Members session_of_jam Posted February 26, 2007 Members Share Posted February 26, 2007 I've got some time on my hands, and a bunch of cables that have failed, or shorted or what ever. I'm thinking of cutting things up and making some patch cables and stuff. So I need to remember how to solder. I haven't done it in a while, and I was never very good anyway. Anyone know of a quick online refresher course? And another question....I have a pair of 12ga. 100ft speaker cables with 1/4" ends. I'm thinking about cutting them in half, and making two sets of 50 footers, one with 1/4" ends, and the other with Speakon connectors. Will this work? I'm assuming the cables are the same right? Then I'm gonna have to buy some Speakon ends....any recommendations? Probably just something from Musicians friend or something. I can wire/solder these up myself too right? All comments and info appeciated. Thanks guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nobrainer440 Posted February 26, 2007 Members Share Posted February 26, 2007 Try Parts Express for your connector needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 26, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted February 26, 2007 Neutrik speakons attach to the wire with setscrews...no soldering needed. Google "soldering tutorial". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members session_of_jam Posted February 26, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 26, 2007 Neutrik speakons attach to the wire with setscrews...no soldering needed.Google "soldering tutorial". Thanks man. Do speakons use regular speaker wire though? I thought I read they have double conductors or something....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bigmike216 Posted February 26, 2007 Members Share Posted February 26, 2007 Speakon's can use regular speaker wire. I get my connectors from Redco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Imwithpepe Posted February 26, 2007 Members Share Posted February 26, 2007 mcm electronics has some good deals every now and then on speakon and 1/4 ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members belayslave Posted February 26, 2007 Members Share Posted February 26, 2007 Try here...Soldering --> sorry, no offence intended. Just like taking the chance when it's given Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members session_of_jam Posted February 26, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 26, 2007 Thanks for the help guys. Does anyone know what real advantages there are to speakon connectors? I'm gonna make some cables because we had a situation that would have gone better if we had had some. Most of my gear has jacks for speakon, so I might as well have some. But what is the actual advantage? I know there is the idea that it is a better connection.....more rigid and won't pull out easily, but is that it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Not Serial Posted February 26, 2007 Members Share Posted February 26, 2007 they do not pull out and they do not short when inserted/removed. also they can have more than two connections; 1 example - biamped tops on one 4-core cable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members preacherman672 Posted February 26, 2007 Members Share Posted February 26, 2007 They are also airtight if you are in a situation where that counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members session_of_jam Posted February 26, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 26, 2007 They are also airtight if you are in a situation where that counts. Is this in reference to speaker cabs loosing compression through other jacks such as 1/4 inch ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members preacherman672 Posted February 26, 2007 Members Share Posted February 26, 2007 Is this in reference to speaker cabs loosing compression through other jacks such as 1/4 inch ? Quarter inch jacks can leak and the seal will be lost in a box that contains a sealed chamber. This has the most pronounced effect in sealed boxes (duh) and horn loaded enclosures. Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boomerweps Posted February 26, 2007 Members Share Posted February 26, 2007 Another speakon advantage is that the cable is held tightly by it's sheathing using a 3 pronged collet. A 1/4" TS plug relies on the soldering for both electrical contact AND mechanical joint strength to hole the wire to the connector. The cable sheath clamping is one of the reasons the screw terminals work well. On soldering, remember, low wattage works best on small wires and plastic held contacts. Light pre-tinning of wires and solder cups seems to always work best for me, especially since the solder has the cleaning flux in it. And there's a reason for the "solder stations" having a damp sponge. Wiping the heat oxidized tip on it removes the oxidation. Boomerweps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members session_of_jam Posted February 26, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 26, 2007 sounds like good advice, thanks Boomer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members session_of_jam Posted February 26, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 26, 2007 ......On soldering, remember, low wattage works best on small wires and plastic held contacts. Light pre-tinning of wires and solder cups seems to always work best for me, especially since the solder has the cleaning flux in it. And there's a reason for the "solder stations" having a damp sponge. Wiping the heat oxidized tip on it removes the oxidation.Boomerweps A couple more questions... Should I pre-Tin the ends even when using Neutrik ends with screw terminals? And the wet sponge thing has been mentioned on more than one soldering tutorial, but I thought we were always told that electricity and water don't mix? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted February 26, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted February 26, 2007 A couple more questions...Should I pre-Tin the ends even when using Neutrik ends with screw terminals?And the wet sponge thing has been mentioned on more than one soldering tutorial, but I thought we were always told that electricity and water don't mix? It doesn't mix if it creates a short or it causes your body to become a conductor to ground. But that's a rather distant possibility considering the heating element should not be electrically "hot", and you probably won't solder with the sponge resting on a grounded object. Do NOT pretin the ends when using a Speakon. Mechanical clamps don't work and play well with tinned wire...the solder "cold-flows" or moves slowly and causes the connection to continually loosen. Just twist the ends enough to gather all the strands and be carefull not to get any loose ones... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 26, 2007 Members Share Posted February 26, 2007 For wire, the largest, highest power that get's the job done quickly is the best for the insulation system. I solder (most) wiring that's 22ga or larger at 800 deg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bigmike216 Posted February 27, 2007 Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 I solder (most) wiring that's 22ga or larger at 800 deg. Me too. I also use a 60w iron.. but it's part of a real soldering station Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 27, 2007 Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 Solder pot w/ flux pot is ideal for tinning leads if you do enough quantity. Very quick and efficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bigmike216 Posted February 27, 2007 Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 I'll second that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted February 27, 2007 Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 Using solder sized right for the application helps a bunch... because, using the right sized solder feeds are the right speed and applies an appropriate amount of flux. For approx 22ga. wire (mic line), I use .050" dia. solder. For 16 - 12ga. wire (speaker cable), I use .062" dia. solder. I prefer Kester 63/37 #58/285 63/37 is the lead/tin alloy#58 is the core percentage (I believe) size285 is the flux type, which in this case is a mildly activated non-corrosive rosin type Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bigmike216 Posted February 27, 2007 Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 I use .032 and .020 sized solders.. It's all a matter of preference I guess! 63/37 for sure. A eutectic alloy flows better and doesn't have that pasty state Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 27, 2007 Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 I also prefer the larger gauges and eutectic alloy. Plenty of flux too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted February 27, 2007 Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 I use .032 and .020 sized solders.. It's all a matter of preference I guess! Beside the feed rate of those smaller sized solders not meshing well with my soldering style when soldering cables, I also have a problem with "solder droop" with those smaller sized solders. I oftentimes use the solder spool as a "third hand"... with the solder spool "holding" the solder while I tin. I have the conductor, or cable in one hand, and the solder iron in my other hand. I bring the conductor and solder iron "to the solder"... and I depend on the spool to "hold the spooled out solder" in an easily accessable place while I tin. With thinner solder... I have to keep stopping and spooling out more solder and if I spool off more than just an inch or two, the spooled out solder falls flat on the solder bench and won't "keep it up" until I'm finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted February 27, 2007 Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 63/37 for sure. A eutectic alloy flows better and doesn't have that pasty state FWIW (general information on the subject): Solder has 3 states: 1) Solid 2) Plastic 3) Liquid With tin/lead eutectic solder (63/37), the solder will start to freeze at approx 250deg C (482degF). This solder will remain in a semi frozen (plastic) state till it reaches 183deg C (361deg F). This time and what happens during the plastic state is critical to the quality of the solder joint. Ideally, you want solder to be in the plastic state for the shortest time possible, since the longer it takes to cool, the courser the grains of the crystal structure will be (like the difference between granite and obsidian rock). Also, a long cooling time adds to the possibility of movement in the joint during cooling, which can result in a "cold joint". Note: Eutectic solder is the alloy where both metals (tin and lead) liquefy and/or freeze at the same time. With higher percentage lead solder, the lead will freeze before the tin... increasing the plastic state cooling curve. which is why a non-eutectic solder tends to be more prone to pasty looking joints. (I don't know if I explained that very well). Anyway: If you're getting "pasty" looking joints, this could be a combination of reasons/problems: 1) You're soldering at too low of iron temp, or you don't have enough thermal mass, or not a quick enough recovery iron... so you're not getting the solder fully liquid. Kester recommends a tip temp of 750deg F for typical rosin core solders. Suggestions: Get a better soldering iron and/or tin the tip, and/or pretin the work to get better/faster heat transfer from the iron to the work. 2) Too long in the plastic state or movement in the joint during the plastic state. Suggestions: make a solder jig and/or use heat sinks to wick heat away from the joint faster. 3) Overheating the work: Solder that gets too hot will oxidize. Oxidized solder will have a dull gray/grainy look. Suggestions: Typically overheating the work is due to having too small wattage of iron or too cold of iron, or bad tip tinning, or just bad solder chops... work on lining up your ducks so you can get in and get out a lot faster. Final soldering of the joint should take just a matter of seconds... and if it's taking longer than that, you're in there too long. 4) Consider changing solder... as bigmike suggests, the eutectic solder goes from liquid to solid at more of a "good solder job" friendly manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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