Members Not Serial Posted March 11, 2007 Members Share Posted March 11, 2007 i have two s15V wedges and i love them. i know there are better wedges out there but i really have had a lot of great use of these, and no one has ever had any complaints being on the band side of these things. but what about the other side of the room - the audience side? i am in need of an improvement on my "pa on a stick" system and have been noticing the yammy equipment is a fair price. i realize it will never compete with the srx setup but i dont need it to. yesterday i showed up to a gun fight with a plastic spork; i had an audience of 2200 people and a "pa on a stick" with 450 watts with 3 bands using 16 channels. it was a big kick in the ass for me, and i longed for the srx setup or even the EV tops/subs. something inbetween these systems would have fit nicely between the price point/hairpulling feedback mess i experienced yesterday. it was ugly and i still have a headache from it. literally i am not kidding. a pair of s215v is a little over a grand. this could be a possibility if it is a major improvement over the JRX series of disaster speakers roughly the same price range. i cant do JRX, its just too ugly sounding. but if the yammy 215v sounds anything like the 15V wedges it would work. no one around here has anything yamaha but the wedges, i have never heard it. i'm thinking out loud here, bear with me. i cant do what i did yesterday again. i need a middle ground - i cant haul out the srx system for the price point of pa on a stick gigs, and i need a better pa on a stick system for gigs like yesterday. my pa on a stick works great for audiences of 100-250 and groups of four-five performers (6-8 channels). beyond that forgetaboutit. the srx or ev systems work great for audiences that are large and bands in the 24-32 channel range. how is the yammy club V PA stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Not Serial Posted March 11, 2007 Author Members Share Posted March 11, 2007 i found the club thread - i'm reading it now .....and it seems they are not liked. damn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DJ Swydez Posted March 11, 2007 Members Share Posted March 11, 2007 I use the Yamaha S115v Speakers for DJing and they are great for that! I'm not sure how well they work for live sound gigs tho... Good Luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted March 11, 2007 Members Share Posted March 11, 2007 I have 4 of them that I throw up for many kinds of gigs. That';s a beter way to go than the dual 15, single horn Yamaha cabs. two more horns does a lot toward smoothing out the high end and coverage. 4 of the Club Vs will do a reasonable amount of kick and bass on mains too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted March 11, 2007 Members Share Posted March 11, 2007 Let me give you a little friendly advice, given the kick in the ass you received. When you go to a gun fight with less than a gun, you will continue to get your ass kicked, and kicked and kicked. If the rules of engagement are "guns required" and you show up with a spork, a plastic stick, a knife, a pitchfork or whatever inbetween, you are going to lose every time. If they will not pay for the proper tools to complete the job in a (even minimally) satisfactory manner then you are setting yourself up to fail. This is a self-defeating proposal, and if you continue to allow yourself to be used in this manner, then you will continue to feel the way you do. Bring the correct system (SRX is a good approach) and charge accordingly. IF there is only a budget for speaker on a stick, then politely walk away until they decide otherwise. Otherwise you are just racing to the bottom, instead of striving for the top. Remember, even if you win the rat race, you are still a rat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted March 11, 2007 Members Share Posted March 11, 2007 wow, I read again..did he say 2200 people? I misread at first as 220...holy crap..never mind my advice if that's the kind of gigs you're going to encounter Coaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hamer Posted March 11, 2007 Members Share Posted March 11, 2007 I had a pair of club 15s just sold them,they never gave me trouble very dependable well made ,very heavy, and sounded just ok,not bad by all meens,just ok,they did the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nin4269 Posted March 11, 2007 Members Share Posted March 11, 2007 I work with two bands that use the club system. Single 15" tops with dual 18" subs. The sound is good and the coverage adequate. I'd say the coverage is about 250-300 for "bar volume." In other words, loud and punchy near the band for dancing, and the fans, quiet enough to speak your drink order in the back. I couldn't scarcely guess how many club speakers it would take to adequately preform for 2,200 people. Well, I guess I could guess, six tops and six-eight subs per side, maybe? I'm thinking rock music. Seems at that point a higher caliber system would be more cost/weight effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted March 12, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted March 12, 2007 It sounds as if you need either the SRX level of quality, or perhaps the MRX level. Either will do better than the Clubs, which are by no means a bad speaker...for their price they are hard to beat. But 2200 people is a pretty damned big room, and one pair of anything...even SRX...would be hard-pressed to really rock the house. Agedhorse is right....bring what is needed for the price that is paid. You'll find it's very hard to make a profit in many shows. You may find that on average, what you have if fine for your area. I don't do many gigs...haven't been out in over a year...because there simply aren't bands or venues willing to pay what I would need to justify the gear I bring. I could get some 'stick' speakers' and probably work every weekend, but I don't enjoy mediocrity and that's essentially the gig I would be working...mediocre bands playing to indifferent 'audiences'. I don't need the money that badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Singin' Dave Posted March 12, 2007 Members Share Posted March 12, 2007 You do yourself no favors by playing though a bad PA to big crowds---- talk about bad publicity! For cost, storage, set-up/tear down and transport reasons, any PA that I provide should cover about 300 people MAX (maybe 500, but that is a LOT of people actually) . To me this entails 2-4 good mains, 2-4 good subs, ~4 monitor wedges, enough power to run them, a board big enough to handle micing and monitoring the entire band, and processing. Maybe lights too, depending on venue. Any more than 300 or so, and I'm renting a sound company and building the cost of PA rental into my fee. Just too much hassle for a bad return above that mark for me. But for your upgrade - Stear clear of dual 15" mains - as stated above you are asking for muddy low mid heavy sound unless you spend big bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Not Serial Posted March 12, 2007 Author Members Share Posted March 12, 2007 i appreciate the responses and agree also. this is unargueably not the system to run at that event. but it used to be. we had no idea our numbers would be so high this year at this event. in the past the numbers have been in the 700 person range, which means that at any given time there may be 40-75 people listening to the band or even in the band area. this year was different, and i have no concrete idea why. we plan our events based on past experience and reviews, and since this system worked well last year we saw no reason to change it. we were wrong. the audience quickly outgrew the pa's capability and also the rooms occupancy level - i had people standing next to me behind the foh table for over an hour before the crowd became manageable. there are no seating arrangments as it is just a large open room for standing (some metal folding chairs available) and there was no plan in place for dealing with over occupancy (no security, no bouncers, no police, nothing). we are discussing the possibility (unlikely) to relocate the event to a larger facility for next year - we have had to do this in the past. the bands were actually very happy with the sound system and the event as a whole, which suprised me. one band wrote to my boss and commended me on my performance and patience in dealing with the band. i wonder what level they are used to, but i dont really want to know if they thought this went well. one thing you all need to understand about this gig is that is was never intended to be a 'big rock show'. its an all ages show at a public event run by the city, and the music is only a small part of the event. if i show up with the SRX or EV system and 24,000 watts for a 150 audience member show, the public gets upset at how their taxes are getting spent (and they really do) - and they are right in a way. the bigger PA is seen as an extravigance and not as a neccesity (like pa on a stick). public entities have a budjet and we can only spend so much on x or y and thats all we can do. we did what we thought was best for this event and we were wrong. the larger systems would have worked better. the other thing you need to understand about me is that i do not own my own PA. i run the cities (pa on a stick), the states (SRX), and a privately owned system (EV). i dont want to own my own PA. i run around with enough of them as it is, i dont want to pay for the trailer, the garage or storage facility, upkeep, the truck or any of it. i am not a production company, i dont want to be a production company, i work for the companies. and they pay me enough and often enough so that this is all i do now and have for quite a while. sometimes i can use one of the systems in the wrong location but it is difficult and costs money (all state/city transactions must be legit and presentable to the public). the SRX system works great at the locations i need it. the EV system works great at the locations i use it. but right now i need to improve the cities' PA on a stick. and its never going to be a big rock show, ever. AND all i usually have available is a 20A outlet, maybe 2. most of the time i cannot change this, although for 3 or 4 events out of the year i hire an electrician to run a 240v setup. the most i can ever ask for from this system is to hear the vocals over the crowd, and some instruments during solos. if i need a larger system than that i can hire one of the other two setups. most often this pa on a stick is used for simple, very simple things. if i explain slowly and carefully i can make improvents on the system. i have been able to talk them into purchasing the wixwiz3, the club V wedges, storage capability and enough cables to run the thing as a whole. but now i need to push for amps and speakers as this is the weakest area. a qsc 3602 and two high power tops are likely more than this system will ever be. less than that will have to be acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted March 12, 2007 Members Share Posted March 12, 2007 Maybe renting for the few times a year that this sized system is necessary? That may be a better way to spend the city money. At least get something that will do the job but not have to store it or maintain it, or buy it in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Not Serial Posted March 12, 2007 Author Members Share Posted March 12, 2007 there is of course that point, but if we rent out the larger systems 4 times a year we could instead spend that money on improving the existing pa. i've been dealing with this issue for a while, its a stumper at times and a little strange the way the transactions work in these cases. so far things overall have improved - and thats good. some new gear, some rented. if i could get two good tops and around 2k watts it would be set for a while. at the time we purchased the mixwiz3 we also had a pair of ev tops and a crown xti amp on the table but for whatever reason it couldnt go through that way. got the mixwiz though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted March 12, 2007 Members Share Posted March 12, 2007 Inventory multiple items of exactly the same box, so that you can scale up and down without a ton of interface and mechanical (stacking/stand or connector and configuration) issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted March 13, 2007 Members Share Posted March 13, 2007 i am in need of an improvement on my "pa on a stick" system and have been noticing the yammy equipment is a fair price. i realize it will never compete with the srx setup but i dont need it to.yesterday i showed up to a gun fight with a plastic spork; i had an audience of 2200 people and a "pa on a stick" with 450 watts with 3 bands using 16 channels. it was a big kick in the ass for me, and i longed for the srx setup or even the EV tops/subs. Yea... I'd agree you're in need of an improvement. If you're pulling down 2200 attendance events, you should be supplying the tools for the job, otherwise, in the future you'll only be offered the jobs that you do have to ways and means to cover (if that). Good press is all-but non-existant. Bad press is always front page news. FWIW: I would NEVER consider covering a 2200 attendance event unless I have the gear and manpower on-hand to cover a 2200+ attendance event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Not Serial Posted March 14, 2007 Author Members Share Posted March 14, 2007 me either. the stage event was planned for 75-125 persons. the fact that more showed up is beyond my control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted March 15, 2007 Members Share Posted March 15, 2007 me either. the stage event was planned for 75-125 persons. the fact that more showed up is beyond my control. Well... that's a horse of a different color. Usually it goes the other way... planned (hoped) for attendence of 2,500... gate reciepts of 378. But, I've been in that position a few times... planned for a crowd of a couple hundred and there's a sea of folks stretching out a couple of city blocks store-front to store-front... and you're just trying to keep your cool and kick it out the best as possible. But, I will say that on those occasions, I'm damn glad I brought the headroom I didn't think I'd need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Not Serial Posted March 17, 2007 Author Members Share Posted March 17, 2007 i just spent two hours typing my proposal/wrap up for the event. its several pages long, but basically i told them what happened, what went right, and what went wrong. i also outlined potential solutions based on the various sized systems i use. we'll see what happens. they have already sunk $1500 into this sytem so far this year (mixwiz, 6 booms, cables, grundorf etc), and that was like pulling teeth. out of the 2200 people at the event, 3 complained about the lack of volume in the system. 2 out of 3 bands wrote to my boss to commend my actions. i got a 10% raise, retroactive from jan 1st out of the deal. and yes, i can put up with this {censored} if i make $300 a day doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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