostly legion hall shows, so I don't know how much money there is available for this festival. Wether we sub-contract or not, what seems like a good price to charge for this event. Or with the gear we have for the main stages should we pass on the show. Single 18s and 15+2 per side is a bit light for 400-600, but we have done it before. As you can tell I've got mixed feelings about taking this gig. It would definately be good for my company if all goes well, or we could go down in flames trying to pull off more than we can chew.

 

First we need to figure out the cost for something like this, so what do you guys think?

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Another suggestion is that you could rent the rig for the 3rd stage and you provide the labor. Make sure you factor in whether you're transporting/setting up the rental gear. The same spec goes for the rental gear (add about 10-15% to your cost). You won't make as much on this stage but to secure the contract it may be worth it.

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well for starters you should develop a formula for calculating prices.

 

these are just some examples with the ranges I've seen people use, it all depends on what your market is doing at the time and how much you want the gig / are competing with other people.

-5-15% of the market value of the gear you own and will use.

-100-200% of the rental cost of the gear you rent, to cover the rental and get some off the top.

-$.30/mile - $400 altogether for transportation to and from the event and for rentals, this could include just fuel or you could take into account the wear and tear / maintenence on the vehicle.

-$$$ for wages for everyone working the event (you have to estimate obviously), this could include just thier hourly rate or you might want to take into account benefits or insurance, really depends on your situation.

-$0-$$$$ for the client being hard to work with.

 

I would develop a formula for yourself with ranges of the lowest you would work for up to a more then ideal pay in order to ensure you won't lose money here. Then if they want to bargin you know not to go under your break even point. Also you may want to take into account exposure from the event. See if perhaps you could bargin in some advertising for your company on programs/flyers while still breaking even.

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I would at least find out what the "promoter" is thinking. You may be wasting your time worrying about it if he's figuring 3 digits (and I wouldn't rule it out). You'll also need quite a contract with consideration for weather since one stage is outdoors and plenty of power. Don't let it be your fault they dont' have the juice to pull this thing off.

 

I would also agree that getting at least one other provider in the mix is a good idea. It sounds like you really can't quite pull this off equipment wise and that's the easiest thing to fix. The logistics of getting good helpers and handling problems as they come up, and wow will they with 24 bands of varying experience, is the real issue.

 

Make sure too you are "paid in full" when you pull up to the venue. No need to risk a "we didn't have as good a night as I'd thought" hussle. If the weather is bad the event will likely bomb. Be sure you're not on the short end of that stick.

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My credentials:

I have been running sound as a hobby for a little over 15 years. I have run basement bands through nationals (Merl Haggard, 311, etc). My current rig is a 12 box EV QRX rig, 48 channels FOH and mopnitor, 10 biamped mixes including sidefills.

 

My opinion:

NEVER take on a gig that is too big for you. Sub out the largest stage, rent an extra stack per side for the stage you can handle and sub out the little stage if you have to. If the money isn't there to support it, then let it go. The gig you lose won't kill you, the gig you can't handle but take anyway will.

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Ed: It's a good thing that you're concerned up-front. I see it often that folks get into situations that are way over their heads... but they seem oblivious until the anvil of reality lands on their head. I remember a show a few years back, where the promoter was sitting on the front of the stage after the show... getting blotto drunk. Liz and I were packing up. As we were finishing up, I asked the promoter how he thought the gig went (and to hit him up for the 2nd 1/2 of my pay)... he was mumbling something about $80K (or some such figure in that ballpark). Anyway... he was just sitting there trying to figure out how he was gonna break it to his family that he'd just lost $80K on this show... $80K barrowed money... barrowed by hawking his house, vehicles, etc...

 

I never saw him again... never saw the 2nd 1/2 of my pay either.

 

Anyway: Listen to your inner-self on this gig. If you're truly concerned about how it's gonna turn out, this might be a show you'll be better off just buying a ticket for if you want to experience it... and let somebody else get the lesson.

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