Members danbuc Posted February 26, 2007 Members Share Posted February 26, 2007 Hi everyone - new to these parts and new to live sound. I'm a musician who has limited knowledge of live sound. My question - What are the steps to EQing the FOH. Do you ring it out, or use an analyser? Or run recorded music thru? I've got a 31 band. The system is in a church - modern facility. Right now its set flat. Am using a Mackie 2404 mixer. Just never was taught what is the best method. Right now, the system sounds harsh, cold, like it needs more low mids.I guess just experimentation is in order?Thanks, Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mattrw89 Posted February 27, 2007 Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 IMHO, a good place to start is getting the room flat using pink noise and an analyzer. The Phonic PA-2 is a good, relatively cheap real-time analyzer. After saying that I must admit that a flat system, depending on your speakers, can sound just as bad as it did before, but at least you will now have a starting point. From there I would put on the best recorded and the most familiar (to you) cd that you have. Listen to the cd everywhere... Reference monitors, in your car, an existing PA, wherever... Become very familiar with it. Then, once you know how it should sound (or at least how you think it should sound) try and mimic that sound in your new venue. Go for the shiny, but not harsh, highs and the full deep lows all while keeping the low-mids tight. Warning: DON'T just boost all of the low end to +12 if you need more low end. Your system may not just have it or you may need to turn up the sub amp. Warning: Try and not do ALL boosting or ALL cutting... Try and "center" your changes around zero so that you are doing a roughly equivalent amount of cutting and boosting. If any of this is wrong please correct me! But of course there are different philosophies... Thanks for reading. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Not Serial Posted February 27, 2007 Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 on any normal occasion i will usually run my 31 relatively flat. i will pull problem freqs as necessary. some freqs i pull in the situations i am in: 120 (occasional)160680800 (rare)5k i'll pull out 3db sometimes of these, sometimes different freqs depending on location. i just dont particularly love 5k, so that usually gets dumped by 1db or so. depending on the room/system this particular freq could be 4k or 6k. beta58s can make me more aware of this situation. the older i get, the flatter i run my eq and the more i arrange the system to accomodate the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members danbuc Posted February 27, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 Thanks fellas! Keep em coming!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gspointer Posted February 27, 2007 Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 if you are an install, have you considered having a company tune it? Who did you buy it from? They should be able to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 27, 2007 Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 usually, the least amount of eq required to do the job is best. Don't fret over the small stuff, those may be measurement anomolies. Speaking of anomolies, note that a graphic eq and RTA only look in the frequency domain in that they can not correct for response issues due to time domain problems. To try to do so will usually make the system sound worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jess Posted February 27, 2007 Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 Hi everyone - new to these parts and new to live sound. I'm a musician who has limited knowledge of live sound. My question - What are the steps to EQing the FOH. Do you ring it out, or use an analyser? Or run recorded music thru? I've got a 31 band. The system is in a church - modern facility. Right now its set flat. Am using a Mackie 2404 mixer. Just never was taught what is the best method. Right now, the system sounds harsh, cold, like it needs more low mids. I guess just experimentation is in order? Thanks, Dan What speakers are you using? If you think you need more low mids could be you need different speakers?? Are you running subs with this rig? Try running a CD that closely resembles the live music that will be played, then try tweaking your channel strip EQ first before you reach for your Graphic. Jess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted February 27, 2007 Members Share Posted February 27, 2007 What speakers are you using? If you think you need more low mids could be you need different speakers?? Are you running subs with this rig? Try running a CD that closely resembles the live music that will be played, then try tweaking your channel strip EQ first before you reach for your Graphic. Jess... Sounds backwards to me. It makes no sense, IMO, to adjust your main EQ to a tweaked channel strip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members danbuc Posted February 28, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 28, 2007 Thanks everyone for the suggestions so far - I'm using 2 -JBL 18" subs and flying 2 EV 15"w/horn(don't know models off hand) I will try the CD technique first. Sounds like the best approach to start. The previous soundman had a BBE sonic maximizer hooked up - anybody like these? I trust my ears to get a good quality sound, just didn't know if there was a standard EQ setup procedure to use. Thanks, DAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gspointer Posted February 28, 2007 Members Share Posted February 28, 2007 put me down as the first vote against the sonic maximizer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted February 28, 2007 Members Share Posted February 28, 2007 put me down as the first vote against the sonic maximizer.Dang! I wanted to vote against it first! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jess Posted February 28, 2007 Members Share Posted February 28, 2007 Sounds backwards to me. It makes no sense, IMO, to adjust your main EQ to a tweaked channel strip. That's what i said?? Maybe wrong choice of words?? What i meant was set FOH graphic flat, play CD and if any adjustments are needed to play with the channel strip eq first before using the GEQ, Otherwise what frequ may be needed on a certain instrument may not be needed on others, so adjusting your mains eq for eg may get you that extra low/mids your looking for but it may turn your vocals into sounding like a pack of wild geese a honkin . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted February 28, 2007 Members Share Posted February 28, 2007 But when I choose that first CD, I am choosing and listening to something that allows me to hear the true response of the system hooking up to that room. I want the channel; strip flat until I feel like I've dialed in the initial main EQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jess Posted February 28, 2007 Members Share Posted February 28, 2007 But when I choose that first CD, I am choosing and listening to something that allows me to hear the true response of the system hooking up to that room. I want the channel; strip flat until I feel like I've dialed in the initial main EQ. Fair enough...I see your point. I guess we all have different ways we like to do things. Jess.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JohnnyGraphic Posted February 28, 2007 Members Share Posted February 28, 2007 I think the channel strip EQ is a quick and dirty. It's a good way to get a rough idea of where you need what, especially for a CD. I would also look at the other components of the system. Microphones, speakers other processing. Honestly, I would get rid of the sonic maximizer. Then, using the channel strip, find out what your system needs to sound pleasing to your ears. Is it high end? Mids? Lows? Then, use that as a basis for what you do to your graphic. Remember, just a smidgen here & there is all you will really need. Once you get mics up, you'll find the needs of your graphic will change. Certain frequencies will sound good and bad to you. The best thing is to start messing around. Usually a few db will do. +/-3 db for the most part. Hope this helps. Johnny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 28, 2007 Members Share Posted February 28, 2007 Always the graphic first for system/room eq and these parameters will affect EVERYTHING passing through the system. Then use the channel eq to fine tune for each specific input. I don't know anybody (successfully) eqing the room with the channel eq. That's like polishinbg an entier truck with a cotton swab. Not very effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JohnnyGraphic Posted February 28, 2007 Members Share Posted February 28, 2007 Always the graphic first for system/room eq and these parameters will affect EVERYTHING passing through the system. Then use the channel eq to fine tune for each specific input. I don't know anybody (successfully) eqing the room with the channel eq. That's like polishinbg an entier truck with a cotton swab. Not very effective. I agree with you, however, my suggestion is just a 'get an idea' with a few twirls vs. hunt n' peck on the GEQ. Once you get an idea of what the system needs, then, flatten the Channel strip EQ, go back to the GEQ to fine tune. It may not be "the" method, but it is an alternate that works especially for the newly initiated ones. Johnny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members preacherman672 Posted March 1, 2007 Members Share Posted March 1, 2007 Always the graphic first for system/room eq and these parameters will affect EVERYTHING passing through the system. Then use the channel eq to fine tune for each specific input. I don't know anybody (successfully) eqing the room with the channel eq. That's like polishinbg an entier truck with a cotton swab. Not very effective. I THINK (I know it's dangerous ) what is being talked about here is using the sweepable mids on the channel strip to quickly identify the problem areas in the sound. After they are identified, use the house EQ to adjust those frequencies and set the channel strip flat. Repeat as necessary. While this is not my preferred method I have used it on occassion. Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MartÃn Almazán Posted March 1, 2007 Members Share Posted March 1, 2007 These days Smaart seems to the the preferred analyzer for field use, and, specifically, sound system tuning. Always use your ears though, if you use an analyzer. In fact, listen to the system before the analyzer readings influence you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted March 1, 2007 Members Share Posted March 1, 2007 Has Behr come out with Stuupid, their equivolent version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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